Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trump’s Signature Law

[ludin]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

How does you doing well refute the fact that there are millions of right winters who won't see a benefit from Trump's tax cuts?

prove it.
refund =/= tax liability.
or are just incapable of being honest in anything you post?

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

prove it.

Sure:

GOP Tax Plan Hurt Farmers, Small Businesses - Iowa Starting Line

Federal tax reform hurts Montana agriculture cooperative

New Report Details How GOP Tax Law Hurts Homeowners And Helps Wealthy Developers | House Committee on Oversight and Reform

How the GOP Tax Bill Affects You

We get it though ludin, "you" did well, and everyone else just doesn't understand the tax law as well as a guy who thinks he's a jury of peers for Hillary's court case.

2018 was only a preview of what's going to happen to the GOP in 2020.

Lol.


Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[Moderate Right]

Not exactly. The tax withholding tables were juiced to give people a sense of a bigger tax cut than they actually received. It was "front-ended" to help with the 2016 election. It was an intentional "bait and switch" on the part of the administration.

Here's why the average tax refund check is down 16% from last year

The IRS’ election-year quandary: When to boost Americans’ paychecks - POLITICO

Your 2018 tax cut has kicked in, but pay attention to withholding - SFChronicle.com

IRS rolls out new tax withholding tables to align paychecks with tax law - POLITICO

Republicans didn't juice them. They had nothing to do with the IRS adjusting the tax tables due to the new tax law. Do you have any proof that it was Republicans who changed the withholding tables?

 

[eohrnberger]

Wonderful growth? Are you kidding? You liked driving around your city, seeing shuttered businesses, closed strip malls, and feeling peoples blah attitude over the economy then telling them that it was "the new norm"? Were you blind?

. . .

You know...On the street, in real life, someone says that to me, I'd tell them to **** off! But, in here I can only SMH.

I know what you mean. Here, there were quite a few commercial store fronts which were closed down, boarded up in the previous 4-6 years. Now, they are opening back up, old buildings being torn down and new ones being built in their place.

Nice to see a revitalization in these areas after that depressed look with closed and boarded businesses.

I can only imagine which way it'll turn should one of the Socialist Democrat candidates take the White House in 2020. I suspect it'll go back to being closed and boarded up again, once bankrupted by the tax burdens surely to be imposed.

 

[j-mac]

What did you pay in taxes last year compared to this year.

I paid about $2000 more this year...

and no you didn't lose your mortgage deduction.

Um, yes we did...

Taxpayers can deduct the interest paid on first and second mortgages up to $1,000,000 in mortgage debt.

Did our taxes through Turbo Tax as we do every year, and I'm telling you that we couldn't deduct our Mortgage interest...

so no you weren't able to deduction your per diem.

So? That's a $14K amount in itemized deductions that I no longer have.

On this coupled with the Mortgage interest deduction, my understanding is that Itemized deductions in order for them to be beneficial have to exceed the amount of the standard deduction...Therefore, by taking away my $14K in travel expense, plus per diem as a Trucker, I no longer exceed the amount of our combined standard deduction, therefore I lose both. Resulting in the shift in my tax exposure.

i wish people would not spread misinformation as to what they
were saying.

Are you suggesting I am lying about MY taxes?

The question is are you paying less taxes this year than last year.

which would be your net tax due no how much you get back in a refund.

I don't have my forms in front of me, however, I can tell you that our household income was relatively the same, and last year I received about $400 back from the Federal return, this year with nothing changed, I owe $1600 now you tell me.

 

[sjmay]

I paid about $2000 more this year...



Um, yes we did...



Did our taxes through Turbo Tax as we do every year, and I'm telling you that we couldn't deduct our Mortgage interest...



So? That's a $14K amount in itemized deductions that I no longer have.

On this coupled with the Mortgage interest deduction, my understanding is that Itemized deductions in order for them to be beneficial have to exceed the amount of the standard deduction...Therefore, by taking away my $14K in travel expense, plus per diem as a Trucker, I no longer exceed the amount of our combined standard deduction, therefore I lose both. Resulting in the shift in my tax exposure.



Are you suggesting I am lying about MY taxes?



I don't have my forms in front of me, however, I can tell you that our household income was relatively the same, and last year I received about $400 back from the Federal return, this year with nothing changed, I owe $1600 now you tell me.

Jmac,

Don't know if you are an owner/op or company driver, but would it not make sense to find an accountant specific to transportation etc, instead of relying on turbo tax?

 

[j-mac]

Jmac,

Don't know if you are an owner/op or company driver, but would it not make sense to find an accountant specific to transportation etc, instead of relying on turbo tax?

Company driver....But, yes, I have a good friend who's father specializes in business, and Trucker taxes....Had him look it over, and it is spot on...

The biggest problem I can see is when they did away with my write offs for being on the road....

 

[sjmay]

Company driver....But, yes, I have a good friend who's father specializes in business, and Trucker taxes....Had him look it over, and it is spot on...

The biggest problem I can see is when they did away with my write offs for being on the road....

I've heard that from a lot of my trucks (dispatcher here) I don't get involved on that side, so I have no clue, I just saw you mentioned trucker, per diem, and turbo tax lol, figured I might chime in.

 

[j-mac]

I've heard that from a lot of my trucks (dispatcher here) I don't get involved on that side, so I have no clue, I just saw you mentioned trucker, per diem, and turbo tax lol, figured I might chime in.

No problem....What it really boils down to, is that for all the years I've been driving, I could deduct a set amount per day for being out on the road. Last year I believe it was $53 per day for meals, lodging, etc....Now this is gone...And as just a working stiff with no shelters of my income, living largely pay check to pay check, this hammered me....I should have changed my withholding, as I like to come as close to even as possible, but never got around to it, and as a result, I owe $1600 this year....

 

[ludin]

Re: Shrinking Tax Refunds Cast a Shadow on Trumpâ€[emoji769]s Signature Law

Sure:

GOP Tax Plan Hurt Farmers, Small Businesses - Iowa Starting Line

offers nothing as to why it is bad or hurting people just says that it is without context or anything else.
Where are the business tax returns? where are the statements showing how much they paid last year to this year
and if it went down. none of that is list in there they just state ol it is bad. dismissed.

Federal tax reform hurts Montana agriculture cooperative

Again nothing that says there is any harm done.
Section 199A deduction for cooperatives | Insights
busts your article all to pieces. you should do more research.

nothing the idiot leftists in the country says is meaningful in anyway so why did you even post it?

We get it though ludin, "you" did well, and everyone else just doesn't understand the tax law.

I did understand it. unlike you who thinks that tax returns mean anything. They don't.

2018 was only a preview of what's going to happen to the GOP in 2020.

Once people get their with holding figured out and lower their allowances they will be fine.
it still has no impact on their tax liability. which you have yet to actually discuss.

let me know when you actually want to engage in honest discussions because that will never
happen with you. I don't see why you would start not.

tax return =/= tax liability.

 

[Conservative]

Obama had the wonderful growth, without giving the huge tax break to corporations and the richest Americans.



Your crumbs were even less than you expected?



LOL, nothing like blaming someone else. Trump got his huge tax break, so he's happy. But you apparently think he actually gives two ****s about you. Didn't you follow what happened with Trump University?

Please show me where he kept the pressure on Congress and the Senate to lower taxes for his base. Because I'm pretty sure he didn't. Because his history tells us he's just conning you, quit being gullible.

you know, the more you post the more intellectually challenged you are and that is embarrassing. Obama's incredible growth was 4.2 trillion dollars in 8 years whereas Bush's growth was 4.5 trillion in 8 years including what you have called the worst recession in U.S. history. Then there is the issue of gov't spending which is a component of GDP thus impacting the growth, in addition to the normal department funding thus the normal gov't spending we had an 842 billion dollar stimulus which skewed GDP growth upward. Trump without that additional spending has generated 2 trillion in GDP growth in two years and 5 million jobs most of which were full time. Your opinion and view of history doesn't reconcile with the actual results

 

[ludin]

I paid about $2000 more this year...

Then something isn't right.

Um, yes we did...

No you didn't unless you have a house worth over 1m dollars you still get your mortgage deduction interest.

Did our taxes through Turbo Tax as we do every year, and I'm telling you that we couldn't deduct our Mortgage interest...

Then that might not have been the best route but yes if you itemize you can still deduct your mortgage interest.
You can deduct home mortgage interest on the first $750,000 ($375,000 if married filing separately) of indebtedness.

you say the IRS is lying? Now whether you can overcome the 25k standard is a different story but you didn't lose the mortgage deduction.

So? That's a $14K amount in itemized deductions that I no longer have.

On this coupled with the Mortgage interest deduction, my understanding is that Itemized deductions in order for them to be beneficial have to exceed the amount of the standard deduction...Therefore, by taking away my $14K in travel expense, plus per diem as a Trucker, I no longer exceed the amount of our combined standard deduction, therefore I lose both. Resulting in the shift in my tax exposure.

Ending the confusion over per diem — FreightWaves
Your company needs to change how they do it and you will be fine.

You not being able to over come the standard deduction does not mean you LOSE it.
It doesn't make sense to take a deduction that is 20k when you get 25k does it?
does that make sense to you? it doesn't to me.

Are you suggesting I am lying about MY taxes?

Except for the per diem you are not losing deduction that is called misinformation.
You not being able to overcome the 24k or 25k standard deduction doesn't mean you LOSE your other deductions.
I just makes sense not to take a deduction that is lower than the standard. it doesn't mean you lost it.

I don't have my forms in front of me, however, I can tell you that our household income was relatively the same, and last year I received about $400 back from the Federal return, this year with nothing changed, I owe $1600 now you tell me.

That is called withholding.
Again you are confusing tax refund with tax liability.

You have to compare what your tax liability was this year compared to last year.
it has nothing to do with what you pay or get back from the federal government.

 

[j-mac]

Then something isn't right.



No you didn't unless you have a house worth over 1m dollars you still get your mortgage deduction interest.



Then that might not have been the best route but yes if you itemize you can still deduct your mortgage interest.
You can deduct home mortgage interest on the first $750,000 ($375,000 if married filing separately) of indebtedness.

you say the IRS is lying? Now whether you can overcome the 25k standard is a different story but you didn't lose the mortgage deduction.



Ending the confusion over per diem — FreightWaves
Your company needs to change how they do it and you will be fine.

You not being able to over come the standard deduction does not mean you LOSE it.
It doesn't make sense to take a deduction that is 20k when you get 25k does it?
does that make sense to you? it doesn't to me.



Except for the per diem you are not losing deduction that is called misinformation.
You not being able to overcome the 24k or 25k standard deduction doesn't mean you LOSE your other deductions.
I just makes sense not to take a deduction that is lower than the standard. it doesn't mean you lost it.



That is called withholding.
Again you are confusing tax refund with tax liability.

You have to compare what your tax liability was this year compared to last year.
it has nothing to do with what you pay or get back from the federal government.

ludin....I notice that you now add the qualifier about overcoming the standard deduction. I have been saying that all along....I'm a simple guy...all of this semantic about liability, and such, all I know is last year I got back $400 which was about breaking even, and this year I owe $1600.....Now you consider how that effects a household that for intents and purposes, lives pay check to pay check, and you tell me why I should feel comforted that because I got back $40 per week during the year, that I am not giving it all back now? How did that help me?

 

[Helix]

since the tax cuts for the rich didn't do much for the middle class, the Trumpist party shifted it so that the worker bees would get their former refund distributed throughout the year. i hope that people are pretty pissed about it and vote against every Trumpist candidate.

 

[Bullseye]

since the tax cuts for the rich didn't do much for the middle class, the Trumpist party shifted it so that the worker bees would get their former refund distributed throughout the year. i hope that people are pretty pissed about it and vote against every Trumpist candidate.

The tax cuts were for EVERYONE who PAYS income tax. And there was no "Trumpist party shifting" what has occurred is the same thing that has happened since withholding was enacted. Refunds are exactly that - extra money withheld from your paycheck above what you owe for income tax, they're not special gifts from the government - they're YOUR money, money you've EARNED and allowed the government to keep until you file your taxes.

 

[Helix]

The tax cuts were for EVERYONE who PAYS income tax. And there was no "Trumpist party shifting" what has occurred is the same thing that has happened since withholding was enacted. Refunds are exactly that - extra money withheld from your paycheck above what you owe for income tax, they're not special gifts from the government - they're YOUR money, money you've EARNED and allowed the government to keep until you file your taxes.

it was a trickle down gift to the rich. there is no degree of huckstering that can change the reality of that.

Who Benefits From The Tax Cut 10 Months Later

 

[Bullseye]

it was a trickle down gift to the rich. there is no degree of huckstering that can change the reality of that.

Who Benefits From The Tax Cut 10 Months Later

Except most of what that six-month old OPINION claims has been disproved: companies are increasing capital spending and year over year average wages have increased by near record amounts. It was just announced that the number of job openings is also close, or at, record numbers; we now have MORE openings than the number of unemployed. Manufacturing jobs are booming, people are coming off the sidelines to take these new jobs, labor force participation is increasing. But, yeah, the tax cuts were just for the rich. :roll:

 

[j-mac]

since the tax cuts for the rich didn't do much for the middle class, the Trumpist party shifted it so that the worker bees would get their former refund distributed throughout the year. i hope that people are pretty pissed about it and vote against every Trumpist candidate.

Well, I doubt you're going to see that....For instance, even though my situation came out in the form of having to pay this year, I still recognize that the tax cuts have spurred employment in this country, and small business..Leading to more jobs as noted in the fact that the Food Stamp roles are down....So, overall I still see it as a positive for the country...My personal situation, well, I'll just have to suck it up....lol

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Ok, couple of things here...

1st. - I don't see from my personal experience (a $2000 shift) in my tax exposure this year over last, where Mnuchin can claim that it is consistent with last year..

2nd. - I don't blame this totally on Trump's policy, although I do think that by seperating the vision into two separate paths of attack, first being to lower Corporate, and business taxes spurring economic growth, and that part of it worked wonderfully. However, there was supposed to be a second path of then lowering the rates for the individuals, middle, and lower incomes so that they didn't get pinched by getting the $20 - $40 per week that showed up in their pay in 2018.

This was a result of not only those in the Republican resistance ranks teaming up with Democrats refusing to give Trump any victory, but denying those in the lower, and middle income brackets relief in their tax exposure...It was a cynical move politically motivated to ensure that Democrats could use this years shock in their taxes in 2020, and shame on those Republican's that are putting status quo over what is good for the people....

thoughts?

If your paycheque goes up by (for example) $10/wk you might not notice it.

If your IT refund goes down by (for example) $521.79 you probably will notice it.

[Did you know that there are 52.179 weeks in a year?].

"Tactically" the better move would have been to leave the withholding tables/rates where they were and increase the refund by the (as per example) $521.79

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You need to understand that there are people who saw their total taxes paid actually go up. It's not just about the refunds.

Since the people who lost 100%+ of their refund don't get counted when determining the size of the "average refund", then any conclusion based on the size of the refund cheques that the government issues is likely to be "iffy" at best.

 

[Helix]

Except most of what that six-month old OPINION claims has been disproved: companies are increasing capital spending and year over year average wages have increased by near record amounts. It was just announced that the number of job openings is also close, or at, record numbers; we now have MORE openings than the number of unemployed. Manufacturing jobs are booming, people are coming off the sidelines to take these new jobs, labor force participation is increasing. But, yeah, the tax cuts were just for the rich. :roll:

bull****. the rich got richer, and the rest of us got a pittance.

 

[Helix]

Well, I doubt you're going to see that....For instance, even though my situation came out in the form of having to pay this year, I still recognize that the tax cuts have spurred employment in this country, and small business..Leading to more jobs as noted in the fact that the Food Stamp roles are down....So, overall I still see it as a positive for the country...My personal situation, well, I'll just have to suck it up....lol

at least you can be comforted by the fact that Trump's tax bracket made out like bandits. however, that's just a coincidence.

 

[Bullseye]

bull****. the rich got richer, and the rest of us got a pittance.

Only 'cause you pay a pittance in tax. Or live in a high tax state and couldn't deduct your state and local taxes.

 

[Helix]

Only 'cause you pay a pittance in tax. Or live in a high tax state and couldn't deduct your state and local taxes.

i pay a higher percentage of my wages in taxes than the hyper-rich do, and can less afford to do so.

 

[pamak]

Except most of what that six-month old OPINION claims has been disproved: companies are increasing capital spending and year over year average wages have increased by near record amounts. It was just announced that the number of job openings is also close, or at, record numbers; we now have MORE openings than the number of unemployed. Manufacturing jobs are booming, people are coming off the sidelines to take these new jobs, labor force participation is increasing. But, yeah, the tax cuts were just for the rich. :roll:

Average numbers in any field (including wages) are misleading when the income distribution is not normal and there is very high inequality.
As for the unemployment, it continues the trend of the previous year. The concerning thing is that despite the fact that it is very low and approaches full employment (as you may know we can never have 0% unemployment), this does not seem to give workers any particular leverage. If workers cannot increase their wage substantially in a 3.9% unemployment economy, they have a serious problem.

Companies simply used the tax cut for buybacks which is good for about the upper 50% of the population which has an interest in the stock market

U.S. companies spent record $1 trillion buying back own stock this year - CBS News

The guys who will eventually pay for this tax cut are the ones at the bottom 50%. You already see the signs with the proposed budgets trying to cut medicare by about a trillion in the next decade.