Lies and the Republicans

[Finch]

that is true but it begs the question-where did the federal government properly get such power?

So you disagree with people getting life saving care because you believe it is government over reach? Millions of people are ball and chained to paying medical bills they can't afford for life saving procedures for the most part (if not all) of their lives..Procedures they could have never avoided because of reality...How is that freedom?

 

[iguanaman]

that is true but it begs the question-where did the federal government properly get such power?

I'm not sure but it could be the Bill of Rights.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am forced to pay into SS and Medicare. I am forced to get auto insurance. I am forced to pay for useless weapons and military bases to defend our empire. Wake up to the real world. Conservatives fought a public option in the ACA , then complain about the fact that someone’s forced to by private insurance.

As to constitutionality, what there prohibits what the ACA does?

You have that question backwards - what constitutional federal power grants the federal government the power to punish/penalize someone for simply not buying a given 'private' good/service?

Before you pipe up with "well, auto liability insurance is mandatory" keep in mind that it is only mandatory if and only if one chooses to exercise a state issued privilege (driving a motor vehicle on a public roadway). I can't be fined (or jailed) for not being covered by an auto insurance policy while simply sitting in my living room.

 

[Finch]

You have that question backwards - what constitutional federal power grants the federal government the power to punish/penalize someone for simply not buying a given 'private' good/service?

Before you pipe up with "well, auto liability insurance is mandatory" keep in mind that it is only mandatory if and only if one chooses to exercise a state issued privilege (driving a motor vehicle on a public roadway). I can't be fined (or jailed) for not being covered by an auto insurance policy while simply sitting in my living room.

To be clear I don''t totally agree with this method of the ACA, or the ACA in general. I believe health care to be a human right and the U.S. should get on the same playing level as the rest of the developed world....But to address your point, yes you can choose not to drive a vehicle and completely avoid doing so for all of your life if you wish with no repercussions to your health. However, you can not completely avoid health care all your life, which is why it should be a human right. If that person not paying into the ACA gets a broken arm, ill, or any unavoidable things that could happen in life then that person has no choice but to seek health care.

 

[ttwtt78640]

To be clear I don''t totally agree with this method of the ACA, or the ACA in general. I believe health care to be a human right and the U.S. should get on the same playing level as the rest of the developed world....But to address your point, yes you can choose not to drive a vehicle and completely avoid doing so for all of your life if you wish with no repercussions to your health. However, you can not completely avoid health care all your life, which is why it should be a human right. If that person not paying into the ACA gets a broken arm, ill, or any unavoidable things that could happen in life then that person has no choice to seek health care.

The same could be said for the need of food, clothing and shelter. Of course, those are just the basic 'needs' - to have "access to" much more (e.g. utilities, toys/tools and transportation) is desired to actually enjoy life to its fullest potential. The problem is that the more which is guaranteed to be provided to (for?) someone as a 'basic human right' (derived from the toil of others) then the less apt one is to work (contribute to society?) in order to get anything more.

BTW, insurance is not necessary to have medical care - the option still exists to pay for medical care directly.

 

[Finch]

The same could be said for the need of food, clothing and shelter. Of course, those are just the basic 'needs' - to have "access to" much more (e.g. utilities, toys/tools and transportation) is desired to actually enjoy life to its fullest potential. The problem is that the more which is guaranteed to be provided to (for?) someone as a 'basic human right' (derived from the toil of others) then the less apt one is to work (contribute to society?) in order to get anything more.

There are "affordable housing" and programs where people can seek shelter, we have a choice what type of foods we can buy and or afford and also have programs to help with families having trouble. With the ACA we tried to create "affordable health care" because it is as you say a "basic need." The difference is a person does not have a choice on what illness or cancer they get. So spending MUCH much more than what they can afford is unavoidable to get a specific treatment that could save their life.

Nobody is saying these people shouldn't or are not contributing to society....However, reality happens.

 

[JackA]

Not by far is he the smartest man in the world, but you are right liberals are mad that they simply can't outsmart him.

A fair point. Liberals and others make the mistake of doubting Trump's intelligence. Trump is far from stupid. His great ability is making other people stupid. He is sagely amoral and hypnotic to those vulnerable to his hypnotism. This is what a cult of personalty is. In the age of television it is what the Trump effect is.

 

[ttwtt78640]

There are "affordable housing" and programs where people can seek shelter, we have a choice what type of foods we can buy and or afford and also have programs to help with families having trouble. With the ACA we tried to create "affordable health care" because it is as you say a "basic need." The difference is a person does not have a choice on what illness or cancer they get. So spending MUCH much more than what they can afford is unavoidable to get a specific treatment that could save their life.

Nobody is saying these people shouldn't or are not contributing to society....However, reality happens.

We also have to face the realty that everyone born will die - it's not if but when that will happen to a given person that medical care is designed to try to alter. The idea that medical care decisions are no longer to be between a patient and doctor but should be up to the state opens up a huge can of worms. As with any finite resource - choices must be made and there is no way that "the rich" are not going to be allowed to buy whatever care they want and/or that "the poor" must accept whatever charity (public or private) will offer them.

 

[Nickyjo]

You have that question backwards - what constitutional federal power grants the federal government the power to punish/penalize someone for simply not buying a given 'private' good/service?

Before you pipe up with "well, auto liability insurance is mandatory" keep in mind that it is only mandatory if and only if one chooses to exercise a state issued privilege (driving a motor vehicle on a public roadway). I can't be fined (or jailed) for not being covered by an auto insurance policy while simply sitting in my living room.

What difference does this make? When I use and pay for Medicare, I am indirectly subsidizing private doctor, labs, etc. If the Supremes could interpret a badly written sentence about arms in the Constitution, they can do this without embarrassment.

But the insurance, pay the fine, or stay in your living room. Elections have consequences, so Arizona kept electing a cranky war hero and Obamacare stays with us. The US in our own crazy way is catching up with the rest of the world. Medicare for all was my solution. What’s yours?

 

[ttwtt78640]

What difference does this make? When I use and pay for Medicare, I am indirectly subsidizing private doctor, labs, etc. If the Supremes could interpret a badly written sentence about arms in the Constitution, they can do this without embarrassment.

But the insurance, pay the fine, or stay in your living room. Elections have consequences, so Arizona kept electing a cranky war hero and Obamacare stays with us. The US in our own crazy way is catching up with the rest of the world. Medicare for all was my solution. What’s yours?

Are you seriously saying that you would get rid of Medicaid or are going to outlaw any and all private medical care? If not then you are placing "the poor" into debt and denying basic rights of the people to buy the goods/services of their choice. What I favor is having a public option - based on 'expanded' Medicaid rather than Medicare.

 

[Nickyjo]

Are you seriously saying that you would get rid of Medicaid or are going to outlaw any and all private medical care? If not then you are placing "the poor" into debt and denying basic rights of the people to buy the goods/services of their choice. What I favor is having a public option - based on 'expanded' Medicaid rather than Medicare.

Fine with me. Sounds like a plan. Just saying that there is lots of mixture of public and private in our lives, not thatdocs shoukd work for the government.

In my cynical view, Obamacare was an effort to get the foot in the door on national health care. Obama moved the needle, as the republicans and Trump tried repeal and replace, with “replace” the sign of their acceptance of the principle.

 

[Luckyone]

why does your existence and your failure to properly fund your own existence, create a just demand upon the wealth of other individuals?

If that were the case, why do I have to pay for defense? I have guns so why is so much of my taxes going to pay for arms we don't need, and for a defense of our country that is unnecessary. Are we seeing a lot of countries invaded? I don't remember the time anyone was invaded so why are we spending $675 billion a year for it, all of which is a cost I do not want to pay but have to.

 

[Finch]

We also have to face the realty that everyone born will die - it's not if but when that will happen to a given person that medical care is designed to try to alter. The idea that medical care decisions are no longer to be between a patient and doctor but should be up to the state opens up a huge can of worms. As with any finite resource - choices must be made and there is no way that "the rich" are not going to be allowed to buy whatever care they want and/or that "the poor" must accept whatever charity (public or private) will offer them.

With universal health care decisions are still between patient and doctor, government is just taking the place of the insurer. And the current insurers are making the decisions on what you can and can not afford, which is ridiculous. And there are many different kinds of Universal healthcare. In Singapore the people there still need insurance for lesser and more common treatments. However they have universal care that treats the unavoidable and expensive life saving treatments that the average person can not afford. Some sort of universal care is needed in this country our current system is not good.

 

[ttwtt78640]

With universal health care decisions are still between patient and doctor, government is just taking the place of the insurer. And the current insurers are making the decisions on what you can and can not afford, which is ridiculous. And there are many different kinds of Universal healthcare. In Singapore the people there still need insurance for lesser and more common treatments. However they have universal care that treats the unavoidable and expensive life saving treatments that the average person can not afford. Some sort of universal care is needed in this country our current system is not good.

You can't have it both ways (see bolded above) - no matter who pays the bill, medical care is still not going to be unlimited.

 

[it's just me]

Democrats fear unity?

My gawd, are you kidding me? Democrats are all about unity between Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Indians, and everyone else that comes here. They are supposed to be the Socialist party that wants something for everyone. You have been brainwashed by Trump and the Republicans who are the ones that do not want unity. They favor the whites, they favor the rich, and they want to get rid of everyone that doesn't fit into those 2 categories.

Wake up man, you are being lied to and are believing it like a simpleton would.

You want to be united with everybody but old white men, right, that's what they keep saying. This old white man couldn't care less, I'll go my own way.

 

[Luckyone]

A fair point. Liberals and others make the mistake of doubting Trump's intelligence. Trump is far from stupid. His great ability is making other people stupid. He is sagely amoral and hypnotic to those vulnerable to his hypnotism. This is what a cult of personalty is. In the age of television it is what the Trump effect is.

Trump's ability is to obtain something at the expense of others. He is good at it because he has been doing for over 50 years and therefore he has the guidelines clear in his mind. Nonetheless, that is not considered intelligence. Intelligence is obtaining something from nothing. Trump needs fools in order to be successful, meaning that when he runs out of fools, he will fail miserably. Unfortunately the U.S. has over 350 million populace and many of those are fools so running out of fools will take many years.

The U.S. banks, which do have fools but not as many as the populace, learned their lesson in 1994 and all refused to loan him any money, meaning that Trump had to find bank fools outside of the United States but there he ran into a problem inasmuch as banks that were interested in loaning him money were Russian (through German banks) and the Russians have much more experience in fooling people as they have been doing it longer and better than Trump and in my opinion, Trump then became "the fool". God has a funny way of making everyone pay for what they do in the same coin.

So now, Trump continues to fool people but he is paying the price for doing it by having a Russian puppeteer that tells him what to do.

 

[OscarLevant]

wrong-that is for driving on public roads

It's still mandated.

 

[Eriech]

What if you don't buy it and still need it? The way it is now the rest of us pay for the uninsured care. Why do you think that is fair? Why is that better then everybody paying what they can afford and reducing costs for us all?

Why do we buy any insurance for anything? Just get it when you need it.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Grokmaster]

It's still mandated.

Utter nonsense. You don't even need a driver's license to drive on private property and your vehicle doesn't need to be licensed, either.

My grandsons learned to drive zipping around my place in my old Jeep Comanche...starting at about TWELVE YEARS OLD.

Leftists live in an alternate reality, I swear.

 

[BRubble]

The reality is that Trump is the biggest liar that ever existed in the White House. Over 5000 lies so far and counting at the tune 16 per day. He is now the most non-believable President that has ever existed. What is worse, is that most of the Republicans (especially the House and the Senate) condone and support, as well as repeat, his lies.

When Trump was running for office he promised that he would defend Social Security and Medicare and even a few days ago (on Wednesday) he said the following:

“We’re saving Social Security. The Democrats will destroy Social Security. We’re saving Medicare. The Democrats want to destroy Medicare. …We will keep it going. We’re making it stronger. We’re making Social Security stronger.”

Is he really doing it?

THE FACTS: Trump hasn’t made Medicare and Social Security stronger.

The government’s annual trustees reports on the programs released in June shows the financial condition of both worsening significantly since last year. The projected insolvency for Social Security stayed unchanged — in 2034 — but Medicare’s moved three years closer, to 2026.

In addition, after instituting a $1.5 trillion tax cut favoring the rich and signing off on a $675 billion budget for the Department of Defense, Senate Majority Leader McConnell said on Tuesday of this week "the only way to lower the record-high federal deficit would be to cut entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security."

Two months ago, the Trump administration said it won't defend central provisions of the Affordable Care Act, saying in a legal filing Thursday night that key parts of the Affordable Care Act should be invalidated and that the individual mandate is unconstitutional. The provisions DOJ says should be invalidated are central to the ACA and would gut protections for those with pre-existing conditions.

Once again, Trump lies about helping people get Health Insurance that will be cheaper, better and that will protect those with pre-existing conditions.

Lies and more lies.

Trump accuses the Democrats of being angry mobs but then again all they are doing is using their Constitutional right to peacefully protest against losing their Health insurance, their voting rights (suppression happening in all Trump held states, such as Georgia), the ability of families to stay together and the lies that prevent justice from being done. They are protesting the increased risk that is brought upon us by Trump supporting (and trying to turn us into) autocrats and dictators.

How can anyone support a pathological liar given the he lies all the time and lies to his own benefit.

Just yesterday it was found out that Trump was personally involved in blocking the move of the FBI headquarters out of Washington to the suburbs. He said it was to save the government money and that the FBI leadership did not want to move. It was a big lie. He was personally involved in blocking the move as it is something that financially helps Trump himself.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/politics/trump-fbi-building/index.html

Lies, lies, and more lies and mostly to help himself and his rich cronies.

The swamp has never been swampier than under Trump.

He is defrauding the American people and he is lying about it and his supporters believe him. What could be worse?

Blame the liberals...

 

[iguanaman]

Why do we buy any insurance for anything? Just get it when you need it.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

So you get your windstorm insurance on the day before the hurricane his? You can't do that.

 

[Pedestrian]

You can't have it both ways (see bolded above) - no matter who pays the bill, medical care is still not going to be unlimited.

'Unlimited' enough to pay 1/2 as much as in the US to live 4-5 years longer.

 

[iguanaman]

Utter nonsense. You don't even need a driver's license to drive on private property and your vehicle doesn't need to be licensed, either.

My grandsons learned to drive zipping around my place in my old Jeep Comanche...starting at about TWELVE YEARS OLD.

Leftists live in an alternate reality, I swear.

Boy I be those grandson went far stuck at "your place" because you wouldn't buy the mandated insurance for actually driving somewhere. :lol: You do know that is what cars are for....to get somewhere.

 

[OscarLevant]

Utter nonsense. You don't even need a driver's license to drive on private property and your vehicle doesn't need to be licensed, either.

My grandsons learned to drive zipping around my place in my old Jeep Comanche...starting at about TWELVE YEARS OLD.

Leftists live in an alternate reality, I swear.

So you know people who learn to drive and who seek only to drive on your property?

My, yours is a bizarro world.

I've been on this earth for 67 years, and have yet to meet anyone whose sole desire was to
learn to drive just so that they could drive solely on their grandparent's property.

At the very minimum, most everyone I know wants to drive to work which mostly consists of public property, except for their own driveways, which mandates getting a license and insurance.

What's this about an "alternate reality"?

 

[ttwtt78640]

'Unlimited' enough to pay 1/2 as much as in the US to live 4-5 years longer.

Hmm... I suppose that is why so many (blue?) states have done this - by promising that your doctor/clinic will accept half as much and will give you better care as a result. Yet when anyone talks of cutting Medicare, Medicaid or VA funding (even by 5%) it is said to be either impossible or would harm the level of care provided.