Michael Cohen pleads guilty to lying to Congress about Trump real estate project in Russia

[Samhain]

Actually I hesitated when I used "throw the election", rather than "influence the election", and I'm still not sure which is appropriate.

The reason I say this, is the released emails surely - in my mind - influenced enough voters to flip those razor thin wins in the 3 Electoral College states that gave Trump the win (MI, WI, PA).

No one knew that at the time, so the proper term then would seem to be "influenced". But with the emails seemingly being one of the key components giving Trump the win, it also could be argued the emails indeed flipped the election. Of course the same could be said of Comey's statement and perhaps several other things, so I suppose "influenced" would have been my better choice.

I can agree that influencing or disrupting was an intent of releasing the emails, but a foreign power didn't write them. One could argue that there is no difference between the Washington Post(Pentagon Papers) releasing stolen information and Wikileaks(DNC Emails) releasing stolen information or myself releasing stolen information, as the end result would be a change in the political pulse if such information was damaging to anyone.

Influencing opinion is, in all practicality, covered as free speech, regardless if the information is real or fake, domestic or foreign. After all, nobody called for the arrest of Vincente Fox who routinely made statements in relation to the 2016 election.

 

[Chomsky]

I think most of us are waiting for Mueller's report.
In the meantime, it is a lot of fun to speculate about the significance of every development as they occur.

I learned a new word here, recently:

"Theorycrafting"

Yep. That's what we're doing. And it indeed can be a lot of fun.

I always claimed:

"Politics is the sports of life"

I love sports ...

 

[j-mac]

You're trying to use the same sleazy swamp excuse, that these other above-the-law billionaires use?

Sorry, I don't buy it, and see it as a sleazy play on words.

Well, how "hands on" do you think he was after January 2016, considering the schedule he had campaigning?

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[trixare4kids]

I agree. Everyday I see the Trumpkins with their heads in sand imitating ostriches in denial of the Trump crime family crimes, I wonder if they have periodic meetings where they comfort each other to den basic reality that has been painfully obvious for two years now.

All you have are labels and unproven scenarios, aka lies; "Trumpkins" and the "Trump crime family"
Too bad you don't get paid for writing such :bs

 

[Chomsky]

Great find! Good work. Like the video pre-election that has him denying he has met Putin nine times, and boasting he knew him well...

His problem is, he has no idea what is the reality of the situation, everything is filtered through his self image of a perfect human being who is incapable of making a mistake, that he is "the greatest" even recently claiming he's the best president for blacks.

So he either sees something in total fear mode, exciting him into really caustic behavior or in total grandiose mode, that HE is the cause of all that is good. He's been a serial liar all his life, even talk he bought his college degree, and probably doesn't know where truth ends and personal fabrication begins...which would terrify him knowing that his words are going into a legal record and that he's more than likely to tell a lie in any situation, without even knowing it.

The reason it took a battery of lawyers and him months to provide written answers....there is no way he's clean in this., His every act has been that of a guilty man

In other words:

"A terrible choice for President"

Couple that with his business conflicts-of-interest around the globe, and he is beyond a terrible choice.

 

[Chomsky]

Dwight Eisenhower, spinning his grave, is probably generating enough raw power to light up all of Kansas.

"I like Ike!" :mrgreen:

Actually, I really do ...

 

[trixare4kids]

I learned a new word here, recently:

"Theorycrafting"

Yep. That's what we're doing. And it indeed can be a lot of fun.

I always claimed:

"Politics is the sports of life"

I love sports ...

As long as you don't get into the habit of confusing facts for hypothetical fallacy, I can get on board with "theorycrafting."

 

[radioman]

So in essence, we need to find the Rose Mary Woods* of Trump Tower? :mrgreen:

Nah.....she would probably "accidentally" erase portions of the tapes.


*Poor woman, caught up in momentous events she never anticipated. RIP.

 

[trixare4kids]

"I have had dealings over the years where I sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago. I had the Miss Universe pageant — which I owned for quite a while — I had it in Moscow a long time ago. But other than that, I have nothing to do with Russia," Trump said.

linkypoo...​

I wonder what work-around the trump sheep will bleat for this one?

*edit... NVM :lol:

Read your own article. Context can certainly be your friend.

"Trump specifically said he has no investments or loans in or from Russia."

Now, you go ahead and prove that he has investments and loans in or from Russia.

 

[Fearandloathing]

In other words:

"A terrible choice for President"

Couple that with his business conflicts-of-interest around the globe, and he is beyond a terrible choice.

I had not paid that much attention to him before, I have no TV so never saw him on "You're Fired" (now we know why he liked it so much), but I did read once that he's an insomniac and likes to make phone calls at night...and I had heard some of the conversations where he pretended to be someone else, he would phone up late night talk show hosts and praise himself for hours on end.

When I read that and the implications it has for mental illness, I KNEW he was the worst choice imaginable, but I never could get passed the idea that Americans were too smart for him.

They're not. We're talking high grade, instant addiction cool aid here folks...he really could kill some people and get away with it

 

[Chomsky]

I can agree that influencing or disrupting was an intent of releasing the emails, but a foreign power didn't write them. One could argue that there is no difference between the Washington Post(Pentagon Papers) releasing stolen information and Wikileaks(DNC Emails) releasing stolen information or myself releasing stolen information, as the end result would be a change in the political pulse if such information was damaging to anyone.

Influencing opinion is, in all practicality, covered as free speech, regardless if the information is real or fake, domestic or foreign. After all, nobody called for the arrest of Vincente Fox who routinely made statements in relation to the 2016 election.

Ah yes, but freedom of speech is not the issue here.

The issue, if it's present, is did Trump's campaign accept something of value from a foreign power to influence the election? And even more seriously, did they conspire (more colloquially "collude") with a foreign power to influence the election.

 

[Atomic Kid]

For all of you who think THIS IS IT!! WE GOT HIM NOW!! I suggest you take a step back and listen to a voice of reason.

That and about $12.50 will get you through the Holland Tunnel.

 

[Chomsky]

Well, how "hands on" do you think he was after January 2016, considering the schedule he had campaigning?

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I don't buy the argument, J-Mac. Sorry.

 

[Irwin Corey]

To understand the development of the "Russia Investigation" and hence this Cohen plea you need to watch this Front Line report.



I think it's a fair unbiased report on these developments and why the Mueller report exists and is necessary.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Who claimed it WAS the case?

You asked if it was illegal, I gave you a plausible way it would be illegal if it occurred, and his already submitted statements lied about it.
Remember, this broke after Trump's legal statements were submitted, so there is timing in favor of it too.
It could go either way.

Either Trump lied continuously to the public and sucker Cohen lied to congress in defense of big boss, and Trump told the truth in the written statements, or Trump lied in the written statements.
Based on Trump's past legal defense and how long they had to formulate answers, I agree it seems more likely he may have written the truth.
Trump's a lying **** for sure, either way.

They insured Trump did not commit perjury - that's all.

I wonder what would have been the reaction if Clinton had only submitted written answers. I've NEVER liked the woman, but turns out she has a hundred times the grits than does the Stupid Prick.

 

[Chomsky]

As long as you don't get into the habit of confusing facts for hypothetical fallacy, I can get on board with "theorycrafting."

Ditto!

This is a discussion board, where we have fun. If we just sat around and waited for only hard facts, we'd have nothing to do! :2razz:

 

[upsideguy]

According to the my NY Times source posted above. Trump wrote on Twitter in 2013 that “TRUMP TOWER-MOSCOW is next."

For some have failed to do research on the above or are intent on repeating rumor for facts, Trump did not lie about an attempted real estate deal, a Trump Moscow Tower... Ironically, it is not Trump who lies.

But he told the voters / American people in July 2016 that he had no business interests in Russia. That was a lie.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-trump-michael-cohen-russia-facts/2149022002/

Feel free to read the pleadings, knowing that every thing contained within is well researched and well documented (the US Attorney's ahve a 90%+ conviction rate)

https://www.justice.gov/file/1115596/download

You are in an abusive relationship with your POTUS. He lies and you twist yourself to defend his lies. He doesn't care about you. Why do you care about him?

 

[radioman]

That and about $12.50 will get you through the Holland Tunnel.

What!!!!????
$12.50 to go through that tunnel?
Geez, I complain about $6 bridge tolls.....and at least the bridges have a view.

 

[j-mac]

You better friggen believe it and you would too if you could only comprehend what this person and all his co-conspirators have gotten away with and the devastating damage this has done to this country. The fact that you aren't 'a hater' only tells me you could care less about the security and preservation of our country and only care about your racial prejudices, jobs, and the wall.

So, now not throwing in with your 'guilty until proven innocent ' mantra, criminalizing Republican presidential politics, I'm "un American "? Nice story, tell it to readers digest.

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[Khayembii Communique]

Just recently Giuliani claimed that what Cohen plead to is what Trump stated in his written answers.

Trump this morning said Cohen is lying.

So which is it?

 

[Fearandloathing]

I think most of us are waiting for Mueller's report.
In the meantime, it is a lot of fun to speculate about the significance of every development as they occur.

...and it does seem to bring out the worst in the American right. It's hillarious, I'm in stiches when I come here, how frightened the American right is over a few questions of Trump; to see the same individuals who HUNTED Hilary and cheered each new, and wasteful investigation; now they **** their pants at each new tid bit, and go the mattresses creating mythical defenses.

America is so laughable now. You have a "stable genius" who weaponized the White House, he has a disgusting past, laughable quotes beyond reality and behaving like a toddler.

Yeah this is a great show...no TV sitcom EVER amused this much

 

[akyron]

But he told the voters / American people in July 2016 that he had no business interests in Russia. That was a lie.

So what is the address of this towering business interest?

 

[Atomic Kid]

Individual 2 in the plea is Felix Sater

I'm pretty sure it is Felix Sater. He would be next closest person in a position to be able to verify this.

 

[uptower]

He might be sensing that in order to succeed politically, he needs to expand beyond his base.

Or his advisers have told him the one person he needs to stay away from when he's accused of colluding with Russia is Putin.

or he's just planning to lock himself in his room, binge-watch Fox and rage tweet about the Mueller investigation. In that case he really doesn't have time to meet Putin, or likely any other G-8 leaders.

 

[Chomsky]

Nah.....she would probably "accidentally" erase portions of the tapes.


*Poor woman, caught up in momentous events she never anticipated. RIP.

Actually though, trying to associate Trump's associates with their corresponding Nixon associates might be a fun exercise.

For example, Micheal Cohen seems to be a John Dean ringer, and Paul Manafort might be E. Howard Hunt.