Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trump’s Signature Law

[sjmay]

Ok, thanks, I guess you're one of the reasons Trump's tax cuts didn't help 100%. Our tax laws are still way too complex and convoluted.

Wrong person, but ok,

Yes, the tax laws are definitely too complex still...

 

[Winston]

GOP took away my tuition deduction...



what the hell

 

[upsideguy]

no tax witholding tables have nothing to do with tax cuts.
they have to do with how much is with held from your check during the year.

If you did not account for that then you might not put enough money in.
It has nothing to do with tax cuts.

whether or not you received a tax cut is how much your tax liability was the year before vs
what it is now.

if you didn't account for how much with holding you had then you could end up paying or not getting
as big of a refund, but that doesn't mean you are paying more in taxes.

Sorry pal, I hold a CPA license. I do know what withholding tables are, which is good for this discussion as apparently you do not.

When you cut tax rates, the withholding tables also get adjusted commensurate with the new tax rates. Withholding is designed to reasonably assure your taxes are substantially to fully funded when you are required to actually pay (file) your taxes. So, it stands to reason that when you cut taxes, you can reduce withholdings, as was done for the 2018 tax year. The problem, as I pointed out (and substantiated) is that the actually lowered withholdings by a little more than they cut taxes, resulting in lower refunds (and more people under withheld).

Please note that I offered up four cites to support my point. If you had actually read any of them, you would note that each one talked about how the withholding tables had been adjusted to reflect the new tax law. You apparently were too lazy to read them, but that did not stop you from responding in earnest and ignorance. Moreover, we all note that you were unable to offer any evidence to support your assertion. I also suspect you lack the professional credentials to even talk off the top of you head as I get to do on this particular subject.

Republicans didn't juice them. They had nothing to do with the IRS adjusting the tax tables due to the new tax law. Do you have any proof that it was Republicans who changed the withholding tables?

Yes. Apparently you also failed to read any of the cites I provided, nor did you offer up any cite of you own in you feeble attempt to argue this point. But, let's pile on, eh?

30 million Americans are not withholding enough pay for taxes
Treasury: 90% of wage earners will likely see higher take-home pay
Access Denied
Here's why the average tax refund check is down 16% from last year
The IRS’ election-year quandary: When to boost Americans’ paychecks - POLITICO
https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...u-haven-t-noticed-you-re-already-13390278.php

Kindly step up your game. If you want to argue a well documented point than offer up some third party evidence of your own. Your failure to do so, as you did here, is just a bold statement on your part that you would rather wallow in your ignorance.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

WTF does "split quoting" have to do with anything?
LOL, sorry, the only goof I made was trying to write at an eight grade level without realizing that may be over some folks head.

There is your problem. You tried writing at an 8th grade while not being quite there yet. Maybe try writing like an adult or is that still a few years away?

Anyways, you tried to laugh off a person's contribution to society without knowing their personal situation.

It happens. Just remember, my silly right wing friend, being a thousandaire doesn't mean you get to diminish someone else's tax burden.





Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[ludin]

Ok, looked at the numbers from this year vs. last years....

My liability this year went up by $15K. this was due to the elimination of deductions I was able to take last year that I can no longer take this year...Last year I was able to take $36K in deductions, while this year only the standard deduction....This along with me not adjusting my withholding when the tax cuts went into effect, altered my final number. The loss of me being able to deduct my per diem, which was actually $17K last year, put my total itemized deductions below the standard deduction...So, while you are right when you say that over all not much changed, the Government started withholding less, and that coupled with taking away my ability to write off my expenses hurt me.

I am making more money this year than i did last year more so because my wife started working.
even so i am paying less in taxes. in fact i am paying 2k less in taxes than i did the year before
I have never had enough write-off for it to matter. i have always taken the standard deduction.


The only deduction that you can't take is your per diem.
you could probably have taken your mortgage deduction but why take less money?

on your per diem your company needs to change how they go about it.
even so if you are a company driver they should just put you on expense vs per deim.

 

[ludin]

Sorry pal, I hold a CPA license. I do know what withholding tables are, which is good for this discussion as apparently you do not.

Actually i do. They are an estimate on how much you should pay in tax by the end of the year. So that amount is withheld during the course of the year out of each paycheck.

When you cut tax rates, the withholding tables also get adjusted commensurate with the new tax rates. Withholding is designed to reasonably assure your taxes are substantially to fully funded when you are required to actually pay (file) your taxes. So, it stands to reason that when you cut taxes, you can reduce withholdings, as was done for the 2018 tax year. The problem, as I pointed out (and substantiated) is that the actually lowered withholdings by a little more than they cut taxes, resulting in lower refunds (and more people under withheld).

maybe as a CPA you should have advised your clients that they should adjust your allowances etc ...
that would have allowed them to ensure that they were paying enough.

again all your refund is whether or not you have paid more than your tax liability.
your tax liability is determined by AGI.

i could take more allowances but i choose not to as i don't want to end up paying at the end of the year.

if people want to see if they had a tax decrease they need to look at their tax liability not their tax return.

 

[HumblePi]

Let me the first to say it, WE TOLD YOU SO!

 

[Bullseye]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

There is your problem. You tried writing at an 8th grade while not being quite there yet. Maybe try writing like an adult or is that still a few years away?

Anyways, you tried to laugh off a person's contribution to society without knowing their personal situation.

It happens. Just remember, my silly right wing friend, being a thousandaire doesn't mean you get to diminish someone else's tax burden.





Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

You're just plain lying.

 

[j-mac]

Well, not everyone has $17,000 in per diem to declare. How many days does that represent?

Last year it was about 290

 

[j-mac]

I am making more money this year than i did last year more so because my wife started working.
even so i am paying less in taxes. in fact i am paying 2k less in taxes than i did the year before
I have never had enough write-off for it to matter. i have always taken the standard deduction.


The only deduction that you can't take is your per diem.
you could probably have taken your mortgage deduction but why take less money?

on your per diem your company needs to change how they go about it.
even so if you are a company driver they should just put you on expense vs per deim.

If that results in the company paying me more money, good luck....I make more when the wheels are turning....lol

 

[j-mac]

Let me the first to say it, WE TOLD YOU SO!

Yep, most have had the class to not say that, but I do hope it makes you feel better....The problem with what I see in the tax code is that Trump's team had a second round of cuts coming for the middle class, and Paul Ryan, and resist Republicant's dragged enough to make sure it didn't come to the floor...There is NO excuse and those Republicant's that worked to stop the second relief aimed at people like me I will work hard to do what I can do to support someone running against them.

 

[Helix]

I think in war time, actual declared war like WWII, the American people all have to tighten their belts...But, I don't think that the conflicts we are in now compare to all out declared world war.

I don't support "conflicts." **** or get off the pot, and the sacrifice should be shared.

 

[j-mac]

I don't support "conflicts." **** or get off the pot, and the sacrifice should be shared.

I guess the 'civil' part is over?

 

[Helix]

I guess the 'civil' part is over?

Meaning what?

 

[j-mac]

Meaning what?

Meaning, when you get aggressive this early in the morning, when we were having a relatively civil conversation yesterday, I guess you are making a conscience choice to do away with that civil discourse...

 

[Helix]

Meaning, when you get aggressive this early in the morning, when we were having a relatively civil conversation yesterday, I guess you are making a conscience choice to do away with that civil discourse...

My post wasn't uncivil. I don't support undeclared wars, and I think that everyone should have to pay for declared wars.

 

[j-mac]

My post wasn't uncivil.

Isn't that up to the person receiving your post? Or, do you now get to decide how I take it?

I don't support undeclared wars, and I think that everyone should have to pay for declared wars.

Good for you I guess...But, I am not here to talk about that....If you wish to, you should start a thread...

 

[Helix]

Isn't that up to the person receiving your post? Or, do you now get to decide how I take it?



Good for you I guess...But, I am not here to talk about that....If you wish to, you should start a thread...

If you don't want to discuss that, you have the option of not quoting me.

 

[jonny5]

Ok, looked at the numbers from this year vs. last years....

My liability this year went up by $15K. this was due to the elimination of deductions I was able to take last year that I can no longer take this year...Last year I was able to take $36K in deductions, while this year only the standard deduction....This along with me not adjusting my withholding when the tax cuts went into effect, altered my final number. The loss of me being able to deduct my per diem, which was actually $17K last year, put my total itemized deductions below the standard deduction...So, while you are right when you say that over all not much changed, the Government started withholding less, and that coupled with taking away my ability to write off my expenses hurt me.

Over all like I said, we will manage....It's not a devastating number to come up with, but, it's certainly NOT the "break" to me it was touted to be either....

According to this, the per diem went UP. So like most everyone else, you should be paying less tax, not more.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-18-77.pdf

 

[j-mac]

If you don't want to discuss that, you have the option of not quoting me.

That's fine...I hope you have a wonderful day....:2wave:

 

[j-mac]

According to this, the per diem went UP. So like most everyone else, you should be paying less tax, not more.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-18-77.pdf

Yep, it went from $57 I think, to $63....However, with the increase in the standard deduction, along with changes in what they allow, I don't make enough in that to write it off anymore....I'm not a tax guy, I am just posting my particular situation with MY taxes this year vs last....I haven't sent anything in yet, and am considering taking it to a friend of mine's dad who is a CPA and does taxes for O/O's and small trucking companies, to see if there is anything I am missing....

 

[jonny5]

Yep, it went from $57 I think, to $63....However, with the increase in the standard deduction, along with changes in what they allow, I don't make enough in that to write it off anymore....I'm not a tax guy, I am just posting my particular situation with MY taxes this year vs last....I haven't sent anything in yet, and am considering taking it to a friend of mine's dad who is a CPA and does taxes for O/O's and small trucking companies, to see if there is anything I am missing....

Well again, regardless of the standard deduction, if youre income is the same, and your deductions are MORE, and the tax rate is LESS, that equals LESS taxes.

If you are making LESS, and have less to deduct, then the standard deduction is MORE, and you still pay less taxes.

If anything, all your demonstrating here is that taxes are too complex. The only shadow being case on Trumps signature law is that Republicans underestimated how little people understand taxes.I mean, people actually think overpaying their taxes and getting a refund is GOOD!
Luckily the tax act did actually simplify things a little, but we have a long way to go.

 

[OlNate]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

Well, that's liberal nonsense. Dismissed.

:lamo

I've come to notice that "Dismissed" is Right-lish for "Welp, I lost that one".

I'm sure Left-ese has its own equivalent.

 

[Helix]

That's fine...I hope you have a wonderful day....:2wave:

I hope that you have a good day, as well.

 

[j-mac]

Well again, regardless of the standard deduction, if youre income is the same, and your deductions are MORE, and the tax rate is LESS, that equals LESS taxes.

If you are making LESS, and have less to deduct, then the standard deduction is MORE, and you still pay less taxes.

If anything, all your demonstrating here is that taxes are too complex. The only shadow being case on Trumps signature law is that Republicans underestimated how little people understand taxes.I mean, people actually think overpaying their taxes and getting a refund is GOOD!
Luckily the tax act did actually simplify things a little, but we have a long way to go.

Well, I agree Johnny that the tax code is ridiculously complex...And should be simplified...But, like I said, you are showing some narrow parameters to reach your conclusions....I don't think that over paying is good, however, I'd like to not have to pay at tax time either...I had it worked out to just about break even, and I guess in the big picture you could say that even with having to pay, all in all I am still breaking relatively even....However, it's a little tough having to come up with $1600 in 8 weeks in the budget unaccounted for....But, I will get through it...

Like I said before, I'm not complaining, rather just giving a nod I guess to my friends on the other side of the isle in saying that when the tax cuts first came out and I argued the WH line, that in the practical world as it turns out they were right, and I was wrong...That's all...It's called humility, we all could do good to have just a little of it.