School dress code and free speech.

[soot]

They have tremendoustremendous 6merit in junior and senior high schools. Particulary with girls. Eliminates competition.

I guess if you're like some kind of faaaaaar left wing lunatic fringe liberal who thinks everybody should be exactly the same that would make some kind of sense.

But in the real world where real people compete against each other every single day in countless different ways you would think that stripping young people of the need to compete would be doing them a disservice.

You'd end up with a nation of young adults who are afraid to be offended, who need safe places to retreat from the horrors of the civilized world, who thinks that everyone deserves an equal salary for just showing up, who "feel" that their degree in basket weaving should be just as valuable as a degree in electronic engineering.

Yeah, I think we've seen where your feel good, "everyone's a winner" philosophy is taking us.

I say scrap the uniforms and let kids go for each others throats.

The weak, those who Darwin didn't instill with the tools necessary to survive in the real world, will drop out of the competition and as a result we'll be left stronger as a people.

 

[Cryptic]

Though having no bearing on the core uniform or no uniform argument, the school where my children go have a broad based uniform policy that allows students to wear several color combinations of clothing, or any school spirit / activity ware such as T-shirts for this and that.

Thus, mine forget they are "in uniform". This approach works for me, but I can see purists on the no uniform side rejecting it.

 

[jaeger19]

Oh. I thought we were talking about school uniforms. Oh wait. We were.

Oh.. I thought we were stopping competition between girls...and how uniforms would or would not stop that competition.

Oh wait.. we were.

 

[jaeger19]

We may have gone too far in teaching kids that they are inherently special little snowflakes, but I wouldn't remedy that by going too far in the other direction and trying to teach them that they are fungible. I also never saw a single incident in the non-uniform schools I attended where somebody's clothing caused a negative impact on education or anything else.

I really don't understand the praise for school uniforms. What are they supposed to accomplish?



I'm betting that kids don't behave better simply because they are made to wear specific clothing. I'm betting that if they appear to behave better in uniform, it's because a school that requires uniform also has a bunch of other rules that are stricter than non-uniform schools, and it is those rules & consequences that produce the perceived effect.

I would agree completely. In fact.. we go from special little snowflakes.. to we you are all the same.. and except that you are not when it comes to sports and who gets to do what.

We are simply not teaching our children the skills they need to survive in the real world.

 

[Top Cat]

I guess if you're like some kind of faaaaaar left wing lunatic fringe liberal who thinks everybody should be exactly the same that would make some kind of sense.

But in the real world where real people compete against each other every single day in countless different ways you would think that stripping young people of the need to compete

Oh for ****'s sake. These are uniforms. As to the liberal comments, that's total bull****.

If anything, uniforms are conservative in nature.

 

[Bodi]

I can see that debating you is a waste of time.

and its scary that you are an educator. As a parent of school age children its very concerning.

You mentioned hitler... you are right.. I almost did put a picture of the Hitler youth. I actually thought a picture of young Mao Children and "father Mao" would be more contemporary to the discussion.
I also could have put a picture of neo Nazi children.. or a picture of young children in the Klu Klux Clan.

Have you ever thought.. gee what do all these groups have in common? I'll give you a hint... its a uniform.

And why? As an educator have you ever THOUGHT about what the role of a uniform is... and why its used by such as Mao, and Hitler.. etc? Why it has such power and significance?

Tell me.. do you think its to promote individual thought, and thinking for yourself, you know.. the hallmarks of freedom?

Or is it to promote conformity, and "group think" and abdicating ones decisions to leadership? right or wrong?

The fact is its the latter.

What luck!!! Hitler stopped by to pose with his Gestapo. Wow, and we were just talking about the fascist uniform. Amazing timing...



Debating you IS senseless because you will fail to see that the argument of uniforms is not about creating little KKK members it us about controlling some behaviours in a mandated environment where learning is the focus and not what you wear, not to mention gang stuff... but you go off with your Orwellian Maoist Nightmare all you like. :lol:




Oy veh! :roll:

 

[Bodi]

honestly.. do you really believe it "eliminates competition"?

Who has the best nails, the best hair, the thinnest body, the biggest breasts, the hottest boyfriend, the most friends, the coolest tattoo, shops for the best clothes, has the best prom dress, is homecoming queen...

Do you REALLY think Khakis and a polo tee.. have "eliminated competition"?


We are sticking our heads in the sand people when it comes to our kids.

I thought you were a guy but you seem fixated on girl stuff so my apologies...

 

[Bodi]

No it doesn't. do you really think girls aren;t wearing different clothing to school events, out in public.. with their friends.. at parties.. out in the mall.

that girls aren't discussing who is wearing what because in school they wear khakis and a polo?

I was poor.. I wore a jeans and shirt like many other kids in my school I was poor/lower middle class.

Wearing the same style clothes as the rich kids. you don;t think they made fun of me for wearing Kmart brand jeans.. and kmart brand shirt..

When their jeans and shirt were from the GAP?

I guarantee you that girls are commenting on who is buying what khakis where.

In fact the competition is probably worse because if parents/teachers think the problem is "solved".. they are less likely to pay attention.

Sounds like you went to a ****ty school because nobody makes fun of anybody here... or in any of the schools I taught at. I work as a dean and middle managment and have many discussions with parents and students about it. If you had more experience, or any actually as an educator, it would help make you look less foolish.

 

[Bodi]

We may have gone too far in teaching kids that they are inherently special little snowflakes, but I wouldn't remedy that by going too far in the other direction and trying to teach them that they are fungible. I also never saw a single incident in the non-uniform schools I attended where somebody's clothing caused a negative impact on education or anything else.

I really don't understand the praise for school uniforms. What are they supposed to accomplish?



I'm betting that kids don't behave better simply because they are made to wear specific clothing. I'm betting that if they appear to behave better in uniform, it's because a school that requires uniform also has a bunch of other rules that are stricter than non-uniform schools, and it is those rules & consequences that produce the perceived effect.

Did you work at the school or attend it because it makes a huge difference and I saw hundreds of incidents of the years that caused problems...

 

[Bodi]

Oh.. I thought we were stopping competition between girls...and how uniforms would or would not stop that competition.

Oh wait.. we were.

No. None of us were talking about that. You introduced that Straw Man fallacy all on your own as some type of winning point when all it is is fallicious.

 

[Mr Person]

Did you work at the school or attend it because it makes a huge difference and I saw hundreds of incidents of the years that caused problems...

Attended, hence why I asked.

They had dress codes but not uniform policies. If someone showed up with an undershirt (often called "wifebeater" or "muscle shirt") they'd get sent home. But I never did see an actual problem being caused by someone's clothing, let alone a problem resulting from the absence of uniforms.

 

[Bodi]

Attended, hence why I asked.

They had dress codes but not uniform policies. If someone showed up with an undershirt (often called "wifebeater" or "muscle shirt") they'd get sent home. But I never did see an actual problem being caused by someone's clothing, let alone a problem resulting from the absence of uniforms.

gang related colors/styles and drug related shirts, logo's or print alone caused tons of problems, distractions, behaviour issues, fights, etc.

Belly shirts, short shorts, low cleavage showing tops, tattoos, goth clothing, etc caused tons more...

 

[clownboy]

We may have gone too far in teaching kids that they are inherently special little snowflakes, but I wouldn't remedy that by going too far in the other direction and trying to teach them that they are fungible. I also never saw a single incident in the non-uniform schools I attended where somebody's clothing caused a negative impact on education or anything else.

I really don't understand the praise for school uniforms. What are they supposed to accomplish?



I'm betting that kids don't behave better simply because they are made to wear specific clothing. I'm betting that if they appear to behave better in uniform, it's because a school that requires uniform also has a bunch of other rules that are stricter than non-uniform schools, and it is those rules & consequences that produce the perceived effect.

I attended a public HS in the 1960s and it was an every day occurrence where someone's clothing choices did cause everything from distraction to disruption. Now, try to tell us the mini skirt did not distract boys of our generation, that should be good for a belly laugh.

 

[d0gbreath]

What luck!!! Hitler stopped by to pose with his Gestapo. Wow, and we were just talking about the fascist uniform. Amazing timing...

View attachment 67203514

Debating you IS senseless because you will fail to see that the argument of uniforms is not about creating little KKK members it us about controlling some behaviours in a mandated environment where learning is the focus and not what you wear, not to mention gang stuff... but you go off with your Orwellian Maoist Nightmare all you like. :lol:




Oy veh! :roll:

From school uniform to fast food uniform.





This is not good.

 

[d0gbreath]

Sounds like you went to a ****ty school because nobody makes fun of anybody here... or in any of the schools I taught at. I work as a dean and middle managment and have many discussions with parents and students about it. If you had more experience, or any actually as an educator, it would help make you look less foolish.

You don't seem to comprehend the ugly American. I understand.

 

[Bodi]

From school uniform to fast food uniform.

This is not good.

It is good... ...low income workers that follow orders well. That is what we educators plan for our new fascist society...

 

[Bodi]

You don't seem to comprehend the ugly American. I understand.

They can wear whatever style they like that fits their body best once they graduate or outside of school...

 

[d0gbreath]

They can wear whatever style they like that fits their body best once they graduate or outside of school...

We staged a sit-in in my HS when I was a sophomore. The administrators abolished the dress code (nowhere near uniforms) and we lived happily ever after.

Somewhere a case made it to a high court, and they proclaimed that telling you how to dress was unconstitutional. There abouts 1969.

A generation later, I'm reading about these schools and their ability to suppress individuality. We worked hard to get rid of it. Solidarity armbands that L7s would try to take off your arm. I put thumbtacks through mine as a defense mechanism.

The thing is, we won, but the next group of kids didn't care about anything but video games.

 

[d0gbreath]

It is good... ...low income workers that follow orders well. That is what we educators plan for our new fascist society...

Demons! The lot of you.

 

[Henrin]

We staged a sit-in in my HS when I was a sophomore. The administrators abolished the dress code (nowhere near uniforms) and we lived happily ever after.

Somewhere a case made it to a high court, and they proclaimed that telling you how to dress was unconstitutional. There abouts 1969.

A generation later, I'm reading about these schools and their ability to suppress individuality. We worked hard to get rid of it. Solidarity armbands that L7s would try to take of your arm. I put thumbtacks through mine as a defense mechanism.

The thing is, we won, but the next group of kids didn't care about anything but video games.

Yup, those people looking to oppress will never rest, so every generation must keep the fight against them alive and well.

 

[Henrin]

What luck!!! Hitler stopped by to pose with his Gestapo. Wow, and we were just talking about the fascist uniform. Amazing timing...

View attachment 67203514

Debating you IS senseless because you will fail to see that the argument of uniforms is not about creating little KKK members it us about controlling some behaviours in a mandated environment where learning is the focus and not what you wear, not to mention gang stuff... but you go off with your Orwellian Maoist Nightmare all you like. :lol:




Oy veh! :roll:

They decided to work there, they're not forced to stay, and they're getting paid.

 

[clownboy]

We staged a sit-in in my HS when I was a sophomore. The administrators abolished the dress code (nowhere near uniforms) and we lived happily ever after.

Somewhere a case made it to a high court, and they proclaimed that telling you how to dress was unconstitutional. There abouts 1969.

A generation later, I'm reading about these schools and their ability to suppress individuality. We worked hard to get rid of it. Solidarity armbands that L7s would try to take off your arm. I put thumbtacks through mine as a defense mechanism.

The thing is, we won, but the next group of kids didn't care about anything but video games.

Yeah, yeah. Except that's not what Tinker was about, at all. That SCOTUS case (Tinker v Des Moines Education Department) was about some kids who wanted to protest the Vietnam war at school and they all chose to wear black armbands. They won the right to wear black armbands.

Schools after the decision and before were still legally empowered to have dress codes.

 

[d0gbreath]

Yeah, yeah. Except that's not what Tinker was about, at all. That SCOTUS case (Tinker v Des Moines Education Department) was about some kids who wanted to protest the Vietnam war at school and they all chose to wear black armbands. They won the right to wear black armbands.

Schools after the decision and before were still legally empowered to have dress codes.

Thank you for looking up the case. I think my school looked at the results of that case and went overboard on the side of safe practices.

It was the first time that I was ever allowed to wear denim jeans to school. Kids in most schools now wear shorts. That was verboten when I was a child.

 

[Bodi]

We staged a sit-in in my HS when I was a sophomore. The administrators abolished the dress code (nowhere near uniforms) and we lived happily ever after.

Somewhere a case made it to a high court, and they proclaimed that telling you how to dress was unconstitutional. There abouts 1969.

A generation later, I'm reading about these schools and their ability to suppress individuality. We worked hard to get rid of it. Solidarity armbands that L7s would try to take off your arm. I put thumbtacks through mine as a defense mechanism.

The thing is, we won, but the next group of kids didn't care about anything but video games.

Society changes... *shrugs*

I look at how kids dressed back then and think, "damn, look at how nice they all look, girls with nice skirts, boys with tucked in button down shrits!?!?"

Not like that anymore... hoodies, big jackets, low hanging pants, etc. My generation, high school '86-90 was the last to dress acceptable. A few years later the gang culture baggy pants falling off your ass style started, kids started talking back, parents started backing their bratty kids,e tc.

Demons! The lot of you.

I pretend to be a Kiwi!

 

[clownboy]

Thank you for looking up the case. I think my school looked at the results of that case and went overboard on the side of safe practices.

It was the first time that I was ever allowed to wear denim jeans to school. Kids in most schools now wear shorts. That was verboten when I was a child.

I remember the case. Like your HS mates ours were suing over the dress code as well - hair length was the issue. Boys couldn't have hair over the collar.