Many demand PENN University president resign after refusing to say students supporting Jewish genocide violate code of conduct

[j brown's body]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

 

[dmpi]

The left's cancel culture is still alive and well.

 

[j brown's body]

The left's cancel culture is still alive and well.

How so?

I think you might be mixing up your cliches.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

 

[Grandpappy]

It really surprised me how these Ivy League people just couldn't condemn Jewish genocide.
Very sad.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

It really surprised me how these Ivy League people just couldn't condemn Jewish genocide.
Very sad.

I don't think they were asked to condemn Jewish genocide.

 

[j brown's body]

It really surprised me how these Ivy League people just couldn't condemn Jewish genocide.
Very sad.

Harvard's president did. Although, they were not asked to.

"Dr. Gay said in the statement. “Let me be clear: Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group are vile, they have no place at Harvard, and those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account.”"

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or shoipuld the first amendment protect them?

 

[Grandpappy]

I don't think they were asked to condemn Jewish genocide.

Yes they were. Directly.

 

[j brown's body]

Yes they were. Directly.

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or should the first amendment protect them?

 

[Grandpappy]

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or should the first amendment protect them?

Of course they should. There really is no justification for genocide of ANY group.


Even commies.(joke)

 

[j brown's body]

Of course they should. There really is no justification for genocide of ANY group.


Even commies.(joke)

So you essentially support hate speech rules.

 

[Grandpappy]

So you essentially support hate speech rules.

Of course. Maybe some things being "hate speech" is debatable.
But genocide? Of course.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Yes they were. Directly.

Show me. From what I have read, they weren't asked but they voluntarily said things like:


GAY: That type of hateful speech is personally abhorrent to me.

...

GAY: Calling for the genocide of Jews is antisemitic.

...

KILEY: Sen. [Chuck] Schumer, in a speech a few days ago, characterized Oct. 7 as a vicious, bloody, premeditated massacre of innocent men, women, children and elderly. Do you agree with that characterization?

GAY: That characterization is accurate. And I have condemned the heinous and barbaric terrorist attack.



The Link

 

[j brown's body]

Of course. Maybe some things being "hate speech" is debatable.
But genocide? Of course.

I didn't know conservatives would support such a thing. Doesn't that come close to cancel culture?

 

[Moon]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Just for saying abhorrent and evil things? No. If they’re making threats against other people, that would be a different thing.

 

[j brown's body]

Just for saying abhorrent and evil things? No. If they’re making threats against other people, that would be a different thing.

That's what these college presidents seemed to be saying.

 

[Anagram]

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or should the first amendment protect them?

Why would the first amendment protect students from punishment from a private university like Penn?

That said, my general belief is that private universities should allow free expression in political speech so long as it does not cross into harassment or incitement to violence, something that I think it is very easy to do with calls of genocide. But there were no actual examples of the university students' speech in that article, so I don't have an opinion on whether they specifically crossed that line.

 

[j brown's body]

Why would the first amendment protect students from punishment from a private university like Penn?

That said, my general belief is that private universities should allow free expression in political speech so long as it does not cross into harassment or incitement to violence, something that I think it is very easy to do with calls of genocide. But there were no actual examples of the university students' speech in that article, so I don't have an opinion on whether they specifically crossed that line.

Actually, I think it could be quite difficult. For insistence, that river to the sea chant seems to mean different things to different people. I'm not sure one can clearly say it's a call for genocide or for Palestine liberation/statehood.

 

[BirdinHand]

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Then you don’t understand the First Amendment

The First Amendment doesn’t prevent you from losing a job over what you say, losing a scholarship, losing your place at a University, etc.

You can be fired for posting a negative comment about the company you work for online. You can be sued for defamation and/or libel if you say something that is false about someone.

The First Amendment prevents the government from impeding on your right to say whatever you want. From locking you up for it. From prosecuting you for it.

But you very well can face other consequences.

And should.

 

[j brown's body]

Then you don’t understand the First Amendment

The First Amendment doesn’t prevent you from losing a job over what you say, losing a scholarship, losing your place at a University, etc.

You can be fired for posting a negative comment about the company you work for online. You can be sued for defamation and/or libel if you say something that is false about someone.

The First Amendment prevents the government from impeding on your right to say whatever you want. From locking you up for it. From prosecuting you for it.

But you very well can face other consequences.

And should.

Students aren't employees

Would not A state university prohibiting speech be violating the first amendment?

If we oppose and punish the expression of ideas we disagree with, are we really supporting free speech?

 

[BirdinHand]

Students aren't employees

Nope. They’re students. Students in every grade - from preschool through academia in universities - have to abide by codes of conduct. Speech is often covered by those, as are other actions.

Would not A state university prohibiting speech be violating the first amendment?

UPenn isn’t a state school for starters. It’s a private university.

If we oppose and punish the expression of ideas we disagree with, are we really supporting free speech?

I’m allowed to disagree with what you say. I’m allowed to even bring suit against you for what you say if it is damaging. You still have a right to say it.

Just because you have a right to do something doesn’t mean it is the smart or prudent thing to do.

 

[holbritter]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Replace Jews with Blacks. Will your decision be the same?

 

[holbritter]

Should students who call for genocide be punished, or should the first amendment protect them?

It’s hate speech. They should be punish3d.

 

[j brown's body]

Replace Jews with Blacks. Will your decision be the same?

Yeah, but I'm not firm about it. In fact, I can easily see the other point of view.

 

[OlNate]

What a mess. Freedom of speech is like communism... it's a great idea on paper but it gets completely ****ed when you add people.

Endorsement or defense of genocide should absolutely be deemed unacceptable. But i do believe your 1st amendment says otherwise. Any constitution experts able to confirm?