Poll: Should BLM Be Stopped Before They Start A Full-Blown Race War?

[bomberfox]

Bomber,
You posted a good one: "Affirmative action requires equal qualifications."

Tell that to the Asians who present high SAT scores to get into colleges of their choice only to lose out to a person of color with lower scores. That is called unequal qualifications. That is not anecdotal. That is documented.

Read the definition of Affirmative Action:
Affirmative action originally referred to a set of policies and practices preventing discrimination based on race, creed, color and national origins. It now often refers to policies positively supporting members of disadvantaged or underrepresented groups that have previously suffered discrimination in areas such as education, employment and housing.[1][2][3][4] Historically and internationally, support for affirmative action has sought to achieve goals such as bridging inequalities in employment and pay, increasing access to education, promoting diversity, and redressing apparent past wrongs, harms, or hindrances.

You didnt post the source of that information. To be fair i should have been more specific to different areas of application but the definition does not imply what you say.

In the United Kingdom, hiring someone simply because of their protected group status, without regard to their performance, is illegal.[7][8][9] However, the law in the United Kingdom does allow for membership in a protected and disadvantaged group to be considered in hiring and promotion when the group is under-represented in a given area and if the candidates are of equal merit. The controlling logic is that the person must not be chosen simply because of their group membership, but rather that the relevant authorities are allowed to use disadvantaged group status as a "tie-breaker" between two candidates of otherwise equal merit.[10] This is functionally the same as the practice known as "affirmative action" in the United States.

I referred to this part, the tie breaker part.

 

[SmartCat]

Nope. Affirmative action requires equal qualifications. Again personal anecdotes are not evidence. Affirmative action - Wikipedia

If you cant argue outside unverifiable anecdotes, thats a real mark of an unintelligent person

I did not find anything in there that says affirmative action requires equal qualifications. If I missed something, quote it word for word. Because there is a fifteen point gap in IQ averages between whites and blacks it is not possible to achieve anything close to racial parity without admitting and hiring blacks who cannot perform adequately.

 

[SmartCat]

Overcome racial advantages whut? None of this negates the bull**** that he wrote which promotes dead pseudoscience of eugenics, misunderstands heritability, and in his attempt to rebut critics, he specifically says he leaves out other variables because it would be too hard when better educated individuals have modeled those variables.
Again anecdotes are not evidence.

The Dana Foundation, "Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter," July 1, 2000, by Linda S. Gottfredson, Ph.D.

A 1988 survey of IQ experts, journalists, and science editors revealed that the journalists and editors hold views in nearly diametric opposition to those of the IQ experts. The survey’s analysis of the major newspapers and magazines revealed, not surprisingly, that their coverage of intelligence is “quite inaccurate.” News stories, for instance, usually leave the false impression that mental tests are culturally biased and that only fringe scientists think that genes have an important influence on intelligence...

Dismayed by the media disinformation attending The Bell Curve controversy, 52 prominent researchers from 34 universities and research centers published a Wall Street Journal editorial page statement in 1994 called “Mainstream Science on Intelligence.” These scientists, the antithesis of ideologues, have published thousands of scientific articles and hundreds of books defining the frontiers of intelligence research. They include many recipients of coveted awards and many past presidents of major scientific associations. Appearing several months into the firestorm over The Bell Curve, the joint statement simply recited the most settled facts in the field, facts that had been depicted over and over again in news and commen*tary as “controversial” or “discredited.” A second consensus statement appeared two years later in the form of an official task force report from the most pertinent scientific organization, the American Psychological Association. “Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns” offered essentially the same portrait of mainstream scientific opinion on the nature, origins, and predictive value of intelligence. Both statements suggested that The Bell Curve’s portrayal of intelligence was basically accurate.4 Neither statement had any discernible impact on media reporting.

Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter | Dana Foundation

 

[Luce]

The Dana Foundation, "Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter," July 1, 2000, by Linda S. Gottfredson, Ph.D.

A 1988 survey of IQ experts, journalists, and science editors revealed that the journalists and editors hold views in nearly diametric opposition to those of the IQ experts. The survey’s analysis of the major newspapers and magazines revealed, not surprisingly, that their coverage of intelligence is “quite inaccurate.” News stories, for instance, usually leave the false impression that mental tests are culturally biased and that only fringe scientists think that genes have an important influence on intelligence...

Dismayed by the media disinformation attending The Bell Curve controversy, 52 prominent researchers from 34 universities and research centers published a Wall Street Journal editorial page statement in 1994 called “Mainstream Science on Intelligence.” These scientists, the antithesis of ideologues, have published thousands of scientific articles and hundreds of books defining the frontiers of intelligence research. They include many recipients of coveted awards and many past presidents of major scientific associations. Appearing several months into the firestorm over The Bell Curve, the joint statement simply recited the most settled facts in the field, facts that had been depicted over and over again in news and commen*tary as “controversial” or “discredited.” A second consensus statement appeared two years later in the form of an official task force report from the most pertinent scientific organization, the American Psychological Association. “Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns” offered essentially the same portrait of mainstream scientific opinion on the nature, origins, and predictive value of intelligence. Both statements suggested that The Bell Curve’s portrayal of intelligence was basically accurate.4 Neither statement had any discernible impact on media reporting.

Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter | Dana Foundation

Imagine defending The Bell Curve in the 21st century.

 

[Ontologuy]

So let's look at the poll this morning with this link's breakdown of liberal, moderate, and conservative in mind: [URL="https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx"]https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx[/URL].

According to the link for late 2019 posted in January, 2020 reflecting adults, 35% of the country identifies as conservative, 35% of the country identifies as middle of the road moderate, and 26% of the country identifies as liberal. 4% don't identify as any of the three.

I speculate the breakdown reflects age, as younger people tend more to be liberal, whereas once they hit their thirties in the work force they mellow out moderately, and by the time they're in their fifties they've become more conservative where they remain the rest of their life. There are, of course, exceptions, but this is a pretty good rule of thumb.

Today our poll here has liberals saying 22-1 that BLM should just keep bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets.

Middle of the road moderates are saying 5-3 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

Conservatives are saying 14-2 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

So if we here are any indicator of the country at large ..

.. 95.65 % of liberals here favor BLM. Since liberals are 26% of the country, that's 26 times .9565 = 24.869% of the country favors BLM bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering. (Yep .. boggles the mind!)

62.5% of moderates here favor shutting BLM down. Since moderates are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .625 = 21.875% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

87.5% of conservatives here favor shutting BLM down. Since conservatives are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .875 = 30.625% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

This means that 1.131 percent of liberals here want to shut BLM down, 13.125% of moderates support BLM, and 4.375% of conservatives support BLM.

So the percentage of Americans that support BLM: 24.869% plus 13.125% plus 4.375% = 42.369%

And the percentage of Americans opposed to BLM: 21.875% plus 30.625% plus 1.131% = 53.631%

Leaving 4% unaccounted for.

Thus, clearly the majority of America is opposed to BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering.

And the vast majority of BLM's support comes from just one ideology: liberals.

Maybe that's why Biden has postponed his decision on picking a Black woman for VP, as all three founders of BLM are Black women .. who are Marxist! .. and the percentages here show that won't give Biden any advantage, and may just put him at a disadvantage! :shock:

And indeed, according to this link, 70% of Americans say BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder and it's "cancel culture" in our universities has NOT improved race relations, and more people say BLM has actually harmed race relations than otherwise: Black Lives Matter Gallup Poll: 70 Percent of Americans Say Movement Has Not Helped Race Relations | National Review. :shock:

And now that BLM has showcased it's Marxist violence on TV for two months, 57% have a negative view of them, which comes close to matching our poll here at Debate Politics: Poll: 57 percent have negative view of Black Lives Matter movement | TheHill. Likely only BLM cultist-minded liberals are in lock-step delusional support of BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder. :roll:

Clearly, "support" for BLM is fading .. and I can't help but wonder if Biden in considering the four Black women as VP candidates is now thinking "Uh-oh!"

 

[SmartCat]

Imagine defending The Bell Curve in the 21st century.

Assertions made in The Bell Curve are agreed on by scientists who have made a specialty of IQ research. I have difficulty imagining why these assertions are still controversial when they have been confirmed by the failures of Head Start and No Child Left Behind. The following chart demonstrates that more money spent on public schools has not resulted in better performance.

 

[Luce]

Assertions made in The Bell Curve are agreed on by scientists who have made a specialty of IQ research. I have difficulty imagining why these assertions are still controversial when they have been confirmed by the failures of Head Start and No Child Left Behind. The following chart demonstrates that more money spent on public schools has not resulted in better performance.

View attachment 67290050

"CATO institute."

 

[Ontologuy]

Too bad I'm late to this poster party. I just noticed you are already 25 pages into it.
None of the choices make for good answers.
The BLM movement cannot be stopped. You can't stop a peaceful protest - if, in fact, it really is peaceful.
And there will be no race war. Are you suggesting 13 percent of the population going to war against 87 percent of the population?

The OP linked thread has an article in its OP that clearly presents without any real doubt that BLM is indeed fanning a race war.

BLM is a violent Marxist organization with a very racist anti-White policy that's being played out in the streets of America via BLM's rank and file bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder.

White people are getting quite tired of this, to say the least .. yet BLM just keeps on doing it.

As the post I just made above shows, BLM is harming race relations.

And, yes, I do believe the writer of the article is accurate -- if BLM is not stopped, if support is not withdrawn from it, they will initiate a race war.

Yes, as dumb as that sounds with the percentages being what they are (13% plus the percentage of other races in lock-step alignment against 67% percent), and as damaging as that will be to the country, yes, I think BLM may succeed in fanning a race war.

Again, BLM doesn't care about winning a race war. They just want to destabilize America, being the Marxist cult that they are, as they then believe that in the resolution of the ensuing chaos that they will come to power -- typical Marxists.

And they don't care who they hurt .. and kill .. in the process.

 

[Luce]

The OP linked thread has an article in its OP that clearly presents without any real doubt that BLM is indeed fanning a race war.

The OP is a fraud of an article, with no listed author.

 

[Luce]

Leaving aside completely how badly it was written.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Assertions made in The Bell Curve are agreed on by scientists who have made a specialty of IQ research.

There are no reputable "scientists" who endorse Murray's central argument in the BC that "race" is a determinate factor in IQ levels. Murray can't even come to grips with the consistent gains in black IQ over the last 30 years.

I have difficulty imagining why these assertions are still controversial when they have been confirmed by the failures of Head Start and No Child Left Behind. The following chart demonstrates that more money spent on public schools has not resulted in better performance.

View attachment 67290050

The cost increases for k-12, especially in urban areas, are often attributable to increases in property cost for new schools.

But hey, you have a great combo at work here, Murrayism and charterism.

 

[Jonsa]

So let's look at the poll this morning with this link's breakdown of liberal, moderate, and conservative in mind: [URL="https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx"]https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/leans-conservative-liberals-keep-recent-gains.aspx[/URL].

According to the link for late 2019 posted in January, 2020 reflecting adults, 35% of the country identifies as conservative, 35% of the country identifies as middle of the road moderate, and 26% of the country identifies as liberal. 4% don't identify as any of the three.

I speculate the breakdown reflects age, as younger people tend more to be liberal, whereas once they hit their thirties in the work force they mellow out moderately, and by the time they're in their fifties they've become more conservative where they remain the rest of their life. There are, of course, exceptions, but this is a pretty good rule of thumb.

Today our poll here has liberals saying 22-1 that BLM should just keep bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets.

Middle of the road moderates are saying 5-3 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

Conservatives are saying 14-2 that BLM should be stopped from bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering out there in our city streets, and shut down altogether.

So if we here are any indicator of the country at large ..

.. 95.65 % of liberals here favor BLM. Since liberals are 26% of the country, that's 26 times .9565 = 24.869% of the country favors BLM bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering. (Yep .. boggles the mind!)

62.5% of moderates here favor shutting BLM down. Since moderates are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .625 = 21.875% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

87.5% of conservatives here favor shutting BLM down. Since conservatives are 35% of the country, that's 35 times .875 = 30.625% of the country favors stopping BLM altogether.

This means that 1.131 percent of liberals here want to shut BLM down, 13.125% of moderates support BLM, and 4.375% of conservatives support BLM.

So the percentage of Americans that support BLM: 24.869% plus 13.125% plus 4.375% = 42.369%

And the percentage of Americans opposed to BLM: 21.875% plus 30.625% plus 1.131% = 53.631%

Leaving 4% unaccounted for.

Thus, clearly the majority of America is opposed to BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assaulting and murdering.

And the vast majority of BLM's support comes from just one ideology: liberals.

Maybe that's why Biden has postponed his decision on picking a Black woman for VP, as all three founders of BLM are Black women .. who are Marxist! .. and the percentages here show that won't give Biden any advantage, and may just put him at a disadvantage! :shock:

And indeed, according to this link, 70% of Americans say BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder and it's "cancel culture" in our universities has NOT improved race relations, and more people say BLM has actually harmed race relations than otherwise: Black Lives Matter Gallup Poll: 70 Percent of Americans Say Movement Has Not Helped Race Relations | National Review. :shock:

And now that BLM has showcased it's Marxist violence on TV for two months, 57% have a negative view of them, which comes close to matching our poll here at Debate Politics: Poll: 57 percent have negative view of Black Lives Matter movement | TheHill. Likely only BLM cultist-minded liberals are in lock-step delusional support of BLM's bullying, rioting, looting, assault and murder. :roll:

Clearly, "support" for BLM is fading .. and I can't help but wonder if Biden in considering the four Black women as VP candidates is now thinking "Uh-oh!"

are you seriously offering up an analysis of this polls results as if its anyway indicative of reality? Man that is scraping the bottom of the barrel to find positive support.

 

[bomberfox]

"CATO institute."

I mean if we can take from alt-right journals and eugenics organizations CATO is sure to be a winnar! smart cat is lying about scientists not finding the heritability argument problematic. He is trying to show the supposed failure of two programs to demonstrate the heritability of a trait which shows he doesnt understand heritability either.

 

[bomberfox]

There are no reputable "scientists" who endorse Murray's central argument in the BC that "race" is a determinate factor in IQ levels. Murray can't even come to grips with the consistent gains in black IQ over the last 30 years.




The cost increases for k-12, especially in urban areas, are often attributable to increases in property cost for new schools.

But hey, you have a great combo at work here, Murrayism and charterism.

He also neglects costs rising is not an indicator of how much is spent by the federal government.

 

[bomberfox]

Also smurt cat. Why are you running with your tail between your legs from demonstrating you personally have any knowledge of how to determine heritability and what it means? Ever chart and graph you presented so far shows you dont.

 

[bomberfox]

The Dana Foundation, "Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter," July 1, 2000, by Linda S. Gottfredson, Ph.D.

A 1988 survey of IQ experts, journalists, and science editors revealed that the journalists and editors hold views in nearly diametric opposition to those of the IQ experts. The survey’s analysis of the major newspapers and magazines revealed, not surprisingly, that their coverage of intelligence is “quite inaccurate.” News stories, for instance, usually leave the false impression that mental tests are culturally biased and that only fringe scientists think that genes have an important influence on intelligence...

Dismayed by the media disinformation attending The Bell Curve controversy, 52 prominent researchers from 34 universities and research centers published a Wall Street Journal editorial page statement in 1994 called “Mainstream Science on Intelligence.” These scientists, the antithesis of ideologues, have published thousands of scientific articles and hundreds of books defining the frontiers of intelligence research. They include many recipients of coveted awards and many past presidents of major scientific associations. Appearing several months into the firestorm over The Bell Curve, the joint statement simply recited the most settled facts in the field, facts that had been depicted over and over again in news and commen*tary as “controversial” or “discredited.” A second consensus statement appeared two years later in the form of an official task force report from the most pertinent scientific organization, the American Psychological Association. “Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns” offered essentially the same portrait of mainstream scientific opinion on the nature, origins, and predictive value of intelligence. Both statements suggested that The Bell Curve’s portrayal of intelligence was basically accurate.4 Neither statement had any discernible impact on media reporting.

Pretending that Intelligence Doesn’t Matter | Dana Foundation

Why are you neglecting to show you know what heritability means?

 

[bomberfox]

I did not find anything in there that says affirmative action requires equal qualifications. If I missed something, quote it word for word. Because there is a fifteen point gap in IQ averages between whites and blacks it is not possible to achieve anything close to racial parity without admitting and hiring blacks who cannot perform adequately.

This is false but hey you have muh anecdotes right? I already posted the tie breaker requirement.

 

[bomberfox]

"How Heritability Misleads about Race" by Ned Block

Smurt cat where are you? Maybe your white genes are making you skeered. I should probably take this to an askenazi jew since they will be more genetically predisposed to knowing the answer than some dumb white hick according to Murtay.

 

[SmartCat]

"CATO institute."

I am not a libertarian, so I rarely agree with CATO Institute conclusions. Nevertheless, I believe that the organization has the integrity to make accurate factual assertions. It is important to distinguish between facts and opinions.

 

[Luce]

What you call "systemic racism" I call an understandable response to working in black ghetto neighborhoods. If proximity to Negroes dispelled prejudice, Southern whites would be the least prejudiced whites in the United States.

Holy crap. Now I feel dirty for having talked to SmartCat.

 

[SmartCat]

There are no reputable "scientists" who endorse Murray's central argument in the BC that "race" is a determinate factor in IQ levels. Murray can't even come to grips with the consistent gains in black IQ over the last 30 years.

I doubt much has changed since this was true:

=========================
2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================



SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: The ACT - Solutions for College and Career Readiness | ACT

Quote from attached SAT/ACT article:

"Readiness for college science and math coursework was particularly low among
African American students. Only 5 percent of African American test-takers scored
at or above the college-readiness benchmark for college biology, and just 10
percent attained the readiness benchmark for college algebra. Ferguson said
Black students were less likely than others to take tough, college-prep courses
and "often don't receive the information and guidance they need to properly plan
for college."

For overview and more info, go to:
FindArticles.com | CBSi
SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

If you can document recent improvements by blacks, please do so.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I am not a libertarian, so I rarely agree with CATO Institute conclusions. Nevertheless, I believe that the organization has the integrity to make accurate factual assertions. It is important to distinguish between facts and opinions.

The Murrayism that there remains a "15 point gap"...is not a "fact".

 

[Luce]

Never had a cop in your family?

Don't use me to excuse your racism.

 

[SmartCat]

This is false but hey you have muh anecdotes right? I already posted the tie breaker requirement.

Here is the website again.

Affirmative action - Wikipedia

Please quote word for word where it says that affirmative action in the United States does not require lowering standards for blacks.

 

[SmartCat]

The Murrayism that there remains a "15 point gap"...is not a "fact".

RACE, INTELLIGENCE, AND THE BRAIN: THE ERRORS AND OMISSIONS OF THE REVISED
EDITION OF S. J. GOULD'S THE MISMEASURE OF MAN

By J. Philippe Rushton

Department of Psychology
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario N6A 5C2

Gould withholds from his readers that The Bell Curve is mainly an empirical work about the causes of social stratification and that it reached its conclusions only after fully analyzing a 12-year longitudinal study of 12,486 youths (3,022 of whom were African American) which showed that most 17-year-olds with high IQs (Blacks as well as Whites) went on to occupational success by their late 20s and early 30s whereas many of those with low IQs (both Black and White) went on to welfare dependency. The average IQ for African Americans was found to be lower than those for Latino, White, Asian, and Jewish Americans (85, 89, 103, 106, and 115, respectively, pp. 273-278). Failure to mention these data fosters the false belief that IQ tests are not predictive and are biased in favor of North Europeans.
Article...

The IQ gap between blacks and whites may be greater than 115. Here is further confirmation of the race gap.