Non-marital sex

[Slartibartfast]

So, I am wondering -- if he REALLY did love me as much as he claims he does, wouldn't he have patience and wait as long as it takes? Instead, he recently gave an ultimatum, saying he has given up waiting and if someone else comes along he'll go for it.

He has changed his mind several times already. And he has talked about a former girlfriend, saying maybe they would get back together. And then denies it, saying that would never happen.

And sometimes he tells me his ex wife is beautiful. Well, if he and I were really serious that would make me angry and jealous.

This guy is manipulating you. Dump him.

 

[Good4Nothin]

That is the absolute stupidest argument I've heard for having sex there is. And I've heard it for years.

1) What if you love someone and the sex is poor or disappointing? Are you simply going to break up with them then? That is what the entire "test drive" argument would suggest.
2) Sexual compatibility or whatever its called is seldom something you arrive at by having sex with someone once, twice, or dozens of time. For more than a few couples it takes months and even years before they arrive at the point where they both are enjoying their sex life with each other. And even then changes occur over time.

Yeah that makes sense. It isn't like sexual compatibility is some unchanging thing.

 

[Good4Nothin]

This guy is manipulating you. Dump him.

It seems like he is trying to pressure me into it. Doesn't he realize pressuring is not a good strategy? That might be what turned me off from the beginning, so much emphasis on sex. And that was at a time when we didn't even know each other. Now it's 4 months later, so maybe it's understandable he is impatient. But you have to wonder, since he was talking about sex almost from day one.

One thing I wonder about though -- my generation (baby boom) is notorious for casual sex. I never was into that, but maybe he naturally assumed I would be?

 

[Slartibartfast]

It seems like he is trying to pressure me into it. Doesn't he realize pressuring is not a good strategy? That might be what turned me off from the beginning, so much emphasis on sex. And that was at a time when we didn't even know each other. Now it's 4 months later, so maybe it's understandable he is impatient. But you have to wonder, since he was talking about sex almost from day one.

I have had two good relationships in a life of a lot of looking. In both cases, there was no mental feeling of "this is wrong" even very early into the relationship. Honestly, if I had listened to that "this is wrong" I would have avoided the bad ones. I see no reason why my experience, in this case, would not be something that is universal. As it stems from the human need to be true to themselves.

If it is running counter to your instincts, there is a problem, and if that problem cannot be worked out, then its time to find a proper man. If this guy is attempting to force you to go against your instincts, whether physically, mentally, or emotionally, it is not a healthy situation for either of you and it is not something that can last unless one person just completely gives in. Often giving in on one issue will just lead to the expectation of you giving in on more as time goes by.

 

[Good4Nothin]

I have had two good relationships in a life of a lot of looking. In both cases, there was no mental feeling of "this is wrong" even very early into the relationship. Honestly, if I had listened to that "this is wrong" I would have avoided the bad ones. I see no reason why my experience, in this case, would not be something that is universal. As it stems from the human need to be true to themselves.

If it is running counter to your instincts, there is a problem, and if that problem cannot be worked out, then its time to find a proper man. If this guy is attempting to force you to go against your instincts, whether physically, mentally, or emotionally, it is not a healthy situation for either of you and it is not something that can last unless one person just completely gives in. Often giving in on one issue will just lead to the expectation of you giving in on more as time goes by.

Well I figured that all men would be like this, and if I wanted a romantic relationship I have to accept it. Why didn't I just feel like jumping into bed from the beginning. I really do not know. I had 2 relationships in my life, and in both I jumped right in at the beginning. Because I thought that was normal. Now I don't know what is normal.

 

[cpwill]

So, I am wondering -- if he REALLY did love me as much as he claims he does, wouldn't he have patience and wait as long as it takes? Instead, he recently gave an ultimatum, saying he has given up waiting and if someone else comes along he'll go for it.

He has changed his mind several times already. And he has talked about a former girlfriend, saying maybe they would get back together. And then denies it, saying that would never happen.

And sometimes he tells me his ex wife is beautiful. Well, if he and I were really serious that would make me angry and jealous.

Oh jeez. None of that is good, most of it is controlling, and half of that is downright manipulative and ****ty. Trying to make you feel like your position is at risk, and you have to prove yourself to him by letting him take you for a test drive?

Yes. You are right to wonder, because that is seemingly correct. This guy might be interested to using you, but he doesn't seem interested in sacrificially or caringly loving you.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[cpwill]

Well I figured that all men would be like this, and if I wanted a romantic relationship I have to accept it. Why didn't I just feel like jumping into bed from the beginning. I really do not know. I had 2 relationships in my life, and in both I jumped right in at the beginning. Because I thought that was normal. Now I don't know what is normal.

Normal is irrelevant. Lots of things that are bad - and some that are good - are "normal". What - and who - are YOU worth? Because it sounds like you are worth "30 Year Marriage", not "quick thrust".

 

[Slartibartfast]

Well I figured that all men would be like this, and if I wanted a romantic relationship I have to accept it. Why didn't I just feel like jumping into bed from the beginning. I really do not know. I had 2 relationships in my life, and in both I jumped right in at the beginning. Because I thought that was normal. Now I don't know what is normal.

Not all guys are like that, but many are. We have some powerful instincts. But one thing I do know is if you stick to your guns then you will find someone who is more compatible when it comes to shared morals and this is not something you are doomed to put up with.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am still grieving, and it's had to imagine sex with anyone else. I never was wild at all. Like a lot of other women, the best orgasms were always DIY. Sex is for expressing love and making a man happy. I can live without sex, but I like having a close relationship with a man. Although I can live without that also.

Then you should heal, you should seek comfort first, you should finish working through your grief.
You need family, close friends, confidants, and if you are seeking a relationship while this goes on, then they need to exhibit patience and accept the possibility that your journey toward healing may not even include them when all is said and done.
I apologize for appearing cavalier but if it's too soon, it's too soon and I get no joy from your suffering, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

That's how he feels about sex, like it's healthy and joyful, and necessary, etc., like you said. But I feel really good without it. My departed bf always needed me to have an orgasm, so I always had to worry about that. I had better orgasms alone. I loved the physical contact, but it was stressful.

I definitely don't need sex for my mental or physical health. I think it's more likely men who feel that way. I feel calmer and more joyful without it. I might be the only person in the world who feels this way. But maybe other widows would agree. We aren't nearly as miserable as you would think we are. I am not.

If I had sex with him, it would be a serious committed relationship. I wouldn't have the chance to date other men, and I might want to. He also has many problems in his life -- children to take care of, expenses, health, etc. While I don't really have any problems right now.

Having sex would cross the line from carefree loving friendship to serious problem-ridden commitment.

Well, you are where you are, and I am out of ideas.
But I sympathize with the fact that you are still working through a mourning process, which is pretty much sacred ground for anyone.
Much respect.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Not all guys are like that, but many are. We have some powerful instincts. But one thing I do know is if you stick to your guns then you will find someone who is more compatible when it comes to shared morals and this is not something you are doomed to put up with.

A relationship only works if your weird idiosyncracies and your own personal ****-storm meshes its gears with the weird idiosyncracies and personal ****-storms of your partner...because every last one of us HAS their own weird idiosyncracies and our own personal ****-storms to a greater or lesser extent, and we walk around inside of them like they are portable environments, our very own emotional or intellectual solar systems, so to speak.

You have to recognize when that meshing of the gears is at work and it is evident, and you have to also respect when it is not.
In the end that is what a lot of it boils down to.

I could like a woman a lot, I could enjoy "being with her" on a date, I could adore hopping into the sack with her, and I could even grow to love her but if our personal weirdness doesn't integrate and mesh properly then the friction grows and grows, and it becomes toxic and overheated.

To Good4Nothin, I can only say that you appear to be way too vulnerable and wounded right at the moment to be messing around with the idea of any kind of relationship with a man, but that's just...like...my opinion, man...

And the last thing you need right now is some Karl Hungus who is only interested in "fixing das cable".

 

[Crosscheck]

When you see the total amount spent on mainstream and alternative medications on erectile dysfunction in collaboration with the fact that probably 30% of the internet is porn one realizes just how much men value sex.

I truly believe if a man was told he would have to give up one of his 5 senses or his ability to have an erection that there would be many guys running around with lost of taste.

If this guy is driving that strongly to have sex and it isn't one of your top ten things to do I think you are setting yourself up for heartache to continue with him.

 

[smallvoice]

So? You are not a thing to be tested and ridden. You are a worthy woman with an impressive and illustrious track record behind you. If he wants to play ball in a league where the standard so far is a 30 year marriage, he should be willing to recognize the value.

I mean, what - if the sex isn't great, is he planning on dumping you?

If the answer is yes, then I'd say you are worth far more than that.
If the answer is no, and he's just randy, well, I get that (I'm a guy. trust me - I get that), but I'd still say you are worth far more, and he can step up to the plate, rather than "testing you out" like you were a horse, a car, or just something else to ride.

I suspect the encounter would be more satisfying all around if both of you came to the idea that a test drive was appropriate.

 

[Good4Nothin]

When you see the total amount spent on mainstream and alternative medications on erectile dysfunction in collaboration with the fact that probably 30% of the internet is porn one realizes just how much men value sex.

I truly believe if a man was told he would have to give up one of his 5 senses or his ability to have an erection that there would be many guys running around with lost of taste.

If this guy is driving that strongly to have sex and it isn't one of your top ten things to do I think you are setting yourself up for heartache to continue with him.

The problem is, then -- if most men value sex above almost everything, and if I have other things I value more than sex, does that mean I can only have women friends??

I don't like only hanging around with women. For one thing, they spend too much time talking about their search for the perfect relationship. And I like men! But it's hard to be just friends with men, because if you like each other there will probably be some attraction.

So from what you said there is no good solution to the problem I originally posted.

I think maybe I need to date other guys, not just this one. I don't HAVE to have a serious relationship with the first one that came along.

 

[Mashmont]

I have been wondering what is "normal" for people who are single later in life, because of death or divorce, or whatever. What is the average length of time people see each other before getting intimate?

I realize there isn't one definite number, and it depends on the person, etc., etc. I am just looking for very general vague indications.

I only had 2 romantic relationships in my life, the most recent one lasted over 30 years, and he died a couple of years ago. So now I am not at all sure what is normal when you're single.

I have been told that after 4 months of seeing each other it would be very strange to not have sex. I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.

Sex outside marriage is ALWAYS a bad idea. Young or old. It damages relationships and individuals. The idea of test-driving a partner by having sex is exactly the opposite of the goal. Sex before marriage clouds and derails the critical examination that should be going on when evaluating a prospective partner.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Sex outside marriage is ALWAYS a bad idea. Young or old. It damages relationships and individuals. The idea of test-driving a partner by having sex is exactly the opposite of the goal. Sex before marriage clouds and derails the critical examination that should be going on when evaluating a prospective partner.

I kind of agree with that. But so many people don't.

Even worse, in this situation, the guy is separated but not divorced. And sees his wife a lot because they have a teenager. The wife is 20 years younger than he is, and sometimes he admits he still loves her. But he says they won't get back together, but who knows.

This much younger wife is also very promiscuous, which is why they are separated. So maybe she gave him STDs?

So, really, I have to admit the whole thing sounds like a bad idea. At the beginning it seems very romantic and it was nice to feel so loved and wanted.

If I had gone to bed and the relationship didn't work out, would that have been such a tragedy? I don't know. If I had caught an STD it would have been tragic, but otherwise ok so what. I don't know.

Maybe I should from now on stick with the idea that pre-marital sex is wrong, and test drives are not needed. I might never want to get legally married, because I don't want the financial entanglements, but there should at least be a serious commitment.

This guy said he wanted a serious commitment with me. But it would require sex first. One time he said he thought all the women of my generation were into recreational sex, so it's weird that I am not. Huh? Do I have to be exactly like everyone in my generation??

 

[Mashmont]

I kind of agree with that. But so many people don't.

Even worse, in this situation, the guy is separated but not divorced. And sees his wife a lot because they have a teenager. The wife is 20 years younger than he is, and sometimes he admits he still loves her. But he says they won't get back together, but who knows.

This much younger wife is also very promiscuous, which is why they are separated. So maybe she gave him STDs?

So, really, I have to admit the whole thing sounds like a bad idea. At the beginning it seems very romantic and it was nice to feel so loved and wanted.

If I had gone to bed and the relationship didn't work out, would that have been such a tragedy? I don't know. If I had caught an STD it would have been tragic, but otherwise ok so what. I don't know.

Maybe I should from now on stick with the idea that pre-marital sex is wrong, and test drives are not needed. I might never want to get legally married, because I don't want the financial entanglements, but there should at least be a serious commitment.

This guy said he wanted a serious commitment with me. But it would require sex first. One time he said he thought all the women of my generation were into recreational sex, so it's weird that I am not. Huh? Do I have to be exactly like everyone in my generation??

OMG. You have to drop this guy like a hot potato. You already have a window into how he treats women he's married to. He'll do the same to you. His requiring sex as a pre-requisite is a huge red flag. I think you are very wise to be wary.

 

[Logician Man]

OMG. You have to drop this guy like a hot potato. You already have a window into how he treats women he's married to. He'll do the same to you. His requiring sex as a pre-requisite is a huge red flag. I think you are very wise to be wary.

I made sure to tell my daughters and grand daughters to drop anyone who refers to young females as 'creepy piglets' to drop those types like hot potato. That' as huge red flag any female should acknowledge, and be extemely wary of.

 

[Moonglow]

All I can say is don't get married if you like to have sex because marriage kills a sex life.

 

[Mashmont]

All I can say is don't get married if you like to have sex because marriage kills a sex life.

That, of course, is ridiculous.

 

[Moonglow]

That, of course, is ridiculous.

Sure buddy try it you won't like it.

 

[Mashmont]

Sure buddy try it you won't like it.

I've been married 32 years. Sex is still great.

 

[Mashmont]

I made sure to tell my daughters and grand daughters to drop anyone who refers to young females as 'creepy piglets' to drop those types like hot potato. That' as huge red flag any female should acknowledge, and be extemely wary of.

Is there no thread you won't troll and try to ruin? Let's keep the focus on Good4 and her situation.

 

[Logician Man]

Is there no thread you won't troll and try to ruin? Let's keep the focus on Good4 and her situation.

My post does address the OP. GFN is talking about being single, 'test driving' potential new candidates, and weeding out bad apples. I am of the opinion that anyone who refers to young women as 'oinklets' and 'creepy piglets', is a candidate to drop like a hot potato because it clearly displays a lack of concern for young children, and certainly is a clear indicator said potential candidate is an individual or very low character, questionable morals and values, and very unChritianlike.

 

[Good4Nothin]

OMG. You have to drop this guy like a hot potato. You already have a window into how he treats women he's married to. He'll do the same to you. His requiring sex as a pre-requisite is a huge red flag. I think you are very wise to be wary.

What do you mean? How does he treat women he's married to? She cheated on him and he kicked her out. That seems fair to me.