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Non-marital sex

Good4Nothin said:
Your experience was that your wife waited 2 years until you got serious about the relationship. That is not typical, especially not of men. I would not expect a man to prove he loves me by waiting 2 years while I decide.

In addition, I don't think religion has anything to do with sex. There isn't even an Old Testament commandment saying non-marital sex is wrong. And polygamy was just fine for the ancient Hebrews. Only adultery was forbidden -- having sex with another man's wife.

Jesus went a little further and said divorce is a sin, because re-marriage would be adultery.

Anyway -- my problem with non-marital sex is not religious. I had non-marital sex for 30 years with my boyfriend. I had known him for a very long time before I realized he was interested in me. As soon as I realized that, I jumped right into bed. I was crazy about him.

He died less than 2 years ago. I have not felt that crazy about anyone else. Maybe that's why I didn't feel excited about this guy? I really think I love him though. Maybe it's because I felt pressured almost from the very beginning, and I'm so stubborn I won't do anything I feel pressured into?

Also, maybe it's because I am used to being single and I really like it. I don't even have a dog, because then I would have to get home at a certain time, and it's too much responsibility.

Anyway, I really don't know. I don't think I am exactly typical. Or maybe I am. There haven't been any comments here from older single women. I only talked about it to one girlfriend, and she said if sex is going to happen it would happen right at the beginning. But she is a liberal/progressive/hippie (oh I know so many of those!)
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We both dated others during those two years. It's funny. When the dates were over, we'd call each other and talk about the dates. Like friends do.

Is there a reason why you and your boyfriend never married?
 
Good4Nothin,

How about I give you a different perspective? I'm an older guy in my 50s. I'm not looking to get married. I don't see marriage as a beneficial thing at my age. Especially if there are no kids involved.
So, what happens when I date? We go out and have fun. We enjoy each others company. If I find a woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with, then okay. But I don't really expect to.
As for sex, I guess I'm looking for a woman that I can have a nice relationship with, including sex. I do have to say, if I was going out with someone and after 3 or 4 months there was no sex, I'd go
looking for it elsewhere.

All of this is predicated on our being older. If I was still in my 20s/30s, the answer would be different. It seems that you are interested in marriage, so maybe my lifestyle is not compatible with yours. I just wanted to give you a different perspective.
 
Mashmont said:
We both dated others during those two years. It's funny. When the dates were over, we'd call each other and talk about the dates. Like friends do.

Is there a reason why you and your boyfriend never married?
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He didn't want to. Maybe I loved him more than he loved me. And he had all kinds of serious health problems, etc. Long story. But I would have married him, I loved him so much, even though I actually didn't care about being married. I never wanted to have kids.

There is a lot of social pressure to be married. Women are respected more. Old single women are often looked down at. I hate that, but I also love being single. I have serious hobbies and I'm very busy.

My boyfriend saved me from the domestic mother life that I never wanted, because he wouldn't marry me.

The guy I am talking about now has serious health problems, financial problems, young kids from previous relationships with young women. All the problems I don't have. So maybe I'll be very lucky if it ends.

Even though I do love him. We naturally gravitate to the opposite sex, even if we don't want to.
 
vegas giants said:
You do you. Whatever works for you. But to me....its just sex. Now buying a house together....that's commitment!
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Yeah, it's just sex. And women are just objects to you people. You don't care anything about them. Never did. You'd just as soon use them, the discard them like old rags. For atheists, it's all about ME ME ME.
 
gino said:
Good4Nothin,

How about I give you a different perspective? I'm an older guy in my 50s. I'm not looking to get married. I don't see marriage as a beneficial thing at my age. Especially if there are no kids involved.
So, what happens when I date? We go out and have fun. We enjoy each others company. If I find a woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with, then okay. But I don't really expect to.
As for sex, I guess I'm looking for a woman that I can have a nice relationship with, including sex. I do have to say, if I was going out with someone and after 3 or 4 months there was no sex, I'd go
looking for it elsewhere.

All of this is predicated on our being older. If I was still in my 20s/30s, the answer would be different. It seems that you are interested in marriage, so maybe my lifestyle is not compatible with yours. I just wanted to give you a different perspective.
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No, I am not interested in marriage. But I don't want the kind of casual sex relationships you look for. I want a deep and committed friendship before there is any sex. I want to be close enough that I am not afraid to mention my fear of STDs.
 
Mashmont said:
Yeah, it's just sex. And women are just objects to you people. You don't care anything about them. Never did. You'd just as soon use them, the discard them like old rags. For atheists, it's all about ME ME ME.
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No, I don't believe this is related to religion or atheism. An atheist could be a loving and caring person, as much as any Christian. I am NOT an atheist myself, but I don't blame atheism for the world's troubles.
 
gino said:
Good4Nothin,

How about I give you a different perspective? I'm an older guy in my 50s. I'm not looking to get married. I don't see marriage as a beneficial thing at my age. Especially if there are no kids involved.
So, what happens when I date? We go out and have fun. We enjoy each others company. If I find a woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with, then okay. But I don't really expect to.
As for sex, I guess I'm looking for a woman that I can have a nice relationship with, including sex. I do have to say, if I was going out with someone and after 3 or 4 months there was no sex, I'd go
looking for it elsewhere.

All of this is predicated on our being older. If I was still in my 20s/30s, the answer would be different. It seems that you are interested in marriage, so maybe my lifestyle is not compatible with yours. I just wanted to give you a different perspective.
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I'm a little older than you, and I just don't understand this kind of thinking at all. In this forum, my view seems to be in the small minority. Not sure where it lies in the real world, but I'll bet my view is a lot more common.
 
Good4Nothin said:
No, I don't believe this is related to religion or atheism. An atheist could be a loving and caring person, as much as any Christian. I am NOT an atheist myself, but I don't blame atheism for the world's troubles.
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Hes a troll. Just so you know
 
Good4Nothin said:
No, I don't believe this is related to religion or atheism. An atheist could be a loving and caring person, as much as any Christian. I am NOT an atheist myself, but I don't blame atheism for the world's troubles.
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Well, the person I was addressing is an avowed atheist, and I have a real problem with his saying "to me, it's just sex". That objectifies a woman, IMHO.
 
Mashmont said:
Well, the person I was addressing is an avowed atheist, and I have a real problem with his saying "to me, it's just sex". That objectifies a woman, IMHO.
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Ok, yes it does, unless the woman feels the same. But it's just a coincidence that he is an atheist. Men have been feeling that way since forever, long before atheism became popular.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Ok, yes it does, unless the woman feels the same. But it's just a coincidence that he is an atheist. Men have been feeling that way since forever, long before atheism became popular.
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It is true that many men think this way.
 
Mashmont said:
It is true that many men think this way.
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Monogamy is not very efficient, if you are trying to reproduce as much as possible. Not that we should want that now. But I think some men are for some reason born more like pre-human primates, where the alpha male has multiple female sex partners.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Monogamy is not very efficient, if you are trying to reproduce as much as possible. Not that we should want that now. But I think some men are for some reason born more like pre-human primates, where the alpha male has multiple female sex partners.
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Yep, well we are called upon to be civilized. That's what makes us different from the animals.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I have been wondering what is "normal" for people who are single later in life, because of death or divorce, or whatever. What is the average length of time people see each other before getting intimate?

I realize there isn't one definite number, and it depends on the person, etc., etc. I am just looking for very general vague indications.

I only had 2 romantic relationships in my life, the most recent one lasted over 30 years, and he died a couple of years ago. So now I am not at all sure what is normal when you're single.

I have been told that after 4 months of seeing each other it would be very strange to not have sex. I think people naturally want to test drive a car before buying it. But I want to know if the car is safe before test driving it.
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I only read the first page of this thread (I display 50 posts per page), but judging from the information you gave in your first page posts, I don't think you are ready to have sex with this man, yet. Forcing yourself because it is expected or you think you need to appease him is probably not the best way to get this going. If he can't give you the time you need, then you need to question the nature of his feelings for you.

As for the question you ask, there is no set time. Each person is different, each relationship is different. "Third date", "fourth date" "four months" these are all stereotypes and social norms that do not and should not apply to everybody.

Do it when if feels right for you, regardless of the timeline.

And yes, do look for lab tests. many STDs can be silent; the most concerning of them all, HIV, will have virtually no symptoms for months and years, in most cases.
 
Mashmont said:
Yep, well we are called upon to be civilized. That's what makes us different from the animals.
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Oh that is just so ridiculous. We were taught that in elementary school, but should know better now. All social animals have rules, all social animals are considerate of others in their group.

"Civilized" just means living in cities. Humans are by far the most violent species on earth.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Yes, and we are NOT better than the others. The argument could be made that we are much worse.
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Well we are expected and called upon to be better than the animals in that we should exercise restraint and think about the greater good. Something animals are incapable of doing. Other species fight to the death. If two humans have a disagreement, it is unacceptable for them to punch it out. Other species have indiscriminant sex. Man is expected to be faithful. That makes for the best families.
 
GreatNews2night said:
I only read the first page of this thread (I display 50 posts per page), but judging from the information you gave in your first page posts, I don't think you are ready to have sex with this man, yet. Forcing yourself because it is expected or you think you need to appease him is probably not the best way to get this going. If he can't give you the time you need, then you need to question the nature of his feelings for you.

As for the question you ask, there is no set time. Each person is different, each relationship is different. "Third date", "fourth date" "four months" these are all stereotypes and social norms that do not and should not apply to everybody.

Do it when if feels right for you, regardless of the timeline.

And yes, do look for lab tests. many STDs can be silent; the most concerning of them all, HIV, will have virtually no symptoms for months and years, in most cases.
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The only moral time to have sex is if you are committed through marriage.
 
GreatNews2night said:
I only read the first page of this thread (I display 50 posts per page), but judging from the information you gave in your first page posts, I don't think you are ready to have sex with this man, yet. Forcing yourself because it is expected or you think you need to appease him is probably not the best way to get this going. If he can't give you the time you need, then you need to question the nature of his feelings for you.

As for the question you ask, there is no set time. Each person is different, each relationship is different. "Third date", "fourth date" "four months" these are all stereotypes and social norms that do not and should not apply to everybody.

Do it when if feels right for you, regardless of the timeline.

And yes, do look for lab tests. many STDs can be silent; the most concerning of them all, HIV, will have virtually no symptoms for months and years, in most cases.
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The fact that he was talking about it almost from the very beginning made me suspicious. Maybe it was because he was so crazy in love with me he couldn't stand to wait. But I doubt it. I felt pressured, and I thought if I made him wait too long he would find someone else. And recently he actually said he would. Because he's so horny it's making him irritable, he says.

Maybe if I had slept with him within the first month, we would be in a serious committed relationship now. Or maybe not. No way to guess.
 
Mashmont said:
The only moral time to have sex is if you are committed through marriage.
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That's just your opinion. Some people don't want the entanglements of legal marriage, but they want to have sex. I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially for those of us who are old -- we might not want to risk our retirement accounts, homes, etc. Or maybe we like living alone, but also want some intimacy.

If you believe sex should only be within marriage, that is fine, you can follow that rule. But don't try to impose it on everyone else.
 
Good4Nothin said:
That's just your opinion. Some people don't want the entanglements of legal marriage, but they want to have sex. I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially for those of us who are old -- we might not want to risk our retirement accounts, homes, etc. Or maybe we like living alone, but also want some intimacy.

If you believe sex should only be within marriage, that is fine, you can follow that rule. But don't try to impose it on everyone else.
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In my first response to you, you asked for advice and I said sex outside marriage was a bad idea, and you said you agreed with me. Even though I think it leads to bad consequences and is responsible for many of the world's problems, I don't have the ability to impose this view on anyone else. As for older marriage and assets, that is when you can and should have a prenup to protect the accumulated assets you are talking about . When you are young and starting out, I think prenups are a disastrous idea
 
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