Many demand PENN University president resign after refusing to say students supporting Jewish genocide violate code of conduct

[Superfly]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

All 3 presidents basically said the same thing. You can say whatever you want, as long as you don’t act on it. Is it wrong? Of course. But it’s basically the same here. You’ve got idiots here literally saying that black people aren’t as smart as white people, and nothing is happening to them, because they don’t want to step on anyone’s first amendment rights.

 

[j brown's body]

All 3 presidents basically said the same thing. You can say whatever you want, as long as you don’t act on it. Is it wrong? Of course. But it’s basically the same here. You’ve got idiots here literally saying that black people aren’t as smart as white people, and nothing is happening to them, because they don’t want to step on anyone’s first amendment rights.

It's basically a commitment to freedom of speech, which one would 3xpect a college to foster.

 

[j brown's body]

I support punishment for calls to genocide. Its time to close the loophole.

There are expression that may or may not call for genocide, depending on one's point of view.

Tgus, kind of getting into dangerous territory here.

 

[bomberfox]

There are expression that may or may not call for genocide, depending on one's point of view.

Tgus, kind of getting into dangerous territory here.

Perhaps but when it’s explicit, treat it like it is.

 

[Felis Leo]

Harvard's president did. Although, they were not asked to.

"Dr. Gay said in the statement. “Let me be clear: Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group are vile, they have no place at Harvard, and those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account.”"

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or shoipuld the first amendment protect them?

Yes. Calls for genocide should be punished. Incitement to violence is not protected by the First Amendment.

 

[Deuce]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Bullshit right wing spin.

Bullying policies are regarding behavior directed at an individual. Some hate goblin shrieking into the nazi void on Twitter doesn’t qualify. That lying republican bitch phrased the question that way specifically to generate this response because she is antisemitic.

 

[Bodi]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Dr gray and the other lady are straight up trash... disgusting racists that support Hamas and the eradication of Jews.

 

[weaver2]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Does anyone know the exact words students at MIT Harvard and U. Penn used during the protest? Were they using the word genocide, kill, eliminate, destroy. What were they actually saying?

 

[BirdinHand]

Does anyone know the exact words students at MIT Harvard and U. Penn used during the protest? Were they using the word genocide, kill, eliminate, destroy. What were they actually saying?

Intifada was spray painted on columns/walls and a business near UPenn from what I’ve seen.

They stood outside a restaurant chanting “we charge you with genocide” at the owner.

Even the governor of PA has condemned UPenn for allowing it to continue.

Gov. Shapiro calls out protest at Goldie; says UPenn president's testimony was 'shameful'

Governor Josh Shapiro and First Lady Lori Shapiro came to Goldie on Wednesday to show their support for Michael Solomonov and the staff at the restaurant.

6abc.com

I can’t speak to Harvard or MIT.

 

[NatMorton]

Yes. Calls for genocide should be punished. Incitement to violence is not protected by the First Amendment.

Not sure I agree. You won't find many here who support Israel's right to exist more than I, but if someone stands up on a street corner in Cambridge, MA and says "From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free. And yes, that means driving every last Jew out of the region with bayonets" then we have a right -- and I would argue an obligation -- to criticize that person, but I don't think that person should be arrested for uttering those words.

 

[NatMorton]

Just to put elite college speech codes into context, you can be thrown out of one of those institutions for misgendering a Jew but not for calling for his/her/their/zir death.

Proving once again that it is in fact possible to become overeducated.

 

[j brown's body]

Just to put elite college speech codes into context, you can be thrown out of one of those institutions for misgendering a Jew but not for calling for his/her/their/zir death.

Proving once again that it is in fact possible to become overeducated.

One is directed at an individual, so it's harassment, the other, toward a group, so it isn't.

 

[Noodlegawd]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

The best way to combat bad speech is with more speech. I fully support plastering their photographs on billboards and all over the internet so that everyone can see what they've said and react accordingly.

 

[mrjurrs]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Many don't understand what academics are for, and what they aren't for. If I stand on a street corner and shout my support for a genocide (of anyone), will I be arrested? No. Students have that same free speech on campus.

 

[weaver2]

Speech codes at universities like Penn and Harvard don't ban "hate speech" so much as they ban speech that bullies, threatens, intimidates or harasses other students.

A student could not, for example, call for the death of a Jewish student by name, as in "I think that Jew Jacob Cohen guy over there should be killed!" if it makes Jacob feel bullied, threatened, or harassed (and how could it not?)

Nether could you hold up a poster of all Jewish students at these schools and call for them all to die. If anything that would be even worse!

So how is it acceptable under the speech code to call for the deaths of all Jews everywhere? Wouldn't that by definition include Jewish students at the school? Is it because you did not specifically name anyone?

I don't think so. I think the Jewish students would still feel threatened, bullied, etc. and you would have violated the code.

If you called for a genocide on all trans people everywhere, I think you'd be kicked out of Harvard or Penn the same day. If that is the rule, then it should apply evenly to all protected groups (which includes Jews).

Exactly what did students at U.Penn say in their protest that you are interpreting as call for the genocide of all Jews. Exterminating Jews is a serious accusation and you need to support your accusation with examples and show pictures.

 

[weaver2]

The best way to combat bad speech is with more speech. I fully support plastering their photographs on billboards and all over the internet so that everyone can see what they've said and react accordingly.

Good! start plastering posters let's see the exact words that students have said; ........ the exact words not your interpretation of what they might have been implying.

 

[weaver2]

Intifada was spray painted on columns/walls and a business near UPenn from what I’ve seen.

Intifada doesn't mean the genocide or extermination of Jews.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An intifada (Arabic: انتفاضة intifāḍah) is a rebellion or uprising, or a resistance movement. It is a key concept in contemporary Arabic usage referring to a uprising against oppression.[1]

 

[weaver2]

They stood outside a restaurant chanting “we charge you with genocide” at the owner.

"We charge you with genocide" means they are accusing a Jewish falafel restaurant owner of genocide. Which is inaccurate. At most he is guilty of serving Arab dishes. When did cooking falafel become the of eradication of Jews?

Even the governor of PA has condemned UPenn for allowing it to continue.

Gov. Shapiro calls out protest at Goldie; says UPenn president's testimony was 'shameful'

Governor Josh Shapiro and First Lady Lori Shapiro came to Goldie on Wednesday to show their support for Michael Solomonov and the staff at the restaurant.

6abc.com

Most of the criticism against Ms Magill is coming from the U. Penn Board of Trustees who don't seem particualrly concerned about student protests, or free speech but are really concerned that major , very major, contributors threaten to withhold donations over this issue.

 

[BirdinHand]

"We charge you with genocide" means they are accusing a Jewish falafel restaurant owner of genocide. Which is inaccurate. At most he is guilty of serving Arab dishes. When did cooking falafel become the of eradication of Jews?

Most of the criticism against Ms Magill is coming from the U. Penn Board of Trustees who don't seem particualrly concerned about student protests, or free speech but are really concerned that major , very major, contributors threaten to withhold donations over this issue.

As well they should be.

Magill is a disgrace to UPenn at this juncture

And has already cost them donors.

 

[Fearandloathing]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

So....


There is or isn't free speech in America?

 

[weaver2]

As well they should be.

Magill is a disgrace to UPenn at this juncture

And has already cost them donors.

But these students have not called for the genocide of Jews they have accused an American Jewish restauranteur of genocide of Gaza Palestinians which is ridiculous.

Magill is trying to preserve students' right to free speech at at time when many of the big donors appear to be intolerant of allowing students to have this right.

 

[NatMorton]

But these students have not called for the genocide of Jews they have accused an American Jewish restauranteur of genocide of Gaza Palestinians which is ridiculous.

Magill is trying to preserve students' right to free speech at at time when many of the big donors appear to be intolerant of allowing students to have this right.

The problem is that these universities’ defense of “free speech” is highly selective, and the recent congressional testimony of the Presidents of UPenn, Harvard, and MIT demonstrate. Could you imagine them answering “it depends” if the question were “is it a violation of your university’s code to call for the genocide of blacks?” Or “trans people?”

 

[Emlee]

She resigned as President, remains a faculty member.

 

[BirdinHand]

She resigned as President, remains a faculty member.

Good.

 

[Bum]

All 3 presidents basically said the same thing. You can say whatever you want, as long as you don’t act on it. Is it wrong? Of course. But it’s basically the same here. You’ve got idiots here literally saying that black people aren’t as smart as white people, and nothing is happening to them, because they don’t want to step on anyone’s first amendment rights.

She just did....