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Should Intersexed people be forced into a gender/sex at birth?

AProudLefty said:
And yet they identify as a Christian. :)
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Yes lots of people identify as Christian that aren't perfect people, and yes lots of people identify as Christian that do incredibly bad things.

You will never hear me say that people aren't true Christians that is not my judgement to make that is between them and their lord.

All Christians have sinned and fall short of the expectations of their lord. And I will not tell people what they keep and their heart and mind I do not know.

It didn't feel very nice when it was done to me
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah if you dress up your boy like a girl you are ****ing them up. Let them figure out if they are trans instead of forcing it on them.
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That's what we have been saying! Let them grow up and figure it out!
 
AProudLefty said:
That's what we have been saying! Let them grow up and figure it out!
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So when you see a 3 year old boy dressed like a girl you realize first that those parents bought those clothes for him and second they put them on him. That's not letting him figure it out.
 
CLAX1911 said:
So when you see a 3 year old boy dressed like a girl you realize first that those parents bought those clothes for him and second they put them on him. That's not letting him figure it out.
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Is that your imagination? Give me a link of that happening.
 
roguenuke said:
Please learn some science and stay out of conversations that you simply, obviously know nothing about.

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It doesn't take science to recognize social BS. It isn't for you to tell anyone not to speak. Show me a biologist who can prove there are more than two human genders.
 
roguenuke said:
And some people are born with both or "assignment" that does not match their DNA or the rest of their body and how it functions. Hence this discussion.

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Doesn't make them a third, fourth, fifth or whatever gender.
 
Rumpel said:
There are lots of gender-neutral names, I think.
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There are lots of gender neutral names, but there are only two genders. Simple to determine. If it's an outie, it's male. If it's an innie, it's female. Since the birth certificate is mostly a recorded ID document, it seems appropriate to include this information.

The question in the OP is whether the parents should choose gender at birth. The answer is they can't. It seems also to contradict the other argument that transgenders, gays, etc, are born the way they are.
 
AProudLefty said:
Uh what? Google intersex anatomy and look at the pictures.
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Hermaphrodites have been around for a long time, even worshipped as gods, and persecuted as children of the underworld or whatever superstitious beliefs. Intersex is merely an extension of socially acceptable political correctness for labeling deviation from the norm, whatever the norm may be, as if it changes that these people are freaks. No different than those born with one eye in the center of their faces, or those born with six or more digits on their hands and feet. Sad aberrations that have brought fear to others, and with fear, rejection. Different labels will not dispel that social rejection.

I know and understand all the arguments explaining homosexuality as a genetic twist, and frankly, it doesn't matter. The real issue is the social acceptance of the aberration, regardless of cause. And some aberrant sexual patterns and behavior are unlikely to find social acceptance and shouldn't be accepted, even tho similar genetic arguments could be made as justification, such as predatory pedophilia, failure to achieve orgasm unless subsequent to violence, whatever the aberration.

We can educate a dog to behave like a cat, yet the dog remains a dog.
 
roguenuke said:
So I've been thinking about this a little because I do defend transgenderism with evidence that it could be that at least some transgendered people are in fact intersexed, but should not have to share this.

So the question is, should parents be encouraged to choose a sex for an intersexed child, and therefore a gender for them in those early years (that may change), at birth?



I like how she talks about allowing intersexed people being allowed to choose intersexed or some variant to recognize themselves as who they feel they are. It is only our own problems with accepting things outside the norm which leads us to seeing them as having an issue that we need to fix, to choose one of the "norm".

I will say that I do not think that it is just Christians who reject those that are intersexed, or at least the idea that they should be able to live life as both. I do believe that this is something that is more a cultural thing and part of human nature that simply should be examined and changed through conversations and reasoning as to why we should see choosing a sex for intersexed children as wrong.

As I have pointed out, she points out here, intersexed people represent 1-2% of the population. As a comparison, those with natural red hair make up about 1-2% of the population.

And this leads to a second question, should parents be prevented from choosing a sex/gender for their child at birth?
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It's ok to just recognize it as a birth defect and make accommodations so the individual can live a happy and productive life. There's no need to 'force' anyone into roles, they will naturally fill whatever rolls they personally desire on their own. Names and legal genders can be changed, it's not a big deal.
 
Ouroboros said:
Who decides what bathroom these intersexed persons can use? Maybe that sounds frivolous, but because there are people who would try to abuse this ambivalence-- think, this transgender guy in this salon-- the state has to think about such matters.
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Believe it or not, there's no law saying what bathroom you can use. It's purely a social convention. Besides, your typical intersexed person would either look like a masculine woman in the ladies restroom or an eminent man in the men's restroom. They wouldn't stand out either way.
 
roguenuke said:
I'm not sure why a name would really matter more than the psychological health of the child, which research lately has shown would benefit from, at the very least, the truth about being born intersexed and being able to choose for themselves if they go through hormonal therapy (when it isn't absolutely necessary, and in most cases of intersexed, it isn't).

The most interesting thing (and hypocritical) about it is that many people are against hormonal therapy for transgender children to let them match their stated identity, but few seem to even care that many intersexed children are given such hormones, truly unnecessarily, at birth (or around that time) just because the parents want to choose their sex/gender rather than allowing them to simply be intersexed, both.
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That's because opposition to transgender people is based out of a hatred for those who fall out of the socially accepted gender binary. Helping people was never the goal, it was always to make them fit whether or not it caused needless harm.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I don't think such a person exists Christian or otherwise.
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That is very telling admission because you are trying to rationalize your own behavior by saying that others are just as untruthful, self-serving and predatory as you are.

You are wrong because there are many people who dont see others as something to be taken advantage of.
 
Lisa said:
That is very telling admission because you are trying to rationalize your own behavior by saying that others are just as untruthful, self-serving and predatory as you are.
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admitting that people aren't perfect is telling? I think you're trying to draw too much meaning from something.

You are wrong because there are many people who dont see others as something to be taken advantage of.
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so you're saying that there's people that never ever once in their life take advantage of anybody in any way? I don't believe you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
What's with you people. Admitting I'm not perfect isn't saying I'm a jaded manipulator. Good Lord to get a grip.
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Saying you don't believe there are any people out there who don't lie and use other people is pretty ****ing jaded, and it's certainly an admittance to manipulation.
 
CLAX1911 said:
admitting that people aren't perfect is telling? I think you're trying to draw too much meaning from something.


so you're saying that there's people that never ever once in their life take advantage of anybody in any way? I don't believe you.
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I didn't say that it didn't happen and I didn't say or even suggest that people are perfect but it isn't as common as you claim it is. You are amoral and try to rationalize that what you do is acceptable by saying that everyone else does the same thing, so its OK when you do it instead of admitting that you have a lack of morals and empathy.

You probably like Ayn Rand's greed is good objectivist nonsense.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Saying you don't believe there are any people out there who don't lie and use other people is pretty ****ing jaded, and it's certainly an admittance to manipulation.
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Everyone lies. Jaded or not that's the truth. And I never said that everybody uses people you're putting words into my mouth. The statement was taking advantage of people. That's not the same thing as using them. Sometimes people oblige. I do it all the time. I let people in front of me in the grocery store if I have a shopping cart full of things and they have one or two things they are taking advantage of my kindness I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
 
Lisa said:
I didn't say that it didn't happen and I didn't say or even suggest that people are perfect but it isn't as common as you claim it is.
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how do you know?

You are amoral and try to rationalize that what you do is acceptable by saying that everyone else does the same thing,
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what is it that I do? Give examples please.

so its OK when you do it instead of admitting that you have a lack of morals and empathy.
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okay I have to ask when did I say it was okay?

You probably like Ayn Rand's greed is good objectivist nonsense.
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Never read anything by Ayn Rand.
 
OldFatGuy said:
It doesn't take science to recognize social BS. It isn't for you to tell anyone not to speak. Show me a biologist who can prove there are more than two human genders.
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Gender is a social concept. Being intersexed means a person does not fit into the sexes normally people are born into, with their DNA mostly or totally matching their sexual organs.

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