Majority of republicans say colleges are bad for america (yes, really) (1 Viewer)

[Fenton Lum]

Thread title pretty much says it all. How dumb does someone have to be to think college is a bad thing?

Revisit the Powell Memorandum, it's all in there.

 

[Fenton Lum]

lol...yeah. That's the news one now. In fact, according to that tribe of idiots college, the medial community, the insurance industry, the news, the intelligence community, the FBI, the courts, and even Republicans not in lock step with them are all part of some vast Leftist conspiracy headed by George Soros.


Come to think of it...that totally explains why they hate college.

Meh, the ruse is just for the unsibstantial people to confuse themselves with.

Out and about in the Hamptons at Lally Weymouth's annual party - POLITICO

Ivanka Trump And Jared Kushner Party In The Hamptons With Political Heavyweights

https://needtoknow.news/2017/07/trump-team-parties-soros-koch-schumer-hamptons/

 

[vegas giants]

LOL

Well, the research shows graduates have significant deficits in critical thinking skills, among other problems.

Washing away the rhetoric and implications the alt-left author featured in the OP is trying to sell, the primary problem with colleges and universities today is found in the horrendous cost they enslave students to cover, and the poor job they do in preparing students for a future career.

All people should be concerned with this result, as opposed to the lame attempt to suggest Republicans don't want people to receive college educations.

I wouldn't argue against greatly increasing pell grants

 

[calamity]

LOL

Well, the research shows graduates have significant deficits in critical thinking skills, among other problems.

Washing away the rhetoric and implications the alt-left author featured in the OP is trying to sell, the primary problem with colleges and universities today is found in the horrendous cost they enslave students to cover, and the poor job they do in preparing students for a future career.

All people should be concerned with this result, as opposed to the lame attempt to suggest Republicans don't want people to receive college educations.

College should be taxpayer funded and a growth industry instead of something putting students into deep debt so that investors can earn ROE by underwriting high interest loans.

 

[code1211]

The point by many on this thread is that the reason colleges are bad now is because the left has control of them.

So when and why are the right so weak and powerless in higher ed? The left did not use guns and tanks in a coup to take over higher ed. The right must have just given up. Based on this theory

That is not a reason to worry. If those that control anything are impartial brokers of their product, then that is almost always a good thing.

In the case of our Universities, there is a bias against various topics and in favor of various topics that have absolutely nothing to do with curriculum.

Those that control Universities' engage in censorship, often using prior restraint. They may, as an example, see evil in a baker not serving a gay couple citing it as bias and discrimination.

They see no problem at all, however, in denying a platform to anyone who opposes their preferred ideologies.

IF the issue is freedom of speech and expanded exposure to greater variety of thoughts, THEN they should oppose all censorship and endorse any vehicle that expands the market place of ideas ESPECIALLY ON THEIR OWN CAMPUS.

The goal of the academic elite, then, is not a higher principle of creating a wider spectrum of thinking. It is merely censorship of ideas with which they disagree.

I would submit that the lack of esteem rendered to the Academic elite is recognition of their hypocrisy, not dismissal of their credentialed intelligence.

 

[vegas giants]

That is not a reason to worry. If those that control anything are impartial brokers of their product, then that is almost always a good thing.

In the case of our Universities, there is a bias against various topics and in favor of various topics that have absolutely nothing to do with curriculum.

Those that control Universities' engage in censorship, often using prior restraint. They may, as an example, see evil in a baker not serving a gay couple citing it as bias and discrimination.

They see no problem at all, however, in denying a platform to anyone who opposes their preferred ideologies.

IF the issue is freedom of speech and expanded exposure to greater variety of thoughts, THEN they should oppose all censorship and endorse any vehicle that expands the market place of ideas ESPECIALLY ON THEIR OWN CAMPUS.

The goal of the academic elite, then, is not a higher principle of creating a wider spectrum of thinking. It is merely censorship of ideas with which they disagree.

I would submit that the lack of esteem rendered to the Academic elite is recognition of their hypocrisy, not dismissal of their credentialed intelligence.

How can I be more clear? Why aren't universities bastions of right wing thinking? How were they FORCED out? Was there a coup....and I missed it?

 

[JamesBY]

You have yet to prove that statement thus it is your opinion, not fact. 1.6% GDP growth is a FACT, 9.3 trillion added to the debt is a FACT, 24 million losing their insurance is an OPINION

Yes, the multi trillion projected add on by Trump's budget is a fact promulgated by CBO. The 22 to 24 million is a fact promulgated by CBO.

So, we listen to you, or to CBO? Don't be silly.

 

[Conservative]

Yes, the multi trillion projected add on by Trump's budget is a fact promulgated by CBO. The 22 to 24 million is a fact promulgated by CBO.

So, we listen to you, or to CBO? Don't be silly.

There is no Trump budget so again you speculate without actual facts and when that budget goes into effect IF it goes into effect it will be October 2017 and has nothing to do with the past. What is happening now is that Trump is spending the Obama budget items and we currently have less debt than when Trump took office. What CBO does is give OPINIONS not FACT. the only true fact is that it is a CBO report. what you are showing is the OP is exactly correct.

 

[vegas giants]

There is no Trump budget so again you speculate without actual facts and when that budget goes into effect IF it goes into effect it will be October 2017 and has nothing to do with the past. What is happening now is that Trump is spending the Obama budget items and we currently have less debt than when Trump took office. What CBO does is give OPINIONS not FACT. the only true fact is that it is a CBO report. what you are showing is the OP is exactly correct.

The budget is not how we spend our bills. It never has been. The current defense authorization bill is being voted on right now for example

 

[ocean515]

I wouldn't argue against greatly increasing pell grants

Until colleges and universities can be stopped from ripping off students, anything that starves the beast is a good thing.

If one were to allow themselves to rise above the propaganda, they would see the dramatic increase in tuition has no relationship to the results being seen by graduates.

 

[vegas giants]

Until colleges and universities can be stopped from ripping off students, anything that starves the beast is a good thing.

If one were to allow themselves to rise above the propaganda, they would see the dramatic increase in tuition has no relationship to the results being seen by graduates.

I agree tuition costs have got out of hand

 

[ocean515]

College should be taxpayer funded and a growth industry instead of something putting students into deep debt so that investors can earn ROE by underwriting high interest loans.

For the most part, colleges and universities are tax payer funded.

When banks, and now the government - thanks to the EX President - made it easy for someone with no job and no credit history to borrow $100,000, the college and universities took the money and ran with it.

It's absolutely a crime what colleges and universities have done to young people, and that is the basis for the Republicans attitude.

 

[Conservative]

The budget is not how we spend our bills. It never has been. The current defense authorization bill is being voted on right now for example

The budget is a guideline by line item and it is appropriations that generate the spending, not the actual budget. We are operating under the Obama budget right now and any spending and appropriations are being done by Trump. There is no Trump deficit at this time as the revenue far exceeds the expenditures thanks to the jobs being created

 

[ocean515]

I agree tuition costs have got out of hand

A student should find a college degree relevant and rewarding, a compliment to a future career.

They shouldn't find it a burden carving a significant chunk out of their monthly earnings for the next 25-30 years.

That is the crime.

Worse, make college free, and unless the requirements for graduation are made much more difficult, obtaining one won't mean a whole lot to future employers.

 

[vegas giants]

The budget is a guideline by line item and it is appropriations that generate the spending, not the actual budget. We are operating under the Obama budget right now and any spending and appropriations are being done by Trump. There is no Trump deficit at this time as the revenue far exceeds the expenditures thanks to the jobs being created

The budget has no force of law at all. Decisions made now on appropriations now have nothing to do with Obama.

 

[vegas giants]

The budget is a guideline by line item and it is appropriations that generate the spending, not the actual budget. We are operating under the Obama budget right now and any spending and appropriations are being done by Trump. There is no Trump deficit at this time as the revenue far exceeds the expenditures thanks to the jobs being created

Of course there is a deficit

 

[Fenton Lum]

How can I be more clear? Why aren't universities bastions of right wing thinking? How were they FORCED out? Was there a coup....and I missed it?

See the Powell Memorandum, the power structure was terrified democracy might break out in america during the 1960s-1970s.

 

[vegas giants]

See the Powell Memorandum, the power structure was terrified democracy might break out in america during the 1960s-1970s.

Though Powell’s memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration’s “hands-off business” philosophy.

 

[Conservative]

The budget has no force of law at all. Decisions made now on appropriations now have nothing to do with Obama.

Not sure what your point is but most people know that. The budget has to be approved by Congress and the budget provides guidelines for spending appropriation bills. it is spending and revenue that causes the deficits and the deficits are added to the debt. The claim was made that CBO PROJECTED huge Trump deficits but the spending bills now being discussed do not add up to those deficits CBO projects as they aren't part of the Trump budget but rather the fiscal year 2016 budget and spending. Any deficit will be Trump's just like the 2009 deficit was Obama's since both Trump and Obama are spending most of the money in those fiscal years.

 

[Conservative]

Of course there is a deficit

No, sorry there isn't and I gave you the Treasury link to prove it. It is Treasury data that is factual and what goes to the debt

 

[Fenton Lum]

Though Powell’s memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration’s “hands-off business” philosophy.

It was much more than "hands off", but yeah, the very aim was to do what they whine about.

 

[Fenton Lum]

No, sorry there isn't and I gave you the Treasury link to prove it. It is Treasury data that is factual and what goes to the debt

Pffffffffffffffffft, we have no idea whatwe really spend on military empire and surveillance, get real. And by design we do not.

 

[calamity]

Until colleges and universities can be stopped from ripping off students, anything that starves the beast is a good thing.

If one were to allow themselves to rise above the propaganda, they would see the dramatic increase in tuition has no relationship to the results being seen by graduates.

We live in a world where two years of college are almost required to make even a lick of sense of it. Four years in a discipline like engineering, dental hygiene, or accounting is enough for a good job. And, a minimum of six years in anything else is needed to even get a sniff at a good salary right out of college. A 4-year degree in Chemical Engineering, for example, is probably worth more than most Mater's Degrees and even a few PHD's in the liberal arts.

Of course, there is always the option of career development right out of high school through specialized vocational training, like HVAC, for example, but that leaves a person vulnerable to changing technologies, as we see with countless professions that no longer exist. Still, I would not be against a son or daughter becoming an underwater welder, electrician, hair stylist, robotics technician, web developer, etc. But, make no mistake, they are still left at a disadvantage when adapting to changes and understanding the world around them.

 

[Threegoofs]

LOL

Well, the research shows graduates have significant deficits in critical thinking skills, among other problems.

Washing away the rhetoric and implications the alt-left author featured in the OP is trying to sell, the primary problem with colleges and universities today is found in the horrendous cost they enslave students to cover, and the poor job they do in preparing students for a future career.

All people should be concerned with this result, as opposed to the lame attempt to suggest Republicans don't want people to receive college educations.

Ah, yes.

This explains why the GOP has higher education funding as a big priority.

 

[ocean515]

We live in a world where two years of college are almost required to make even a lick of sense of it. Four years in a discipline like engineering, dental hygiene, or accounting is enough for a good job. And, a minimum of six years in anything else is needed to even get a sniff at a good salary right out of college. A 4-year degree in Chemical Engineering, for example, is probably worth more than most Mater's Degrees and even a few PHD's in the liberal arts.

Of course, there is always the option of career development right out of high school through specialized vocational training, like HVAC, for example, but that leaves a person vulnerable to changing technologies, as we see with countless professions that no longer exist. Still, I would not be against a son or daughter becoming an underwater welder, electrician, hair stylist, robotics technician, web developer, etc. But, make no mistake, they are still left at a disadvantage when adapting to changes and understanding the world around them.

Stop the presses. I can't disagree with a single thing you wrote. :shock: