Report: At least 3 killed, shooter dead, after attack at California school

[apdst]

Arm a child as they enter school, that'll do it.

No, but the faculty can be armed.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I posted those studies numerous times. and when you count juvenile gangbangers its even higher

it's 86% in philly alone.


If you take out those involved in shootings who have criminal records, we are in the bottom 1/3 in rates vs western europe.

 

[ultmd]

And when that doesn't do any good you all will want to ban some more types and then more types and more and so on.

The only thing you fokks ever offer are gun bans and lies. Until you have something better...

/conversation on guns.

This is a typical, intellectually dishonest argument.

First, you posted this in direct response to a long list of policy proposals that have nothing to do "gun bans". So your response is disingenuous (at best) and just flat-out disceitful (at worst). And you know it.

And secondly, because we already KNOW that the proposals I've laid out have worked to virtually eliminate mass shootings in every other western democracy that has enacted them.

As always, opposition to gun control by the NRA wingnuts is just a putrid mix of fake news...old, thoroughly discredited lies and myths....and ideology-based ignorance.

 

[Manc Skipper]

No, but the faculty can be armed.

So the kids get locked down with an armed adult in every classroom? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Lursa]

So the kids get locked down with an armed adult in every classroom? What could possibly go wrong?

As opposed to sitting waiting for them to shoot their way in and shoot everyone unhindered?

 

[Manc Skipper]

As opposed to sitting waiting for them to shoot their way in and shoot everyone unhindered?

Much more efficient to be locked in with one.

 

[Lursa]

Much more efficient to be locked in with one.

So your claim is that the teachers will shoot the students? And they're better off as sitting ducks.

Thanks, you now have zero credibility in discussions and I will keep that in mind in the future....dishonest and stupid and wilfully ignorant are to be avoided or called out. That's about it.

 

[Manc Skipper]

So your claim is that the teachers will shoot the students? And they're better off as sitting ducks.

Thanks, you now have zero credibility in discussions and I will keep that in mind in the future....dishonest and stupid and wilfully ignorant are to be avoided or called out. That's about it.

Better to ensure that the access to guns by the deranged is reduced, which the NRA blocked, than introduce guns into the classroom, where accidents can happen. Residents of homes with guns have an increased risk of gun injury or death. Why would schools be different?

 

[FastPace]

No it wasn't. stop listening to liberal freaks and do your own research.



3 people were shot in a chicago starbucks, where were you guys?

3 in Newark, where were you?

5 in maryland, where were you?


I could go on and on and on and on and on...........


If your coveted "mass shootings" were legit, you'd not whine only when white people got shot. The fact is, blacks shooting others is usually by people with illegal guns who also happen to be black and you all don't care to wet an eye over it because it doesn't help your bull**** agenda.

It's because they see blacks almost always killing other blacks. So, they don't identify themselves with being part of that victim class. But when they see whites getting capped on TV they fear it could happen to them.

In either case whether white American or ethnic Black-American it comes back to prayers and well wishes like this:

Chaplain remembers slain son during emotional vigil

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Published 6:50 p.m. CT Nov. 14, 2017 | Updated 7:07 p.m. CT Nov. 14, 2017

Her 23-year-old son, Donovan Hines, was shot and killed while driving a car early Monday. After the shooting, his car crashed into a house on N. 29th St. just south of W. Hampton Ave.

As of Tuesday evening, no arrests had been reported in her son's killing. Her fellow chaplains offered prayers of support and calls for justice.

I don't begrudge the woman gathering for prayers for her son. I understand she uses that--rightly so--as comfort and to let her son know he is not forgotten.

The thing is... this is the primary way non-related people, non-friends, in the USA have been for decades addressing the murder problems. The societal problem is dealt with superficially. And nothing is really going to change. And any foreigner who thinks Americans actually have a 10th of a deep down desire and will to change is as about as dumb as the Americans with their "lets repeat the same thing over, and over, and over, and over and maybe one day unicorns might fly over and sprinkle magic dust on us causing everything to change for the better."

 

[BitterPill]

And the story doesn't even show up yet on CNN's front page. Guess that school shootings really are the new normal. 'MURICA!

We must arm our kids! Just think, if all those tykes at school had Mini-14's, no one would mess with them. They wouldn't have to take naps when their parents told them, go to the dentist or eat vegetables. In fact, they wouldn't even have to go to school, and then when some mentally unstable white person who should be in treatment, or some dastardly, evil Muslim who should be in a FEMA camp showed-up to shoot them down, there would only be teachers there, and they're all liberals, so they'll be unarmed and get their just deserts.

MAGA, baby, MAGA!

 

[ultmd]

Yeah...the people who created the founding documents were totes paranoid for no good reason. Sorry, but the 2A is one of the founding pillars of my country. Why? Because governments are responsible for more killing than what any individual person could do. It's not even close.

Geez, another Constitutionally ignorant right winger who thinks the 2nd Amendment has no restrictions. :roll:

I realize that most righties avoid challenging reading in favor of short, self-affirming reading material, but it sure would be nice if some of you guys actual READ the Constitution and the seminal case literature and legislation on the 2A (like U.S. v Miller in the late 1930's, Gun Control Act of '68, Brady Bill of the 90's, etc.).

The idea........ANY idea......that 2nd Amendment rights are without limits or restrictions is a reflection of the ignorance created by decades of of right wing fake news which the NRA gun nuts put on display every day on this board.

 

[VanceMack]

OK all you folk that really want to talk about how we solve the gun problems in America. Lets have that dialogue.

"With the Glock 17 in hand, prosecutors were able to go to court with the weapon used to fire on law enforcement.
The initial buyer, Baker, pleaded guilty to lying on the federal firearms forms.
Morgan, who sold the guns, pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting the making of a false statement in the purchase of a firearm.
Each was sentenced in 2015 to more than a year in prison. They and their attorneys did not respond to interview requests for this story.
The Hayes brothers’ friend pleaded guilty to a long list of crimes that included possessing the unregistered Ruger and Glock and his role as the driver on the night of the police shootings.
In February 2016, Ronald Hayes was sentenced to 16 months in prison for being an accessory after the fact for his role in the gun case and the officer shootings.
The shooter, Romeo Hayes, pleaded guilty to eight felonies, including assault with intent to kill Stallings and assault with a dangerous weapon for the attack on Gaines. He got 10 years in prison."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...cycle-of-gun-violence/?utm_term=.49476792b268

There are roughly 9500 dead bodies every year due to just this kind of problem. Many thousands more shot and wounded. And the "answer" seems obvious.

Lock them up. Not for a year...for 20...for the facilitiation of the crime and for the intentional illegal purchase and marketing of a firearm. Throw on another 20 years as accessories. Lock away the people behind the trigger for 40 years. Minimum.

That will work to address the vast majority of day to day violence in this country.

Wouldnt you agree?

 

[apdst]

So the kids get locked down with an armed adult in every classroom? What could possibly go wrong?

You tell us

 

[ultmd]

OK all you folk that really want to talk about how we solve the gun problems in America. Lets have that dialogue.

"With the Glock 17 in hand, prosecutors were able to go to court with the weapon used to fire on law enforcement.
The initial buyer, Baker, pleaded guilty to lying on the federal firearms forms.
Morgan, who sold the guns, pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting the making of a false statement in the purchase of a firearm.
Each was sentenced in 2015 to more than a year in prison. They and their attorneys did not respond to interview requests for this story.
The Hayes brothers’ friend pleaded guilty to a long list of crimes that included possessing the unregistered Ruger and Glock and his role as the driver on the night of the police shootings.
In February 2016, Ronald Hayes was sentenced to 16 months in prison for being an accessory after the fact for his role in the gun case and the officer shootings.
The shooter, Romeo Hayes, pleaded guilty to eight felonies, including assault with intent to kill Stallings and assault with a dangerous weapon for the attack on Gaines. He got 10 years in prison."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...cycle-of-gun-violence/?utm_term=.49476792b268

There are roughly 9500 dead bodies every year due to just this kind of problem. Many thousands more shot and wounded. And the "answer" seems obvious.

Lock them up. Not for a year...for 20...for the facilitiation of the crime and for the intentional illegal purchase and marketing of a firearm. Throw on another 20 years as accessories. Lock away the people behind the trigger for 40 years. Minimum.

That will work to address the vast majority of day to day violence in this country.

Wouldnt you agree?

No.

Unfortunately, fear of punishment is not a deterrent, in large part (social scientists agree) because in the vast majority of gun murder/homicide cases the killer acts out of emotion (be it anger, hatred, fear, malevolence, ideology, etc.) or mental illness.

The specter of pending punishment is not a deterrent, especially in mass shooting incidents.

 

[ultmd]

So your claim is that the teachers will shoot the students? And they're better off as sitting ducks.

Thanks, you now have zero credibility in discussions and I will keep that in mind in the future....dishonest and stupid and wilfully ignorant are to be avoided or called out. That's about it.

I don't think so.

All he did was present a scenario equally as far-fetched as yours.

 

[jaeger19]

Oh really? Other than doing nothing...what is it that you are advocating for to address the epidemic of gun violence in America today?

Well first.. we need to realize that its not "gun violence". Focusing on the object and not on the real issue.. the person is a recipe for disaster. (The same can be said for focusing on heroin, or opiod, and not on the addiction of the person).

So.. when we look at things like school shootings, mass shootings, suicides etc. Why are they occurring? Often there is a history or at least some issue with mental health. So improving access to mental health.. decreasing the stigma for people getting mental, having access to early treatment rather than only when a person is in crisis... All those things could lower the violence in this country.

Lets look at our drug situation in America. We have concentrated lots of money on drug enforcement and bans. We lock a LOT of non violent offenders. Which is a lot of police time and money. What if instead of drug bans.. we focused on treatment for addiction.. instead of using the prison system as a rehab center? Then we free up money and prison space for getting really violent criminals off the streets. A fellow that beat his wife near to death.. gets out early because there is no space for him in prison. Because we are busy filling it with non violent meth users.

in fact.. we free up money so that we can actually prosecute felons that try to purchase firearms..and get them back on parole so they can be monitored.

Just a few easy suggestions on how we can curb violence in America.

 

[VanceMack]

No.

Unfortunately, fear of punishment is not a deterrent, in large part (social scientists agree) because in the vast majority of gun murder/homicide cases the killer acts out of emotion (be it anger, hatred, fear, malevolence, ideology, etc.) or mental illness.

The specter of pending punishment is not a deterrent, especially in mass shooting incidents.

Its not a question of fear of punishment. Its taking perpetrators out of the game. So...KNOWING there are those ****ers COMMITTING the crimes that are responsible for the deaths of around 10,000 victims a year, you wouldnt be OK with putting the very people RESPONSIBLE for committing these acts away?

 

[jaeger19]

Well....once again you are wrong.

nope.. but thanks for playing.

 

[jaeger19]

So the kids get locked down with an armed adult in every classroom? What could possibly go wrong?

Let me get this straight..

you don't trust the teachers now?

 

[Lursa]

I don't think so.

All he did was present a scenario equally as far-fetched as yours.

Well, I have a sad, long list of classroom shootings with unarmed teachers and no examples where armed teachers have shot their unarmed students.

So...your perception was not particularly accurate.

 

[jaeger19]

Its not a question of fear of punishment. Its taking perpetrators out of the game. So...KNOWING there are those ****ers COMMITTING the crimes that are responsible for the deaths of around 10,000 victims a year, you wouldnt be OK with putting the very people RESPONSIBLE for committing these acts away?

What? You mean we should actually do something about violent criminals? How absurd.

Obviously they are not the problem.. its all those people aren't committing crimes that need to have a background check!.. :roll:

Wait for it.. I figure one of is going to be called a "right wing gun nut".. soon. It seems the only response ultmd has when his premise is blown.... Three two one........:lamo

 

[Manc Skipper]

Let me get this straight..

you don't trust the teachers now?

Where will the gun be safely kept away from the kiddies?

 

[VanceMack]

What? You mean we should actually do something about violent criminals? How absurd.

Obviously they are not the problem.. its all those people aren't committing crimes that need to have a background check!.. :roll:

Wait for it.. I figure one of is going to be called a "right wing gun nut".. soon. It seems the only response ultmd has when his premise is blown.... Three two one........:lamo

Thats the thing. All these guys say the same thing. "No one wants to talk about the problem..." but thats not true. I see 9500 dead people a year as a real ****ing problem and one that we can address pretty aggressively. But THEIR response is "whoa whoa whoa....we dont want to talk about the 9500 dead people every year...we want to talk about the 1-200 or so that we can use to attack gun ownership"

 

[jaeger19]

Where will the gun be safely kept away from the kiddies?

Biometric lock boxes are a thought, or coded lock boxes. . Carried concealed on the teacher would be better.

 

[VanceMack]

Where will the gun be safely kept away from the kiddies?

Whats wrong with the holster on my hip? Its concealed. You wont see it. You wont know about it. Do you have a problem with that? Hell...for that matter...how about a handgun safe activated by fingerprints bolted under the desk top. Would that satisfy you? I mean...its a great question...one you are Im sure sincere about. So...does that answer satisfy you?