Lies and the Republicans

[ludin]

Ludin, you had me at Democrats are lunatics.
If you cannot see that this is exactly the kind of thinking that is preventing us from talking and working as a nation rather than as 2 enemies then you are a lost case.
I once said before I did not want to debate with you anymore but this last post of your cemented that in my brain.

Sorry i don't take kindly to people when they come out and insult me and insult my family. When they consider me deplorable, and call me and my family other names.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on Friday attacked Republicans as “despicable” in a misleading fundraising email for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), House Democrats’ campaign arm.

Pelosi claimed to be “shaking with anger” and asked for donations “to defeat every last despicable Republican” in the email, which the DCCC sent out under her name Friday afternoon.

No one can debate with you. Everything about the Democrats is wrong and everything about the Republicans is right and that is virtually impossible given that people are people and are mostly the same on both sides.

People debate with me all the time and those people actually can debate and can carry a discussion. The difference is they acknowledge facts and idea's.
you don't. you haven't yet even when presented with them. all you do is deflect. You keep projecting yourself onto other people because that is what you do.

I can and have been saying the same about Trump and those that support him but then Trump is an anomaly of ego and lack of knowledge and therefore he is the exception. Otherwise, not Shumer not McConnell, not Pelosi and not Ryan are lunatics and on the lunatic fringe. They are just people trying to get their way done. Nothing more and nothing less.
I am saying Good-bye to you given that I will never answer any of your posts again. You are a total brick wall that does not listen to reason or the facts. I can and will discuss with anyone even if we disagree on the topic but when talking to someone that has no grasp on reality, talking is senseless.

again you need to stop projecting. you still refuse to face facts. yes you are a brick wall. I sat here and showed you all the facts you needed to know about our medial system and all you can respond with is but republicans.

what you are doing is projecting your own lack of debate and discussion skills onto other people.

 

[Luckyone]

That statement alone sunk you, I didn't even bother with the wall of text after. Curious, your signature as independent? Its always comical to me that posters suggesting honesty don’t do the simplest thing with that tag. Anyone suggesting Schumer, Pelosi and Waters is advancing democratic values is as naive as they come.

You are entitled to you opinion though it is wrong. I follow politics closely and have for many years and I listen to everyone, including McConnell and Ryan who I consider to be as bad as you think Shumer and Pelosi are.

I don't think any of those people are lunatics and I do believe they are trying to advance Democratic values.

As far as your attempt to debase me because of my signature as Independent, that is a way to degrade those debating against you.

Let me tell you something. I am as honest as I can be as that has been my approach to life since I was a teenager (over 50 years ago). I believe 100% in being honest and everything that comes out of my mouth is true to that belief. You can accuse me of being misinformed, you can accuse me of being biased toward morals, ethics, principles and humanity (which I am) but dishonest is not in my purview.

In addition, I do have knowledge, intelligence and a whole lot of experience and I don't follow what people say just because they said it. By the same token, I am an avid reader and do have 73 years of reading and communicating with others that also have recognized intelligence, knowledge and experience. Simply stated, I am no dummy and certainly no dummy to what other people profess to be true.

As such, I will remain with the opinions I presently have as you have not been able to make your point.

 

[ataraxia]

Trump is the smartest man in the world! Highest IQ ever! Liberals are mad that they aren't smart enough. Sad!

#MAGA2020

As a liberal, though, I have to admit that he is smart: smart in a very particular way. He knows the heart and soul of the common man in America, and how to talk to it. He may be otherwise dangerously stupid, and vulgar, and deplorable, and unsophisticated. But as long as he knows the first, he will keep winning in the polls, no matter what. It is the siren call that leads to death, but can't be reisisted.

 

[woodsman]

You are entitled to you opinion though it is wrong. I follow politics closely and have for many years and I listen to everyone, including McConnell and Ryan who I consider to be as bad as you think Shumer and Pelosi are.

I don't think any of those people are lunatics and I do believe they are trying to advance Democratic values.

As far as your attempt to debase me because of my signature as Independent, that is a way to degrade those debating against you.

Let me tell you something. I am as honest as I can be as that has been my approach to life since I was a teenager (over 50 years ago). I believe 100% in being honest and everything that comes out of my mouth is true to that belief. You can accuse me of being misinformed, you can accuse me of being biased toward morals, ethics, principles and humanity (which I am) but dishonest is not in my purview.

In addition, I do have knowledge, intelligence and a whole lot of experience and I don't follow what people say just because they said it. By the same token, I am an avid reader and do have 73 years of reading and communicating with others that also have recognized intelligence, knowledge and experience. Simply stated, I am no dummy and certainly no dummy to what other people profess to be true.

As such, I will remain with the opinions I presently have as you have not been able to make your point.

Take note, I didn’t attempt to debase you, I was outright calling you a liar. Again, anyone thinking the twisted trio of Schumer.Pelosi and Waters are advancing anything other than the hard left, lunatic left agenda are ether balls out naive or completely partisan, hard core.

You may want to shelve the nonsense with me, I get you. And please, try to be just a little bit, just the tiniest bit, honest and change the lean in the signature.

 

[smallvoice]

No, it is not about out-smarting him. It is about out-lying him and I must admit that out-lying him is very difficult as he is the best I have seen at lying in my lifetime.

You CLEARLY haven't been watching either of the Clintons.

 

[ataraxia]

You CLEARLY haven't been watching either of the Clintons.

Nah... not even close. There is no equivalence.

Sure all politicians lie. But they try to be sophisticated about it. They try to be subtle about it. This Trump business is on a whole different level. It's baldfaced, unsophisticated lying straight to your face. My third grader can do better than that. It's lying to you while telling you to not trust your own eyes and ears. It's really historically unprecedented.

 

[akyron]

Actually, they're not running. They seem quite proud of their authoritarianism.
View attachment 67242496
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russian-than-democrat-shirts/

Trump threw away the racist/bigot dog-whistles and used a bullhorn. That's how he won the nomination - just "telling them what they were all thinking", which was the coded racist nonsense that they've been fed since at least the John Birch Society formed in the '50's.:lol:

"I would rather be russian than democrat" is racist? How so?

From your own link.

"The two friends from the city of Delaware said they came out to the rally because they’ve never seen a president in person before. Asked about their shirts, Alicie (left) said he didn’t understand why Trump is getting so much criticism about Russia when Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama weren’t similarly scrutinized. Asked what he would tell Democrats, Alicie said, “To jump on board this train and give him a chance.”"...

Not wholly unreasonable....

Are we back to the arcane and invisible dog whistles again that only dogs and racists can hear?

Since you are crowing about this, the rest of us will have to rely on your dedication to one of these two groups and keen senses for affidavits on the subject.

Transference and projection experts are welcome to contribute.

 

[DamnYankee]

Lies and the Republicans

You can always tell when we are getting close to an important election. Threads of these types get more and more whacker-doodles as election day gets near. :twocents:

 

[woodsman]

Nah... not even close. There is no equivalence.

Sure all politicians lie. But they try to be sophisticated about it. They try to be subtle about it. This Trump business is on a whole different level. It's baldfaced, unsophisticated lying straight to your face. My third grader can do better than that. It's lying to you while telling you to not trust your own eyes and ears. It's really historically unprecedented.

So, as long as the lies come with a soft touch you are ok with it? While Obama was in office I used to watch his press conferences, speeches and rallies in amazement of the lies and who falls for this crap. Yep, it was the naive liberals now lost.

 

[AlphaOmega]

The reality is that Trump is the biggest liar that ever existed in the White House. Over 5000 lies so far and counting at the tune 16 per day. He is now the most non-believable President that has ever existed. What is worse, is that most of the Republicans (especially the House and the Senate) condone and support, as well as repeat, his lies.

When Trump was running for office he promised that he would defend Social Security and Medicare and even a few days ago (on Wednesday) he said the following:

“We’re saving Social Security. The Democrats will destroy Social Security. We’re saving Medicare. The Democrats want to destroy Medicare. …We will keep it going. We’re making it stronger. We’re making Social Security stronger.”

Is he really doing it?

THE FACTS: Trump hasn’t made Medicare and Social Security stronger.

The government’s annual trustees reports on the programs released in June shows the financial condition of both worsening significantly since last year. The projected insolvency for Social Security stayed unchanged — in 2034 — but Medicare’s moved three years closer, to 2026.

In addition, after instituting a $1.5 trillion tax cut favoring the rich and signing off on a $675 billion budget for the Department of Defense, Senate Majority Leader McConnell said on Tuesday of this week "the only way to lower the record-high federal deficit would be to cut entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security."

Two months ago, the Trump administration said it won't defend central provisions of the Affordable Care Act, saying in a legal filing Thursday night that key parts of the Affordable Care Act should be invalidated and that the individual mandate is unconstitutional. The provisions DOJ says should be invalidated are central to the ACA and would gut protections for those with pre-existing conditions.

Once again, Trump lies about helping people get Health Insurance that will be cheaper, better and that will protect those with pre-existing conditions.

Lies and more lies.

Trump accuses the Democrats of being angry mobs but then again all they are doing is using their Constitutional right to peacefully protest against losing their Health insurance, their voting rights (suppression happening in all Trump held states, such as Georgia), the ability of families to stay together and the lies that prevent justice from being done. They are protesting the increased risk that is brought upon us by Trump supporting (and trying to turn us into) autocrats and dictators.

How can anyone support a pathological liar given the he lies all the time and lies to his own benefit.

Just yesterday it was found out that Trump was personally involved in blocking the move of the FBI headquarters out of Washington to the suburbs. He said it was to save the government money and that the FBI leadership did not want to move. It was a big lie. He was personally involved in blocking the move as it is something that financially helps Trump himself.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/politics/trump-fbi-building/index.html

Lies, lies, and more lies and mostly to help himself and his rich cronies.

The swamp has never been swampier than under Trump.

He is defrauding the American people and he is lying about it and his supporters believe him. What could be worse?

The reality is actually you hate Trump because what he is doing is succeeding. His success invalidates leftism. This is the real reason you guys have attacked him in the manner you have. For example you dont really hate racists otherwise you would have excoriated warren for her exploitation of minoritys. You dont really hate Nazis otherwise you wouldnt be emulating them. What you hate the most is not liars, no, what you hate the most is a succesful America.

 

[ataraxia]

The reality is actually you hate Trump because what he is doing is succeeding. His success invalidates leftism. This is the real reason you guys have attacked him in the manner you have. For example you dont really hate racists otherwise you would have excoriated warren for her exploitation of minoritys. You dont really hate Nazis otherwise you wouldnt be emulating them. What you hate the most is not liars, no, what you hate the most is a succesful America.

Nah. What bugs me about Trump is that he is so abrasive and rude. He sees the fracture lines in American society, and puts in his thumb on them and keeps pushing hoping to hear a crack- whether it's religion, race, ethnicity, etc...

It's hard not to feel alienated and insulted in Trump's America if you are anything other than a straight, white, Christian (specifically, protestant), male.

 

[ataraxia]

So, as long as the lies come with a soft touch you are ok with it? While Obama was in office I used to watch his press conferences, speeches and rallies in amazement of the lies and who falls for this crap. Yep, it was the naive liberals now lost.

Hmmm... maybe I am saying that.

Obama once said that if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. With the new health plan, I kept mine. And everyone I know kept theirs. And it's not like I am super-rich or privileged or anything. I just saw a few people on Fox News who said they didn't. And it wasn't clear to me that they weren't going to lose them anyways. But anyway, it was not malignant lying meant to hurt people. And it was not blatant and in your face lying.

Now compare that to 6 years straight of telling everyone how they weren't going to believe what his top people were finding on Obama's Kenyan birth certificate. Or that he saw throngs of Muslims celebrating on NJ rooftops after 9/11- to incite dangerous levels of fear, anger, division, and hatred against a large group of people just based on their religion. It is vicious, malignant, intentional lies. Or talking about how his inauguration crowd was the largest in history. I mean come on, we can see the pictures, man. That's like worse than my 3rd grader with chocolate all over their mouth telling me they don't know who ate all the chocolate chip cookies in the cookie jar.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

"I would rather be russian than democrat" is racist? How so?

From your own link.

"The two friends from the city of Delaware said they came out to the rally because they’ve never seen a president in person before. Asked about their shirts, Alicie (left) said he didn’t understand why Trump is getting so much criticism about Russia when Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama weren’t similarly scrutinized. Asked what he would tell Democrats, Alicie said, “To jump on board this train and give him a chance.”"...

Not wholly unreasonable....

Are we back to the arcane and invisible dog whistles again that only dogs and racists can hear?

Since you are crowing about this, the rest of us will have to rely on your dedication to one of these two groups and keen senses for affidavits on the subject.

Transference and projection experts are welcome to contribute.

I said Trumpers some were authoritarian (see pic) and that Trump's rhetoric was racist/bigoted (self-evident).

Speaking of transference and projection, yours must have stunted your reading comprehension.

 

[akyron]

I said Trumpers some were authoritarian (see pic) and that Trump's rhetoric was racist/bigoted (self-evident).

Speaking of transference and projection, yours must have stunted your reading comprehension.

How was the question.... You have listed no evidence yet. That is all.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Nah. What bugs me about Trump is that he is so abrasive and rude. He sees the fracture lines in American society, and puts in his thumb on them and keeps pushing hoping to hear a crack- whether it's religion, race, ethnicity, etc...

It's hard not to feel alienated and insulted in Trump's America if you are anything other than a straight, white, Christian (specifically, protestant), male.

and Obama didnt? Obama was getting cops assasinated due to his divisiveness ideology. Trump is doing things to help America not harm it.

 

[Luckyone]

Take note, I didn’t attempt to debase you, I was outright calling you a liar. Again, anyone thinking the twisted trio of Schumer.Pelosi and Waters are advancing anything other than the hard left, lunatic left agenda are ether balls out naive or completely partisan, hard core.

You may want to shelve the nonsense with me, I get you. And please, try to be just a little bit, just the tiniest bit, honest and change the lean in the signature.

No thank you. I will keep the signature as it is and given that you have now clearly called me a liar, we now understand how much you truly respect other people, especially since I have given you a clear explanation of who I am and what I believe in. As such, I will now debate with you in the exact way that you debate with me, by calling you a liar as well.

 

[Luckyone]

You CLEARLY haven't been watching either of the Clintons.

The Clintons are neophytes compared to Trump. The Clinton's have lied when it has been to their advantage. Trump is a pathological liar that lies even when he doesn't have to and even if the lying actually hurts him. He has no match, as far as lying is concerned.

This is worse because in the case of the Clinton's their lies could be defined and controlled as when it benefited them it could be a lie and therefore people could protect themselves. Trump lies so much that truth is totally lost about everything.

 

[Luckyone]

The reality is actually you hate Trump because what he is doing is succeeding. His success invalidates leftism. This is the real reason you guys have attacked him in the manner you have. For example you dont really hate racists otherwise you would have excoriated warren for her exploitation of minoritys. You dont really hate Nazis otherwise you wouldnt be emulating them. What you hate the most is not liars, no, what you hate the most is a succesful America.

You evidently have not read any of my previous posts and are guessing at to why I am writing this post. Yes, I hate Trump because he does not represent anything I believe in, such as morals, ethics, principles and humanity but it is not because he is succeeding economically. In fact and being a stock trader, Trump has been good for my pocketbook as I have taken advantage of the rise in the market that is due to him and the Republican's tax cuts and deregulation. I have said this before and have given credit where credit is due.

Nonetheless, I have also said that to me economics are not my #1 goal in life. In fact, if you read my signature I say that clearly. As such, that means that what is important to me is who the person is and not so much what he does, which in this particular case is help himself and if some crumbs fall to others so be it.

You really need not to stereotype, which is what you are doing. You say "this is the real reason you guys have attacked him. First of all, I am just 1 person and not a bunch of guys and since you do not know me personally, you cannot bunch me in with other "guys". Secondly, I am not a leftist. I am an independent that has in the past voted Republican though generally I "lean" democratic because I believe in morals, ethics, principles and humanity and the Republicans often throw those aside.

You said: I really don't hate racists? I do, because it goes against what God preaches and it goes against what Americans should be. After all, what happened to "all men are created equal". You say I am emulating Nazis? how am I doing that. They hated everyone that wasn't white and hated white Jews especially. My best friend in life is a Jew....and last but not least, you say that I don't really hate liars, but that I hate a successful America. How do you measure greatness? Economically? I measure greatness by how many hero's we have. How many people were willing to give their lives to keep us free, to uphold our beliefs and to make America the most respected and loved country in the world. Money does not do that, money corrupts. What had made us great in the past is that everyone looked "up" to us for what we represented, which was democracy, freedom, support for the under privileged and open arms for the poor, the tired, your huddled masses........it does not say anything about give me your rich and your money. As such, you calling America successful because of economics is really treasonous to what our forefathers fought for and accomplished.

I think you need to read and learn before you open your mouth again, and especially learn that each person is different and that we are not just a "bunch of guys" thinking alike. Are you like all other Trump supporters?

 

[Luckyone]

and Obama didnt? Obama was getting cops assasinated due to his divisiveness ideology. Trump is doing things to help America not harm it.

Every single time when a criticism of Trump is given, Trump supporters immediately say "and Obama (or Hillary) didn't?"

When are you going to either stand up for (with facts) or criticize the incumbent person in charge (Trump in this case). Why should all or any of the previous Presidents (or would be Presidents) be criticized when they are already "out of office". Are we not trying to make America better or simply finding fault to see who was the "worst"?

Do you support Trump even if he doing doing something wrong simply because it is not "as wrong" as what was done before? Wrong is wrong and what should be done is try to change it while it is happening, not as a past thought. Is OJ murdering his wife and her boyfriend still of any interest. Will it change anything even if now found guilty? Does that mean we need to key on OJ now and disregard any new OJ's simply because they may not be as bad as OJ was?

By the way, do you consider reputation important? Do you consider moral values important? Because in those two things, Trump is harming America and not helping it.

 

[AlphaOmega]

You evidently have not read any of my previous posts and are guessing at to why I am writing this post. Yes, I hate Trump because he does not represent anything I believe in, such as morals, ethics, principles and humanity but it is not because he is succeeding economically. In fact and being a stock trader, Trump has been good for my pocketbook as I have taken advantage of the rise in the market that is due to him and the Republican's tax cuts and deregulation. I have said this before and have given credit where credit is due.

Nonetheless, I have also said that to me economics are not my #1 goal in life. In fact, if you read my signature I say that clearly. As such, that means that what is important to me is who the person is and not so much what he does, which in this particular case is help himself and if some crumbs fall to others so be it.

You really need not to stereotype, which is what you are doing. You say "this is the real reason you guys have attacked him. First of all, I am just 1 person and not a bunch of guys and since you do not know me personally, you cannot bunch me in with other "guys". Secondly, I am not a leftist. I am an independent that has in the past voted Republican though generally I "lean" democratic because I believe in morals, ethics, principles and humanity and the Republicans often throw those aside.

You said: I really don't hate racists? I do, because it goes against what God preaches and it goes against what Americans should be. After all, what happened to "all men are created equal". You say I am emulating Nazis? how am I doing that. They hated everyone that wasn't white and hated white Jews especially. My best friend in life is a Jew....and last but not least, you say that I don't really hate liars, but that I hate a successful America. How do you measure greatness? Economically? I measure greatness by how many hero's we have. How many people were willing to give their lives to keep us free, to uphold our beliefs and to make America the most respected and loved country in the world. Money does not do that, money corrupts. What had made us great in the past is that everyone looked "up" to us for what we represented, which was democracy, freedom, support for the under privileged and open arms for the poor, the tired, your huddled masses........it does not say anything about give me your rich and your money. As such, you calling America successful because of economics is really treasonous to what our forefathers fought for and accomplished.

I think you need to read and learn before you open your mouth again, and especially learn that each person is different and that we are not just a "bunch of guys" thinking alike. Are you like all other Trump supporters?

Please name the presidential candidate that demonstrated the morals you believe in.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Every single time when a criticism of Trump is given, Trump supporters immediately say "and Obama (or Hillary) didn't?"

When are you going to either stand up for (with facts) or criticize the incumbent person in charge (Trump in this case). Why should all or any of the previous Presidents (or would be Presidents) be criticized when they are already "out of office". Are we not trying to make America better or simply finding fault to see who was the "worst"?

Do you support Trump even if he doing doing something wrong simply because it is not "as wrong" as what was done before? Wrong is wrong and what should be done is try to change it while it is happening, not as a past thought. Is OJ murdering his wife and her boyfriend still of any interest. Will it change anything even if now found guilty? Does that mean we need to key on OJ now and disregard any new OJ's simple because they may not be as bad as OJ was?

By the way, do you consider reputation important? Do you consider moral values important? Because in those two things, Trump is harming America and not helping it.

Lets test this post. Trump supports enforcing our borders. Are you against this?

 

[Luckyone]

Please name the presidential candidate that demonstrated the morals you believe in.

I need to explain something first before naming anyone.

There have been very few people in the world's history that fulfilled all of the requirements of being hero's and probably even fewer Presidents since politics does not usually allow such people to rise. Nonetheless and with the exception of Trump, the Presidents I have been involved with (starting with Eisenhower) all had at least 1 of the 4 requirements I mention (morality, ethics, principles or humanity). As long as the person has at least one of them, he or she would "pass the test". Trump has none and that is why I disqualify him.

Even Hillary had at least one, which was humanity. She showed humanity by helping women and the underprivileged throughout her life.

Show me where Trump has shown any of the 4?

As far as President's that have shown more than one, I could name Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan, and the old Bush. Obama had at least 2 if not more as he had morals, ethics, principles and humanity. It seems that Lincoln, and Roosevelt had perhaps all 4 but since I was not alive when they were Presidents, I could not say for sure.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Carleen]

No, it is not about out-smarting him. It is about out-lying him and I must admit that out-lying him is very difficult as he is the best I have seen at lying in my lifetime.

He has said that if you repeat something enough times people will believe it. His followers certainly do. Those who fact check, not so much if at all.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I need to explain something first before naming anyone.

There have been very few people in the world's history that fulfilled all of the requirements of being hero's and probably even fewer Presidents since politics does not usually allow such people to rise. Nonetheless and with the exception of Trump, the Presidents I have been involved with (starting with Eisenhower) all had at least 1 of the 4 requirements I mention (morality, ethics, principles or humanity). As long as the person has at least one of them, he or she would "pass the test". Trump has none and that is why I disqualify him.

Even Hillary had at least one, which was humanity. She showed humanity by helping women and the underprivileged throughout her life.

Show me where Trump has shown any of the 4?

As far as President's that have shown more than one, I could name Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan, and the old Bush. Obama had at least 2 if not more as he had morals, ethics, principles and humanity. It seems that Lincoln, and Roosevelt had perhaps all 4 but since I was not alive when they were Presidents, I could not say for sure.

Does that answer your question?

I meant in the last election. Please name the candidate that best represented your moral values. Enter name here:

 

[Luckyone]

Lets test this post. Trump supports enforcing our borders. Are you against this?

Yes, I am for enforcing our borders but doing it humanely and using the laws and rules that have been established in the past through Congress. Open borders is not something I support but you must understand that we are living in a time where the world in many places is falling apart and one must understand that people are fighting for their lives and "some" humanity needs to be given.

By the way, this is also a good time to mention that all of the places people are running from are dictatorships and/or lawless nations where people have no recourse and if we are not careful, we will be heading in that direction as well, especially if we allow our democracy to die. That means, Republicans and Democrats working together.