Many demand PENN University president resign after refusing to say students supporting Jewish genocide violate code of conduct

[eman623]

Exactly what did students at U.Penn say in their protest that you are interpreting as call for the genocide of all Jews. Exterminating Jews is a serious accusation and you need to support your accusation with examples and show pictures.

Moral preening is a drug. You more you do it the more you want. I hate to harsh your indignation buzz, but if you had a clue what this topic is even about, you might have noticed that I never actually accused anyone of calling for genocide. I did not even refer to the protesting students in my last post.

Go educate yourself and come back. Spoiler alert: This thread topic is whether calling for genocide violates Harvard and Penn's speech codes. Not whether anyone did or not.

I will say this though. While the students don't seem to have specifically called for the death of all Jews everywhere, they definitely made Jewish students at Harvard and probably Penn feel threatened and scared. Some reported being afraid to leave their rooms to go to class. This is absolutely a violation of the code of conduct and the protesting students who caused this to happen should be punished up to and including expulsion if warranted.

 

[JBG]

UPenn President Liz Magill, BOT chair Scott Bok resign after donor revolt over disastrous antisemitism testimony (link in headline text)

It's about time society stood up to anti-Semitism. If a conservative judge tries to speak at Stanford Law School students feel "unsafe" and try to muzzle the speech. See Stanford apologizes after law students disrupt judge's speech. And yet chants of "We Are Hamas" are tolerated at university campuses.

Wealthy Jewish donors enable all of this nonsense. I frankly think professors and administration spend too much time with adolescents and near-children to function outside their bubble. Time for equal application of non-discrimination, free speech, diversity, equity and inclusion.

 

[weaver2]

The problem is that these universities’ defense of “free speech” is highly selective, and the recent congressional testimony of the Presidents of UPenn, Harvard, and MIT demonstrate. Could you imagine them answering “it depends” if the question were “is it a violation of your university’s code to call for the genocide of blacks?” Or “trans people?”

The thing is nobody has said what the students were chanting or shouting or carrying on their signs. Someone quoted the shouts at the Jewish owned falafel restaurant in Philly. They accused the owner of genocide, presumably of Palestinians. I've looked at pictures of some of the student protest signs. None of them are calling for the extermination of Jews. All we have is Ms Stefanik's hysterical badgering of the three presidents , with no statement of actual words used, that students were demanding the genocide of Jews.

A lot of the protestors are Jewish and Jewish professors. From Columbia Uni. in NYC:
"In front of Columbia University’s Low Memorial Library, seven infant-sized bundles of white cloth rested on the steps, splattered with red paint. Behind the swaddles, plywood boards read “10,600 lives slaughtered,” “4,412 children,” and “let Gaza live,” alongside images of Palestinian flags and olive trees.
This was the scene where Columbia students gathered last Thursday for a “peaceful protest art installation” and demonstration organized by the campus chapters of Jewish Voice for Peace and Students for Justice in Palestine. Hundreds of students demanded that Columbia publicly call for a ceasefire in Gaza, divest its endowment from corporations complicit in Israeli apartheid, and end its academic programs in Tel Aviv.
The next day, Gerald Rosberg, chair of the Special Committee on Campus Safety, announced Columbia had suspended its chapters of JVP and SJP through the end of the semester, citing an “unauthorized event” that “included threatening rhetoric and intimidation.” The announcement quickly drew widespread criticism, including from hundreds of Jewish faculty who denounced the “vague allegations” that served as grounds for the suspensions."

Student Protests for Gaza Targeted by Pro-Israel Groups for Alleged Civil Rights Violations

Amid an upswell of student support for Palestinians, Israel advocacy groups are weaponizing civil rights law to quell dissent.

theintercept.com

 

[weaver2]

Moral preening is a drug. You more you do it the more you want. I hate to harsh your indignation buzz, but if you had a clue what this topic is even about, you might have noticed that I never actually accused anyone of calling for genocide. I did not even refer to the protesting students in my last post.

I didn't say you accused anyone but you certainly did say "...how is it acceptable under the speech code to call for the deaths of all Jews everywhere" You are right; it isn't acceptable. It does violate school policy but who is saying this or carrying it on signs? I cannot find any evidence that anybody is calling for the death of all Jews. All I'm asking for is evidence.

Go educate yourself and come back.

Be glad to, name the topic.

I will say this though. While the students don't seem to have specifically called for the death of all Jews everywhere, they definitely made Jewish students at Harvard and probably Penn feel threatened and scared.

How? If students are not calling for the death of all Jews what is it they are saying

Some reported being afraid to leave their rooms to go to class. This is absolutely a violation of the code of conduct and the protesting students who caused this to happen should be punished up to and including expulsion if warranted.

Punished for what. So far nobody has posted anything that the protesting students have actually said.

 

[TearItAllDown]

UPenn is my alma mater, twice. In the 80's UPenn was considered a slightly right leaning university. It leaves me scratching my head and wondering what the hell could have happened to such a fine university. I always thought my daughter would go to UPenn, but I am glad she remained in Switzerland for her college studies, and now she is doing a Ph.D. in Italy. Funny thing is, during her studies not once did they discuss politics. If she had gone to UPenn I can only guess that she would have face tattoos, multiple facial piercings, some godawful hair color, and spends all of her day complaining about Trump and abortion limitations in a political cesspool forum like DP.

 

[Rumpel]

As well they should be.

Magill is a disgrace to UPenn at this juncture

And has already cost them donors.

magill has resigned now

 

[Rumpel]

She resigned as President, remains a faculty member.

ok

 

[NatMorton]

The thing is nobody has said what the students were chanting or shouting or carrying on their signs. Someone quoted the shouts at the Jewish owned falafel restaurant in Philly. They accused the owner of genocide, presumably of Palestinians. I've looked at pictures of some of the student protest signs. None of them are calling for the extermination of Jews. All we have is Ms Stefanik's hysterical badgering of the three presidents , with no statement of actual words used, that students were demanding the genocide of Jews.

A lot of the protestors are Jewish and Jewish professors. From Columbia Uni. in NYC:
"In front of Columbia University’s Low Memorial Library, seven infant-sized bundles of white cloth rested on the steps, splattered with red paint. Behind the swaddles, plywood boards read “10,600 lives slaughtered,” “4,412 children,” and “let Gaza live,” alongside images of Palestinian flags and olive trees.
This was the scene where Columbia students gathered last Thursday for a “peaceful protest art installation” and demonstration organized by the campus chapters of Jewish Voice for Peace and Students for Justice in Palestine. Hundreds of students demanded that Columbia publicly call for a ceasefire in Gaza, divest its endowment from corporations complicit in Israeli apartheid, and end its academic programs in Tel Aviv.
The next day, Gerald Rosberg, chair of the Special Committee on Campus Safety, announced Columbia had suspended its chapters of JVP and SJP through the end of the semester, citing an “unauthorized event” that “included threatening rhetoric and intimidation.” The announcement quickly drew widespread criticism, including from hundreds of Jewish faculty who denounced the “vague allegations” that served as grounds for the suspensions."

Student Protests for Gaza Targeted by Pro-Israel Groups for Alleged Civil Rights Violations

Amid an upswell of student support for Palestinians, Israel advocacy groups are weaponizing civil rights law to quell dissent.

theintercept.com

Suppose it had been an ant-BLM protest and a band of white students had surrounded a black-owned business and began chanting that the owner was a Marxist race baiter?

The point isn’t what the students said. It’s the school’s tolerance afforded to anti Jewish speech not given to less politically favored speech.

 

[eman623]

I didn't say you accused anyone but you certainly did say "...how is it acceptable under the speech code to call for the deaths of all Jews everywhere" You are right; it isn't acceptable. It does violate school policy but who is saying this or carrying it on signs? I cannot find any evidence that anybody is calling for the death of all Jews. All I'm asking for is evidence.

So you didn't say I accused anyone but nonetheless you demanded I "support [my] accusation with examples and show pictures"? That makes zero sense.

How? If students are not calling for the death of all Jews what is it they are saying

How? Are you suggesting that the only way to make someone feel threatened or scared is to call for a genocide?

Tell me if this seems intimidating and would make someone feel scared:

Punished for what. So far nobody has posted anything that the protesting students have actually said.

They have now. In fact one grad student who joined in the intimidation was removed as a proctor and evicted from student housing. The editor of the Harvard Law Review was also identified on the video - but as far as I can tell, remains at his post.

This is insufficient in my opinion. Every single student who took part in intimidating other students should be disciplined and required to take sensitivity training, and the protest organizers should be expelled or at least placed on probation and required to apologize publicly to the Jewish students.

 

[weaver2]

Tell me if this seems intimidating and would make someone feel scared:




They have now. In fact one grad student who joined in the intimidation was removed as a proctor and evicted from student housing. The editor of the Harvard Law Review was also identified on the video - but as far as I can tell, remains at his post.

This is insufficient in my opinion. Every single student who took part in intimidating other students should be disciplined and required to take sensitivity training, and the protest organizers should be expelled or at least placed on probation and required to apologize publicly to the Jewish students.

Finally, actual proof. Thank you. That behavior is unacceptable.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I have a big problem with the Palestinian Pogrom currently unfolding in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[JBG]

I have a big problem with the Palestinian Pogrom currently unfolding in Gaza and the West Bank.

Hopefully yo mean the one that unfolded October 7. Did they think Israel was just going to sit there?

 

[Rumpel]

So you didn't say I accused anyone but nonetheless you demanded I "support [my] accusation with examples and show pictures"? That makes zero sense.


How? Are you suggesting that the only way to make someone feel threatened or scared is to call for a genocide?

Tell me if this seems intimidating and would make someone feel scared:




They have now. In fact one grad student who joined in the intimidation was removed as a proctor and evicted from student housing. The editor of the Harvard Law Review was also identified on the video - but as far as I can tell, remains at his post.

This is insufficient in my opinion. Every single student who took part in intimidating other students should be disciplined and required to take sensitivity training, and the protest organizers should be expelled or at least placed on probation and required to apologize publicly to the Jewish students.

so it should be

 

[BabyAugustine]

"Alumni, students and donors of the University of Pennsylvania called on Wednesday for Elizabeth Magill to resign as president of the school, a day after she testified at a contentious congressional hearing about campus antisemitism and evaded questions about whether students calling for the genocide of Jews violated Penn’s code of conduct.

The people raising questions about her leadership included Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who said he found her statements “unacceptable.”

“It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else,” Governor Shapiro said Wednesday in a meeting with reporters. “I’ve said many times, leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity, and Liz Magill failed to meet that simple test.”
“There should be no nuance to that — she needed to give a one-word answer,” he added.

Link

Should students be punished for saying such an abhorrent thing, or should the First Amendment protect them? I'm included to support the First Amendment.

Your false dichotomy puts you in a corner.
The real matter is freedom of contract. I pay BIG BUCKS for my kid to go to Penn for an education , for a career and a broadening of mind -- and I get some hatefilled spineless asshole supports genocide speech.
I am not getting what I paid for,and among other things I pay HER SALARY

 

[BabyAugustine]

Yes, resigning is the only decent thing .
You can't say "well, I can't really take a stand on whether X are genocidal killers"
YOu can and you must. If I pay megabucks for my kids to go there , you do it or I put them elsewhere.

 

[multivita-man]

The real matter is freedom of contract.

You don't have a freedom of contract. A contract is the law, and the law is whatever in the contract.

I pay BIG BUCKS for my kid to go to Penn for an education , for a career and a broadening of mind -- and I get some hatefilled spineless asshole supports genocide speech.

Quote where she said she supports genocide speech. She tried to provide a nuanced answer to someone who insisted on a binary yes/no answer. The nature of free speech and academic debate is that it is often not binary. These university officials' big mistake (and the mistake by the schools' lawyers and public affairs team) was allowing them to testify before a committee that was trying to use them for political points and soundbytes.

I am not getting what I paid for,and among other things I pay HER SALARY

You're not a student at Penn, Harvard, or MIT, so there's no concern then.