So how did he get in? Are all the security measures worthless?

[Manc Skipper]

I can't believe I'm getting accused of blaming the schools.


I asked out of CONCERN. I have two nephews that live in my house who go to school still. I have four other children in my close family attending school. I was concerned to find out if other schools had similar security measures and if so why they failed and how.

I wasn't blaming anyone, I'm looking for what went wrong so we can hopefully improve school security.

Cruz didn't need to register a private sale, didn't need a license to carry, and broke no Florida gun laws till he started shooting. There's a starting point.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

This could all be solved if the kids had guns to protect themselves --NRA

 

[Linc]

I can't believe I'm getting accused of blaming the schools.


I asked out of CONCERN. I have two nephews that live in my house who go to school still. I have four other children in my close family attending school. I was concerned to find out if other schools had similar security measures and if so why they failed and how.

I wasn't blaming anyone, I'm looking for what went wrong so we can hopefully improve school security.

I have to press a button to be let into school during school hours, though not afterwards.
This means there is no protection from guns at our sporting and other after-school events.
Even though they know me, I still have to be pre-approved to guest teach and coach during school hours.

I fully support Home Rule of schools to do what they will with staff carrying guns.
I've taken considerable grief from both 'sides' for this stance.

The problem here is how do you protect the students when they are let out of school.
That's something you could look at the next time you're at a school when kids are dismissed.
It is not a settling feeling ...

 

[Perotista]

For over ten years I haven't been to a school where you could just walk in. They keep the doors locked and there are barriers, and someone has to "buzz" you in.

Most schools have a "resource officer" (aka cop) on site during school hours... some have two. Armed.


So how did this guy just waltz in with an AR15 and nobody knew until he started shooting? Nobody prevented him entering. Apparently no armed school resource officer intervened during the shooting.


Did this school just not have such security measures, or did they fail? If the latter, how?


I really, really want to know, but such details are scant in such shooting incidents.

Probably depends where you live. I live out in the country, but the grand kids go to school in a small town. No cops, one just walks into the school and go to the office. Now in the big cities such as Atlanta I've heard they have all that stuff. But Atlanta is crime ridden and shootings happen in that city every day.

 

[JuiceJS]

For over ten years I haven't been to a school where you could just walk in. They keep the doors locked and there are barriers, and someone has to "buzz" you in.

Most schools have a "resource officer" (aka cop) on site during school hours... some have two. Armed.


So how did this guy just waltz in with an AR15 and nobody knew until he started shooting? Nobody prevented him entering. Apparently no armed school resource officer intervened during the shooting.


Did this school just not have such security measures, or did they fail? If the latter, how?


I really, really want to know, but such details are scant in such shooting incidents.

I read somewhere a victim said he heard "several loud bangs like garbage trucks" and then shooting. Just guessing, but the bangs could have been the shooter forcing himself in a door.

 

[Goshin]

I have to press a button to be let into school during school hours, though not afterwards.
This means there is no protection from guns at our sporting and other after-school events.
Even though they know me, I still have to be pre-approved to guest teach and coach during school hours.

I fully support Home Rule of schools to do what they will with staff carrying guns.
I've taken considerable grief from both 'sides' for this stance.

The problem here is how do you protect the students when they are let out of school.
That's something you could look at the next time you're at a school when kids are dismissed.
It is not a settling feeling ...

I know it isn't Nimby.

Just today my nephews got off the schoolbus, and two strange men in a truck were sitting at the head of my driveway. My older nephew was wary of them. The bus driver, bless him, noticed and didn't pull off until after the men left.

Usually one of us meets them but no one was available today. After hearing that we will probably be more vigilant about meeting them to get off the bus.

But there's no way to make the world safe entirely. I don't know what you think we can do, gun-wise, that is likely to make a major impact. One reason there's no point in requiring background checks for private sales is that it is entirely un-enforceable.

 

[Goshin]

Probably depends where you live. I live out in the country, but the grand kids go to school in a small town. No cops, one just walks into the school and go to the office. Now in the big cities such as Atlanta I've heard they have all that stuff. But Atlanta is crime ridden and shootings happen in that city every day.

I live in a town of 3,000 people.

 

[Linc]

Maybe you need to calm down.

In one breath you admit you tried to get your wife to carry illegally then expressed outrage that some want armed protectors at schools.

You're all over the place and making no sense.

I make very clear sense. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
No one needs to calm down when 17 more of our teenagers are gunned down by WMDs, weapons of massacre and death. This is not an 'event', and it is not be taken 'lightly'.
Prayers, condolences, and it's too soon to talk remain the GOP battle cry, until the next massacre ...

 

[Goshin]

I make very clear sense. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
No one needs to calm down when 17 more of our teenagers are gunned down by WMDs, weapons of massacre and death. This is not an 'event', and it is not be taken 'lightly'.
Prayers, condolences, and it's too soon to talk remain the GOP battle cry, until the next massacre ...

You haven't even proposed any solutions to my knowledge, so what sense are you making?

 

[Perotista]

For over ten years I haven't been to a school where you could just walk in. They keep the doors locked and there are barriers, and someone has to "buzz" you in.

Most schools have a "resource officer" (aka cop) on site during school hours... some have two. Armed.


So how did this guy just waltz in with an AR15 and nobody knew until he started shooting? Nobody prevented him entering. Apparently no armed school resource officer intervened during the shooting.


Did this school just not have such security measures, or did they fail? If the latter, how?


I really, really want to know, but such details are scant in such shooting incidents.

After I posted my reply to you, I was sitting here thinking. What the heck has happened to our society that cops and security protection in schools is needed these days? I remember growing up and in High School if some of us kids wanted to go hunting after school, we'd bring our .410's to school with us. Ride the bus and the whole nine yards. No one thought a thing about that. Heck, the teachers left their rifles and shotguns in racks in the back window of their pickups and never bothered to lock them. No one would ever dream about messing with the teachers cars. Of course this was back in the late 50's early 60's in an old country school.

So I repeat, what the heck has happened to our society? Has our society advanced to a point where we need to lock our school kids in with cops around to protect them? Is that societal advancement?

 

[Perotista]

I live in a town of 3,000 people.

You still have cops in schools?

 

[Grand Mal]

Never mind gunners. This school (and parents) and the community around it are not worried about attracting pedophiles? Or is it you all figure that the sausage grinder will scare pedophiles away? Maybe it does... I dunno.

No, we just don't care about our children the way you do. Maybe we should do more to emulate you and your society, so we can be more like you.

 

[Goshin]

You still have cops in schools?

It's semi-rural but my county has always had a relatively high crime rate. It has gotten worse in recent years as meth rolled in like the tide.


The city (20 min drive) is literally worse than Compton as far as many crime stats.

 

[Perotista]

It's semi-rural but my county has always had a relatively high crime rate. It has gotten worse in recent years as meth rolled in like the tide.

Crap, Crime is steadily moving south out of Atlanta. Even being 25 miles away is no guarantee anymore. Time for me to move further south.

 

[Goshin]

Crap, Crime is steadily moving south out of Atlanta. Even being 25 miles away is no guarantee anymore. Time for me to move further south.

It's the meth. All the labs are out in the country, and with the labs come pushers and new users... who soon start stealing to support their habit, and their judgement goes kablooie, next thing you know people are getting shot every other week.

Sucks. Not sure it is something we can get away from... seems to be spreading like wildfire.

 

[Goshin]

After I posted my reply to you, I was sitting here thinking. What the heck has happened to our society that cops and security protection in schools is needed these days? I remember growing up and in High School if some of us kids wanted to go hunting after school, we'd bring our .410's to school with us. Ride the bus and the whole nine yards. No one thought a thing about that. Heck, the teachers left their rifles and shotguns in racks in the back window of their pickups and never bothered to lock them. No one would ever dream about messing with the teachers cars. Of course this was back in the late 50's early 60's in an old country school.

So I repeat, what the heck has happened to our society? Has our society advanced to a point where we need to lock our school kids in with cops around to protect them? Is that societal advancement?

I don't know. Guns were sorta-kinda banned from schools by the 70s when I went, but I still remember the coach getting his deer rifle out of the trunk and showing it to some of us.

We HAD access to guns. Guns in almost every household, and back then rarely locked up.

For some reason we just didn't think blowing away a bunch of people at school was The Thing To Do. I'm not sure what changed... it isn't the guns though, it's people. The culture. Something.

 

[Linc]

I know it isn't Nimby.

Just today my nephews got off the schoolbus, and two strange men in a truck were sitting at the head of my driveway. My older nephew was wary of them. The bus driver, bless him, noticed and didn't pull off until after the men left.

Usually one of us meets them but no one was available today. After hearing that we will probably be more vigilant about meeting them to get off the bus.

But there's no way to make the world safe entirely. I don't know what you think we can do, gun-wise, that is likely to make a major impact. One reason there's no point in requiring background checks for private sales is that it is entirely un-enforceable.

Thanks for this man, seriously. You know I feel your pain.
We spend more time with your kids than you do. We love them.
We're at the end of our rope seeing them gunned down.

Exactly what happened with 'bump stocks'?
The only people that can make a difference with guns are the most strident gun supporters.
Until they speak up loudly and clearly, this carnage will continue unabated.

You haven't even proposed any solutions to my knowledge, so what sense are you making?

The students, staff, parents, and community of another school are scarred for life.
Parents like you, and your kids, are terrified at what comes next.
It will take people like you to stand up to the gun lobby and the proliferation of these weapons of massacre and death.

Who taught me in College to deal with all the death I've seen in 42 years from suicide, alcohol, drugs, accidents, cancer-type diseases and the rest?
As if we don't have enough challenges in education, it's now incumbent upon us to fix a devastating problem given to us by the gun lobby.

I recognize that you are sincere in your OP.

I have to pack for state wrestling this weekend, so I'll be in and out the rest of the night.
I can assure you our conservative wrestling community will be discussing this latest gun massacre this weekend.
I owe you a proper response with my 'ideas' to solve this problem, though they've always been batted away in the past by the gun lobby on this forum. I'm not letting it go any longer ...

 

[Fishking]

Really? Not like that locally. My nephews' elementary school, the middle school, the high school, ALL have a security barrier and a cop or two.

Yeah...we can just walk into my kid's schools. I do it all the time.

 

[Goshin]

Yeah...we can just walk into my kid's schools. I do it all the time.

Well see that surprises me. I figured if my little podunk town had all this security, that probably most schools did.


Apparently it isn't so. Maybe it should be.

 

[Goshin]

I recognize that you are sincere in your OP.
.

Thanks for that. I was, very much so.

 

[Perotista]

I don't know. Guns were sorta-kinda banned from schools by the 70s when I went, but I still remember the coach getting his deer rifle out of the trunk and showing it to some of us.

We HAD access to guns. Guns in almost every household, and back then rarely locked up.

For some reason we just didn't think blowing away a bunch of people at school was The Thing To Do. I'm not sure what changed... it isn't the guns though, it's people. The culture. Something.

It's people and society as a whole. It has to be. When I grew up there were no gun control laws. I would ride my bike into town as a 13 or 14 year old and buy shells for my .410 at the western auto. No questions asked. I grew up in the 1950's, no gun control, but only one mass shooting that entire decade.

Like you, I grew up around guns. My dad had his guns in the hall closet, unlocked. Shells and cartridges on the shelf. I could use any of the shotguns or rifles as long as I cleaned them after I was done hunting. My grandpa had his Savage double barrel along with a couple of rifles on racks over the fireplace. Again shells and cartridges sitting on the mantle. None of kids would ever think about bothering them.

The thing is gun control can't control society as sick as our society has become. It's fashionable to blame guns these days. But guns don't fire themselves, someone has to load them and pull the trigger. Perhaps it is the lack of parental control and discipline that is missing. Maybe way too much letting TV and video games be the baby sitter instead of mom and pop teaching them right and wrong. Perhaps it is the gray area between right and wrong that has been introduced. Perhaps it's not holding anyone responsible for their actions and decisions. It's always someone else's fault, the environment, something, anything but the individual himself who made his decisions and took the action.

Perhaps its all these out of wedlock births with a mother of five and all five having different fathers who never take care of them. I don't know, perhaps it is all of this and a lot more. One thing is for sure, our society is sick as all get out.

 

[beerftw]

Plenty of warning signs
Nikolas Cruz, identified as Florida high school shooting suspect, reportedly showed warning signs | Fox News
but of course lame arse Nelson spews about gun laws for votes before all the information is in.
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/s...ooting-south-florida-is-hurting-1161768003668

There are always warning signs, people tent to ignore them, much the same people ignore the signs of suicidal people. People who are suicidal semi fit into the mass shooter category as both groups are troubled, however the much larger group usually takes their own lives while the latter tries to take other lives with them, but often the symptoms are the same.

Most of those symptoms are reclusiveness, depression, and fear, they are not exclusive to any group however when they become together they can point to a direction, and often the people troubled have problems and are unable to express themselves yet seek aknowledgement from those around them, in many cases no one even gives a darn or mentions it except in private until xyz hangs themself or syz shoots up a place, then suddenly it becomes oh yeah there were signs, but pffft I would have to put my iphone down for 5 seconds to adress that.

 

[Goshin]

It's people and society as a whole. It has to be. When I grew up there were no gun control laws. I would ride my bike into town as a 13 or 14 year old and buy shells for my .410 at the western auto. No questions asked. I grew up in the 1950's, no gun control, but only one mass shooting that entire decade.

Like you, I grew up around guns. My dad had his guns in the hall closet, unlocked. Shells and cartridges on the shelf. I could use any of the shotguns or rifles as long as I cleaned them after I was done hunting. My grandpa had his Savage double barrel along with a couple of rifles on racks over the fireplace. Again shells and cartridges sitting on the mantle. None of kids would ever think about bothering them.

The thing is gun control can't control society as sick as our society has become. It's fashionable to blame guns these days. But guns don't fire themselves, someone has to load them and pull the trigger. Perhaps it is the lack of parental control and discipline that is missing. Maybe way too much letting TV and video games be the baby sitter instead of mom and pop teaching them right and wrong. Perhaps it is the gray area between right and wrong that has been introduced. Perhaps it's not holding anyone responsible for their actions and decisions. It's always someone else's fault, the environment, something, anything but the individual himself who made his decisions and took the action.

Perhaps its all these out of wedlock births with a mother of five and all five having different fathers who never take care of them. I don't know, perhaps it is all of this and a lot more. One thing is for sure, our society is sick as all get out.

QFT cuz I couldn't Like it twice.



We're a mess. Murder starts in the heart, long before it ever reaches the trigger finger.


We had plenty of guns available back-when... but we also had something that kept us from using them, that has gone missing somehow.

 

[Maccabee]

This could all be solved if the kids had guns to protect themselves --NRA

If the teachers were armed then they might of had a chance. No person being shot at ever said "I'm sure glad I'm not armed right now."

 

[volsrock]

wasn't this a gun free zone?