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New Zealand gun crimes rise to highest in a decade despite strict gun bans

soylentgreen said:
You appear to have a difficulty with comprehension. it would seem no matter how many times something is said your reply will be it was never said.

I have not thrown out a platitude by the very definition of platitude.

That you do not agree with the reason for the ban does not make it a platitude. Sending your thoughts and prayers is a platitude.

You prefer your laws to have a more concrete result yet you have also argued that criminals do not obey laws. Your laws reflect the type of country you want.
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What was the INTENT of the ban?

It wasn't to say "violence is not an acceptable solution to problems in nz".

That is garbage.

That could be done with Public Service Announcements. Page #1 ad on the News. Maybe television. Maybe Fortune Cookies. A Billboard or two.

Why was the ban implemented?
 
Fledermaus said:
New Zealand gun crimes rise to highest in a decade despite strict gun bans

The same thing in England. And Australia sees more guns than pre-ban.

That wasn't supposed to happen

Gun crime rates and killings involving guns in New Zealand reached their highest level in a decade this year despite the country's strict gun control measures lauded by left-wing politicians in the United States.

The figures, obtained from police under the Official Information Act by news outlet RNZ, show that gun crime has increased in the country in 2018 and 2019:

Last year, there were 3540 occasions where an offender was found with a gun.

And in both of the last two years, the rate of deadly incidents involving a firearm was the highest it had been since 2009.

The number of guns seized by police is also on the rise, up almost 50 percent on five years earlier at 1263 last year.

An officer was attacked by someone wielding a gun 13 times in 2019, up two on 2018 but remaining steady over the past five years.

New Zealand earned praise from gun control advocates in the spring 2019 after Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern banned all "military-style semi-automatic weapons" and "assault rifles" in the wake of a massacre of 50 people at two mosques in Christchurch. As a part of the ban, the government implemented a gun buyback program allowing legal gun owners to surrender their firearms to the government for "fair and reasonable compensation." Proponents of the ban assumed that it would result in fewer guns in the country, and thus, fewer gun crimes. But that evidently is not what has happened so far.

New Zealand gun crimes rise to highest in a decade despite strict gun bans - TheBlaze
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Do not vote democrat this November. Democrats promote lawlessness, hatred, ungodliness, and government oppression, among other evils. Democrats want to disarm Americans who do not want America turned communist by power-hungry leftist Marxists.
 
Fledermaus said:
Please stop.
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He sounds like a regular upstanding gun owning Trumpist.

Interesting fact. In March 2015 American police shot more people (111) than the British police have shot since the year 1900. That's the different level of violence in a country awash with firearms.
 
Manc Skipper said:
He sounds like a regular upstanding gun owning Trumpist.

Interesting fact. In March 2015 American police shot more people (111) than the British police have shot since the year 1900. That's the different level of violence in a country awash with firearms.
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TRUMP CARD....

Some folks keep sneaking those into places they are neither required nor desired.

So... What do you believe the ban was intended to do?
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Crime might be a factor of poverty but it shouldn't be. Its about bad choices and jealousy of other peoples success. I dont know what population density has to do with it. Maybe more people in a given area means that there are that many more people who can be victimized??
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You're arguing for a utopia where human nature is changed

Where there is inequality there will always be resentment and jealousy

So far the only attempt to combat this has been socialism - a great idea that we just can't make work.
 
Rich2018 said:
You're arguing for a utopia where human nature is changed

Where there is inequality there will always be resentment and jealousy

So far the only attempt to combat this has been socialism - a great idea that we just can't make work.
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Even with socialism there would be problems. In a system where everyone would be expected to work "towards the common good", there would always be many working harder than others, which would of course cause jealousy, resentment, and anger. Kind of like what happens in the workplace....
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Even with socialism there would be problems. In a system where everyone would be expected to work "towards the common good", there would always be many working harder than others, which would of course cause jealousy, resentment, and anger. Kind of like what happens in the workplace....
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and that's the basic problem of why we've not got socialism to work

Also how a slave based economy doesn't work as well as a capitalist economy.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Crime might be a factor of poverty but it shouldn't be. Its about bad choices and jealousy of other peoples success. I dont know what population density has to do with it. Maybe more people in a given area means that there are that many more people who can be victimized??
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Crime is a factor of poverty. And no it is not just jealousy or population.

The one important ingredient you are missing is called income inequality. And that is not an argument that everyone should be paid the same. it is an argument that society should pay close attention to the gap between the rich and the poor. because the greater that gap becomes, the greater the inequality, then also starts the increase in crime and social unrest. Revolutions occur because the gap becomes to great.
 
soylentgreen said:
Crime is a factor of poverty. And no it is not just jealousy or population.

The one important ingredient you are missing is called income inequality. And that is not an argument that everyone should be paid the same. it is an argument that society should pay close attention to the gap between the rich and the poor. because the greater that gap becomes, the greater the inequality, then also starts the increase in crime and social unrest. Revolutions occur because the gap becomes to great.
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I read somewhere that when everage wealth of to top tier of society exceeds that of the mass of society by a factor of 20, the we can expect a revolution

Seemingly that is used to explain the French Revolution.
 
soylentgreen said:
Crime is a factor of poverty. And no it is not just jealousy or population.

The one important ingredient you are missing is called income inequality. And that is not an argument that everyone should be paid the same. it is an argument that society should pay close attention to the gap between the rich and the poor. because the greater that gap becomes, the greater the inequality, then also starts the increase in crime and social unrest. Revolutions occur because the gap becomes to great.
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Isn't the definition of income inequality that some people make more money than other people? It will always be that way. And many people making less than others will feel "cheated" even though it is mostly their own fault that they chose the career that they did, while other people who have higher aspirations and more drive/gumption to succeed ( and yes maybe some help and some luck) end up like Elon Musk or Bill Gates.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Isn't the definition of income inequality that some people make more money than other people? It will always be that way. And many people making less than others will feel "cheated" even though it is mostly their own fault that they chose the career that they did, while other people who have higher aspirations and more drive/gumption to succeed ( and yes maybe some help and some luck) end up like Elon Musk or Bill Gates.
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The problem is not that some make more than others. It is the gap that exists between them. Society can cope with there being rich and poor. But only to a certain extent. Once that gap becomes to wide revolution ferments.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Isn't the definition of income inequality that some people make more money than other people? It will always be that way. And many people making less than others will feel "cheated" even though it is mostly their own fault that they chose the career that they did, while other people who have higher aspirations and more drive/gumption to succeed ( and yes maybe some help and some luck) end up like Elon Musk or Bill Gates.
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It's more to do with the average of the top tier.
 
Rich2018 said:
It's more to do with the average of the top tier.
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Ok so once again, jealousy of the ultra rich...... It may be disgusting how much money they make, but they offer a product or service that everyone seems to want right? So if we really were that upset at their wealth couldn't we protest by no longer ordering from Amazon, buying Teslas, or buying Microsoft products???
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Ok so once again, jealousy of the ultra rich...... It may be disgusting how much money they make, but they offer a product or service that everyone seems to want right? So if we really were that upset at their wealth couldn't we protest by no longer ordering from Amazon, buying Teslas, or buying Microsoft products???
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You're focusing on individual people...crime for financial gain, is not directed at individuals but at a group or class if you like.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Ok so once again, jealousy of the ultra rich...... It may be disgusting how much money they make, but they offer a product or service that everyone seems to want right? So if we really were that upset at their wealth couldn't we protest by no longer ordering from Amazon, buying Teslas, or buying Microsoft products???
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No it is not jealousy. There is only so much wealth to go around it is not unlimited supply. While the gap between rich and poor remain small then the wealth is distributed with some having more than others. But when the gap becomes large that means a few have nearly everything while the masses have nearly nothing.
 
Rich2018 said:
You're focusing on individual people...crime for financial gain, is not directed at individuals but at a group or class if you like.
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You lost me at "crime for financial gain"
 
soylentgreen said:
No it is not jealousy. There is only so much wealth to go around it is not unlimited supply. While the gap between rich and poor remain small then the wealth is distributed with some having more than others. But when the gap becomes large that means a few have nearly everything while the masses have nearly nothing.
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Who are these "masses" who have nearly nothing? What is "nothing"? Are we talking about the homeless? If not, then we are talking about people who just don't have as much wealth or "stuff" as others. My neighbor has a bunch of BMW's in his driveway. He drives one as does his wife and his two daughters. Am I jealous? Maybe just a little because my wife and I drive a Hyundai and a Kia. Am I mad? No, because my neighbor owns his own contractor business and my wife and I are both in middle management. I cannot disparage my neighbor for his success, just as I cannot disparage the mega-rich for what they have accomplished. Remember, there are many black and Hispanic people who are mega-rich. No one disparages them right? Who wants to tell LeBron James or Serena Williams or Beto Perez that they make too much money?
 
soylentgreen said:
No it is not jealousy. There is only so much wealth to go around it is not unlimited supply. While the gap between rich and poor remain small then the wealth is distributed with some having more than others. But when the gap becomes large that means a few have nearly everything while the masses have nearly nothing.
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There is only so much wealth to go around? What an ignorant statement. Wealth is there to be had by ANYONE in this country. Come up with a good or service that millions of people will pay for, whether its an invention or an app or whatever, and you can be a millionaire or billionaire. Look at the "My Pillow" guy for an example. A normal guy who fell on some hard times, including drug abuse, who then got clean and had a great idea to improve something that everyone in America and other countries uses. This is AMERICA. The greatest country in the world. For the hard working, diligent, and law abiding people in this country there is great opportunity to succeed.
 
Fledermaus said:
Anyone????

Why was the ban implemented?

Think for a moment before you answer.

And why was the Australian ban implemented?

And why was the UK ban implemented?

Why the ban?
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In NZ it was mainly a response to the Christchurch Mosque Shootings. Many New Zealanders were shocked by this, as terrorist attacks and shootings did not occur much in New Zealand (it's generally viewed as quite a "safe" country), so it was quite easily implemented.
 
Marrybore said:
In NZ it was mainly a response to the Christchurch Mosque Shootings. Many New Zealanders were shocked by this, as terrorist attacks and shootings did not occur much in New Zealand (it's generally viewed as quite a "safe" country), so it was quite easily implemented.
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Most gun control legislation in recent years has been in response to a high profile mass shooting.
 
Rich2018 said:
As opposed to crimes like dangerous/drunken driving, littering, drug possession....crimes where a wealthier person/class is not the victim.
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There is alot of stealing that is directed at an individual and not a "class" or group. Happens every day.
 
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