Should Intersexed people be forced into a gender/sex at birth?

[roguenuke]

There are lots of gender neutral names, but there are only two genders. Simple to determine. If it's an outie, it's male. If it's an innie, it's female. Since the birth certificate is mostly a recorded ID document, it seems appropriate to include this information.

The question in the OP is whether the parents should choose gender at birth. The answer is they can't. It seems also to contradict the other argument that transgenders, gays, etc, are born the way they are.

The person described in the video posted in the OP had both an outie and an innie.

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[roguenuke]

So when you see a 3 year old boy dressed like a girl you realize first that those parents bought those clothes for him and second they put them on him. That's not letting him figure it out.

Have you ever seen a 3 year old? Girl or boy, they generally look the same and we normally judge their gender solely off how they are dressed and maybe their hair cut. Everything else is pretty androgynous at that age. And you aren't going to normally see their genitals out in public.

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[roguenuke]

Yeah if you dress up your boy like a girl you are ****ing them up. Let them figure out if they are trans instead of forcing it on them.

We aren't talking about transgender kids here, we are talking about intersexed kids and allowing them to grow up intersexed, not forcing a sex (and therefore trying to force a gender) into that child.

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[AProudLefty]

Hermaphrodites have been around for a long time, even worshipped as gods, and persecuted as children of the underworld or whatever superstitious beliefs. Intersex is merely an extension of socially acceptable political correctness for labeling deviation from the norm, whatever the norm may be, as if it changes that these people are freaks. No different than those born with one eye in the center of their faces, or those born with six or more digits on their hands and feet. Sad aberrations that have brought fear to others, and with fear, rejection. Different labels will not dispel that social rejection.

I know and understand all the arguments explaining homosexuality as a genetic twist, and frankly, it doesn't matter. The real issue is the social acceptance of the aberration, regardless of cause. And some aberrant sexual patterns and behavior are unlikely to find social acceptance and shouldn't be accepted, even tho similar genetic arguments could be made as justification, such as predatory pedophilia, failure to achieve orgasm unless subsequent to violence, whatever the aberration.

We can educate a dog to behave like a cat, yet the dog remains a dog.

Bravo. 14 pages in and someone mentions pedophilia. Never fails. Every single time.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why choose at all though? Why can't we just accept people as both male and female, regardless of how much of one or the other they resemble?

Because no one at all is male and female.

Some people may have chromosomal or developmental defects, but they are just that, people with defects, and they have a scientifically observable sex.

 

[AProudLefty]

Here.

You're the one who said parents wouldn't let the boy figure it out and just put girl clothes on him. That's YOUR.hypothetical and claim.

 

[roguenuke]

Because no one at all is male and female.

Some people may have chromosomal or developmental defects, but they are just that, people with defects, and they have a scientifically observable sex.

No they don't. Even science doesnt agree on which determines sex, genitalia or DNA. And there are people with both sexes genitals (including the one described in the OP video) as well as people with both male and female DNA in their body and people who have XXY DNA. That is why the term intersexed exists.

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[EMNofSeattle]

We aren't talking about transgender kids here, we are talking about intersexed kids and allowing them to grow up intersexed, not forcing a sex (and therefore trying to force a gender) into that child.

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All “intersexed” people have a sex. This was “forced” on them by nature. Due to defective development they may not be mentally healthy and feel as though they’re being “forced” but they are not.

 

[roguenuke]

Hermaphrodites have been around for a long time, even worshipped as gods, and persecuted as children of the underworld or whatever superstitious beliefs. Intersex is merely an extension of socially acceptable political correctness for labeling deviation from the norm, whatever the norm may be, as if it changes that these people are freaks. No different than those born with one eye in the center of their faces, or those born with six or more digits on their hands and feet. Sad aberrations that have brought fear to others, and with fear, rejection. Different labels will not dispel that social rejection.

I know and understand all the arguments explaining homosexuality as a genetic twist, and frankly, it doesn't matter. The real issue is the social acceptance of the aberration, regardless of cause. And some aberrant sexual patterns and behavior are unlikely to find social acceptance and shouldn't be accepted, even tho similar genetic arguments could be made as justification, such as predatory pedophilia, failure to achieve orgasm unless subsequent to violence, whatever the aberration.

We can educate a dog to behave like a cat, yet the dog remains a dog.

Do you even know or recognize what this topic is about?

This has nothing to do with homosexuality or any sexuality. This has to do with people are physically both sexes in some way. They do exist, whether you wish to recognize them or not.

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[EMNofSeattle]

No they don't. Even science doesnt agree on which determines sex, genitalia or DNA. And there are people with both sexes genitals (including the one described in the OP video) as well as people with both male and female DNA in their body and people who have XXY DNA. That is why the term intersexed exists.

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XXY means male with genetic defects.

Nobody who is XX has perfectly functioning male genitalia. It could be that you might have a donk, but it will not be functioning as someone who is XY and genetically healthy.

This is not complicated, but of course we are talking about a political idea that reality must be subjugated to the Party’s wishes and so any aberration is emphasized to claim reality does not exist.

 

[roguenuke]

All “intersexed” people have a sex. This was “forced” on them by nature. Due to defective development they may not be mentally healthy and feel as though they’re being “forced” but they are not.

No they don't.

What sex is someone who has XXY DNA? What about who is born with a small penis nub and a fused vagina? What if they are found to have no penis, a vagina, but testes inside? What sexes are each of these people and please provide scientific support for this.

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[AProudLefty]

That's President FDR.

 

[roguenuke]

XXY means male with genetic defects.

Nobody who is XX has perfectly functioning male genitalia. It could be that you might have a donk, but it will not be functioning as someone who is XY and genetically healthy.

This is not complicated, but of course we are talking about a political idea that reality must be subjugated to the Party’s wishes and so any aberration is emphasized to claim reality does not exist.

But if the are XX and born with a penis, they will be raised as a boy from birth. Most will not even know they have XX chromosomes until puberty or later, if ever.

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[EMNofSeattle]

But if the are XX and born with a penis, they will be raised as a boy from birth. Most will not even know they have XX chromosomes until puberty or later, if ever.

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Ok and that might cause some identity issues with that child, that I do not deny.

But it is simply not accurate to claim she has two sexes or no sex at all.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No they don't.

What sex is someone who has XXY DNA? What about who is born with a small penis nub and a fused vagina? What if they are found to have no penis, a vagina, but testes inside? What sexes are each of these people and please provide scientific support for this.

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A male with Klinefelter syndrome which if you actually google it every medical source refers to this as an exclusively male condition.

I’m sure the genderqueer ministry of truth will be looking to have all these sources scrubbed before too long but XXY is well studied.

They are male.

Klinefelter syndrome - Genetics Home Reference - NIH

 

[OldFatGuy]

Gender is a social concept. Being intersexed means a person does not fit into the sexes normally people are born into, with their DNA mostly or totally matching their sexual organs.

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Gender is defined as either of the two sexes. The word is further used to describe sexual specific usage of language. i.e. le vs la for the French "the" as gender specific.

Gender is not a social concept. Pure PC BS. Intersex is another PC BS fantasy created for sheer in your face abuse of language in attempt to socially legitimize freaks.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Bravo. 14 pages in and someone mentions pedophilia. Never fails. Every single time.

Yet you ignore those who torture and murder to achieve orgasm. Unfortunately, pedophilia exists. Not speaking about it won't make it disappear. Or perhaps you don't view pedophilia as an aberration?

 

[AProudLefty]

Yet you ignore those who torture and murder to achieve orgasm. Unfortunately, pedophilia exists. Not speaking about it won't make it disappear. Or perhaps you don't view pedophilia as an aberration?

You are comparing intersex/transgender people with pedophiles and rapists.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Do you even know or recognize what this topic is about?

This has nothing to do with homosexuality or any sexuality. This has to do with people are physically both sexes in some way. They do exist, whether you wish to recognize them or not.

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You insult my intelligence. It very much has to do with both homosexuality and all sexuality. Aberrations and freaks do exist. No one is obligated to accept the premise using language for social acceptability of the same. There is no good reason to accept your argument. Live with the fact that many disagree with you and will never accept the argument you make because it is a pretense.

Shift the argument to accepting people for what they are providing they do no predatory harm to others and you can find acceptance.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Have you ever seen a 3 year old? Girl or boy, they generally look the same and we normally judge their gender solely off how they are dressed and maybe their hair cut. Everything else is pretty androgynous at that age. And you aren't going to normally see their genitals out in public.

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Nonsense. Sexual behavior differences develop during infancy and before. Never judge a book by its cover. Obviously, you've never been a parent.

 

[OldFatGuy]

You are comparing intersex/transgender people with pedophiles and rapists.

Part of the gestalt.

 

[roguenuke]

You insult my intelligence. It very much has to do with both homosexuality and all sexuality. Aberrations and freaks do exist. No one is obligated to accept the premise using language for social acceptability of the same. There is no good reason to accept your argument. Live with the fact that many disagree with you and will never accept the argument you make because it is a pretense.

Shift the argument to accepting people for what they are providing they do no predatory harm to others and you can find acceptance.

That is this entire argument, accepting them for intersexed, as being intersexed, rather than the sex chosen for them at birth.

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[AProudLefty]

Part of the gestalt.

Okay. And?

 

[roguenuke]

Nonsense. Sexual behavior differences develop during infancy and before. Never judge a book by its cover. Obviously, you've never been a parent.

Bull****. And we were talking about appearance, not behavior in that post.

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[OldFatGuy]

Okay. And?

And what?