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New Zealand gun crimes rise to highest in a decade despite strict gun bans

vegas giants said:
None. So?
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The 2A is the reason for the sheer amount of guns in this country and thus the availability of them to criminals. You can't compare the U.S. "gun problem" to other countries.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
The 2A is the reason for the sheer amount of guns in this country and thus the availability of them to criminals. You can't compare the U.S. "gun problem" to other countries.
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UK armed cops shoot fewer people in a year than American under-fives. The NZ "problem" is an artifact of tiny numbers. If two people are shot in a year, "OMG gun crime has doubled!"
 
Rich2018 said:
Sure, make the poor people rich...

The goal of every president ever.

Find a cure for cancer while you're at it.
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Ahhhh.....the ol' "being poor causes one to become a criminal" mentality. Sorry but I'm not buying it. Not in the U.S. anyway. There is a big difference between being "poor" in the U.S. and being poor in say, Somalia, where people have very limited access to basic resources and are basically fighting for survival. Here in the U.S., poor people have it better than you think. They have cars, cellphones, t.v's, and a roof over their head. Some people think they are "poor" if they don't have a bunch of nice "stuff" that others have. Many "poor" people who can't afford to get them nice shoes or clothes or car feel "less than" or think "the man" owes them something, so they make a CONSCIOUS DECISION to become a criminal and steal. It has more to do with the lack of morals and breakdown in society and culture of "give me stuff". I was raised by a single mom and we didnt have much. I didn't become a criminal.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
The 2A is the reason for the sheer amount of guns in this country and thus the availability of them to criminals. You can't compare the U.S. "gun problem" to other countries.
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The second amendment like all rights can be restricted and regulated
 
vegas giants said:
The second amendment like all rights can be restricted and regulated
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And it is....especially here in CommieFornia, where they pay basically no attention to the constitution and they readily admit it.
 
Fledermaus said:
No, that isn't what's happening.
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OK, list the countries and I'll look. Remember however, you were the one pointed out no Americans were taking me up on 2019 US gun crime statistics because "the subject of the thread is New Zealand..."


Fledermaus said:
The UK had quite the history of mass shootings prior to Cumbria. Right?
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The majority in Northern Ireland but a mass shooting with deaths is still a mass shooting with deaths... Now I know in most years, the US has 24 by the end if February most years so that's nothing to be proud of but we had 24 mass shootings with deaths in the UK since 1970 if you want to be accurate...

Maidenrules29 said:
~ You can't compare the U.S. "gun problem" to other countries.
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That statement usually comes out in every gun control thread I've ever been involved with - usually when the pro-gun people are losing. After that, it's "well, we have the 2nd Amendment and that over-rides every argument..."
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Ahhhh.....the ol' "being poor causes one to become a criminal" mentality. Sorry but I'm not buying it. Not in the U.S. anyway. There is a big difference between being "poor" in the U.S. and being poor in say, Somalia, where people have very limited access to basic resources and are basically fighting for survival. Here in the U.S., poor people have it better than you think. They have cars, cellphones, t.v's, and a roof over their head. Some people think they are "poor" if they don't have a bunch of nice "stuff" that others have. Many "poor" people who can't afford to get them nice shoes or clothes or car feel "less than" or think "the man" owes them something, so they make a CONSCIOUS DECISION to become a criminal and steal. It has more to do with the lack of morals and breakdown in society and culture of "give me stuff". I was raised by a single mom and we didnt have much. I didn't become a criminal.
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Poverty is relative


A "poor" man in New York, might appear to be wealthy in a third world country.

It's more to do with how a poor man views his place in society, when compared to the wealthier section or the "rich"

Crime is a factor of poverty (at least perceived poverty) and population density.

In short, the more rural and equal a society is, the less crime it experiences.
 
soylentgreen said:
No, not platitude in the case of nz it was a thought put into action. Platitude is what american politicians do every time they send out their thoughts and prayers to another mass killing in america.

I never said the ban was not because of the mass shooting. I said it was not put there because of the gun violence. I also pointed out that the rise in gun violence is not the mass shooting but other causes completely unrelated to the mass shooting. It's not me that is pinballing. It is you who simply lack the ability to separate out two different events.

And no, not someone in the government but almost everyone in the government agreed to a ban along with most of the people of nz.

<Snipped more childish attacks>
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"The gun ban was put there to emphasise the idea that violence is never a solution that guns are never the answer."

100% Platitude.

And no, not someone in the government but almost everyone in the government agreed to a ban along with most of the people of nz.

For what reason.... Don't spit out platitudes.

Why a ban?

What is the ban supposed to DO?

Sending a message doesn't work if the people you send a message to don't care.

WHAT WAS THE BAN SUPPOSED TO DO?
 
Rich2018 said:
Poverty is relative




It's more to do with how a poor man views his place in society, when compared to the wealthier section or the "rich"

Crime is a factor of poverty .
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That's pretty much what I said but in a different way
 
Fledermaus said:
"The gun ban was put there to emphasise the idea that violence is never a solution that guns are never the answer."

100% Platitude.

And no, not someone in the government but almost everyone in the government agreed to a ban along with most of the people of nz.

For what reason.... Don't spit out platitudes.

Why a ban?

What is the ban supposed to DO?

Sending a message doesn't work if the people you send a message to don't care.

WHAT WAS THE BAN SUPPOSED TO DO?
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Sigh! English is either a second language or your just really bad at it.

Platitude: a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful. An example would be the american government doing nothing but giving thought and prayer.

Banning guns is not a remark or statement, it is actually doing something.

I gave you a reason, violence is not an acceptable solution to problems in nz. Where as in america pro gun people confuse a right to own a gun with a right to kill with a gun.

Making laws do not work if people do not care if they break the law. But like laws they are there to make the statement that that is how we want our society to be.
 
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soylentgreen said:
Sigh! English is either a second language or your just really bad at it.

Platitude: a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful. An example would be the american government doing nothing but giving thought and prayer.

Banning guns is not a remark or statement, it is actually doing something.

I gave you a reason, violence is not an acceptable solution to problems in nz. Where as in america pro gun people confuse a right to own a gun with a right to kill with a gun.

Making laws do not work if people do not care if they break the law. But like laws they are there to make the statement that that is how we want our society to be.
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You start with an insult...

GOOD JOB.

Get back to me when you can start a post civilly.
 
Fledermaus said:
You start with an insult...

GOOD JOB.

Get back to me when you can start a post civilly.
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No, i started with pointing out the obvious.

You on the other hand can do nothing about what i have said so instead are looking for an out.
 
Rich2018 said:
OK, so crime is a factor of poverty (or if you prefer, financial inequality) and population density.
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Crime might be a factor of poverty but it shouldn't be. Its about bad choices and jealousy of other peoples success. I dont know what population density has to do with it. Maybe more people in a given area means that there are that many more people who can be victimized??
 
soylentgreen said:
No, i started with pointing out the obvious.

You on the other hand can do nothing about what i have said so instead are looking for an out.
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Uncivil and mistaken....

You threw out a platitude as the reason for the ban.

Yes, a ban does something....

Spitting on your shoes is doing something. Sticking a pencil in your ear is doing something.

Just waiting for what the something is that the ban would do.

What was the INTENT?

As to the "violence is not an acceptable solution to problems in nz" thing. That is a just happy talk. Platitude city. That isn't a reason.

And we agree... Your "message" isn't being taken to heart by the bad guys. My point exactly..

As to "But like laws they are there to make the statement that that is how we want our society to be."

More feel good talk. Platitude. Words.

I prefer my laws to have a more concrete results ....
 
Fledermaus said:
Uncivil and mistaken....

You threw out a platitude as the reason for the ban.

Yes, a ban does something....

Spitting on your shoes is doing something. Sticking a pencil in your ear is doing something.

Just waiting for what the something is that the ban would do.

What was the INTENT?

As to the "violence is not an acceptable solution to problems in nz" thing. That is a just happy talk. Platitude city. That isn't a reason.

And we agree... Your "message" isn't being taken to heart by the bad guys. My point exactly..

As to "But like laws they are there to make the statement that that is how we want our society to be."

More feel good talk. Platitude. Words.

I prefer my laws to have a more concrete results ....
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You appear to have a difficulty with comprehension. it would seem no matter how many times something is said your reply will be it was never said.

I have not thrown out a platitude by the very definition of platitude.

That you do not agree with the reason for the ban does not make it a platitude. Sending your thoughts and prayers is a platitude.

You prefer your laws to have a more concrete result yet you have also argued that criminals do not obey laws. Your laws reflect the type of country you want.
 
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