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Liberalism vs. Biblical Christianity [W:463]

blarg said:
whats not true?

and what disaster is possible that god did not design?

what have you witnessed?

all senseless destruction and room for ruthlessness is possible only because people can be harmed against their will and what should be theirs can be taken from them them and your god is worse then any human when it comes to that

if Satan was not trying to make things better for mankind whats this Satan showing hes not fit to rule stuff about ther dosent seem to be a devil in charge and your story dosent have one that trying to do a good job so whats you point?
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These are nothing but circular questions already answered...not gonna repeat myself...
 
Elvira said:
That cuts both ways there...;)
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i dont claim to know gods dont exist but a loving all powerful one would not make a wold like this and would not have to threaten and hide from people only false religions and or oddly evil gods would need that ****
 
Elvira said:
Because He created them, man and woman, as a compliment to one another and to reproduce and fill the earth...man and woman fit together like a puzzle, figuratively and literally...man and man does not, neither does woman and woman...
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other then dick in vag action what do you men by compliment

and he should have made them attracted to the other gender then

and god dosent need you to fill the earth he can create people at will

if the other gender made them happy they would be with some one of that gender

and in either case killing or hurting people over it is senselessly evil

i love you but you not beeing happy in the right way and doing what i can do way easier on my own so you must die is crazy

you god is either made up by people who have a problem with homosexuality or its a very strange kid of evil

my gf cant have kids why is it wrong for me to be in a relation ship with her?
 
Elvira said:
I was talking about God's original purpose for man and woman...even now, when we deviate from that purpose, there is usually trouble...a wrestling within one's own mind and body, if nothing else...if everyone chose that route, the human race would become obsolete...
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why god can make people

and you siad it wanted whats best for us

forcing me to be with other men or die would not make me happy a lesbian would feel the same way

similarly forcing women on gay men or threatening them is not good for them
 
zyzygy said:
That has nothing to do with a god, he is exposing his prejudices.
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god could be evil yet to her a good explanation for why one with a problem with homosexulaity would make sense or not be evil
 
Elvira said:
These are nothing but circular questions already answered...not gonna repeat myself...
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you have not given an intelligent answer to them

evil is only possible becase god allows unwanted harm to happen (unwanted harm is the whole of evil) you have never addressed that

or given evidence a devil exists instead of harm being caused by nature and other people
 
blarg said:
you have not given an intelligent answer to them

evil is only possible becase god allows unwanted harm to happen (unwanted harm is the whole of evil) you have never addressed that

or given evidence a devil exists instead of harm being caused by nature and other people
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I have given answers in harmony with what the Bible says...not what you wanna hear, I know...
 
Elvira said:
Yeah, for anyone who doesn't wanna exist, like David, the solution is simple...kill yourself...:doh
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Too late already. No one asks to be born. It is forced on them, because that's what god intended. The most important choice of all was not left to us. God is self-centered and only cares about his plan and what he wants. He really doesn't care about his creation except as some cold lab experiment. We're all just pawns in his game, a game he didn't need to play. Was god bored? Or so power crazed that he couldn't help but create something to rule over to satisfy his infinite ego?
 
Elvira said:
I have given answers in harmony with what the Bible says...not what you wanna hear, I know...
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being in harmony with the bible would not men the bible is making sense

what i want to hear is an explanation and justification for unwanted harm in a universe with an all powerful and loving god

if you cant provide one that implys your god is made up or evil

so again why make a universe that can hurt and kill people forever whit out consent

why kill people your supposed to love especially when any evil they can do is your fault for creating the necessary conditions for evil ( free will not being 1 of those because we have gone over how you can have free will and avoid unwanted harm)

the only way that seems to work is if god is not all powerful or god is not good or god is a badly thought out human idea
 
devildavid said:
Too late already. No one asks to be born. It is forced on them, because that's what god intended. The most important choice of all was not left to us. God is self-centered and only cares about his plan and what he wants. He really doesn't care about his creation except as some cold lab experiment. We're all just pawns in his game, a game he didn't need to play. Was god bored? Or so power crazed that he couldn't help but create something to rule over to satisfy his infinite ego?
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So ya know what to do if ya don't wanna play...
 
devildavid said:
Too late already. No one asks to be born. It is forced on them, because that's what god intended. The most important choice of all was not left to us. God is self-centered and only cares about his plan and what he wants. He really doesn't care about his creation except as some cold lab experiment. We're all just pawns in his game, a game he didn't need to play. Was god bored? Or so power crazed that he couldn't help but create something to rule over to satisfy his infinite ego?
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come on all it wants is for you to be a happy slave to its arbitrary whims or dead whats more selfless and loving then that?
 
Elvira said:
So ya know what to do if ya don't wanna play...
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point out how your god makes no sense if its both good and all powerful?
 
Elvira said:
So ya know what to do if ya don't wanna play...
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Once again, too late. But at least I do what I want with my life instead of playing a game for an imaginary god and following silly, arbitrary rules. I have a lot of fun celebrating birthdays and holidays and voting in elections and associating with friends and family no matter what they believe. I will find happiness doing what I want and only misery submitting to arbitrary rules. I don't have to blindly follow a cult and hope for some great reward that isn't ever coming.
 
devildavid said:
Once again, too late. But at least I do what I want with my life instead of playing a game for an imaginary god and following silly, arbitrary rules. I have a lot of fun celebrating birthdays and holidays and voting in elections and associating with friends and family no matter what they believe. I will find happiness doing what I want and only misery submitting to arbitrary rules. I don't have to blindly follow a cult and hope for some great reward that isn't ever coming.
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So what are you complaining about? Enjoy it while you can because it won't last forever...
 
Elvira said:
I was talking about God's original purpose for man and woman...even now, when we deviate from that purpose, there is usually trouble...a wrestling within one's own mind and body, if nothing else...if everyone chose that route, the human race would become obsolete...
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I don't believe that people are gay by choice, and the percentage of people that are gay is so small I don't think it will ever make humans obsolete.

This speaks for itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

If you think that people are gay by choice, we will just have to disagree about that. I think it's likely a mixture of nature and environment, but there's no proof either way. I have seen people try to change from being gay, and that didn't turn out well.

I'm grateful that I am attracted to the opposite sex. I certainly don't want to malign people who already have to survive the stigma of being gay.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
I don't believe that people are gay by choice, and the percentage of people that are gay is so small I don't think it will ever make humans obsolete.

This speaks for itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

If you think that people are gay by choice, we will just have to disagree about that. I think it's likely a mixture of nature and environment, but there's no proof either way. I have seen people try to change from being gay, and that didn't turn out well.

I'm grateful that I am attracted to the opposite sex. I certainly don't want to malign people who already have to survive the stigma of being gay.
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Regardless of why a person is born one way or the other, ALL actions are choices...we have thoughts, good and bad, that we can choose to act on or not...I have my own demons to fight, as others have theirs...
 
devildavid said:
No one lives forever, that's for sure.
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Not in this old corrupt world, that is true...BUT...

"For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be called to mind,
Nor will they come up into the heart." Isa. 65:17

But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." 2 Pet. 3:13

"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4
 
Elvira said:
Regardless of why a person is born one way or the other, ALL actions are choices...we have thoughts, good and bad, that we can choose to act on or not...I have my own demons to fight, as others have theirs...
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"Cross to bear for Christ" is the way the mostly evangelical types on the radio here put it.

Certainly all actions can be seen as choices. However, I could not "choose" to be attracted to men, or pick out one and "be fruitful and multiply" with one, just as an example of the shoe on the other foot. My 'plumbing' would not go along with that choice. I couldn't fake it, and I think it would be cruel for me to try to get involved with someone given the dishonest nature of the setup. I suppose one could choose celibacy, but the Bible doesn't encourage that choice either, I don't think.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
"Cross to bear for Christ" is the way the mostly evangelical types on the radio here put it.

Certainly all actions can be seen as choices. However, I could not "choose" to be attracted to men, or pick out one and "be fruitful and multiply" with one, just as an example of the shoe on the other foot. My 'plumbing' would not go along with that choice. I couldn't fake it, and I think it would be cruel for me to try to get involved with someone given the dishonest nature of the setup. I suppose one could choose celibacy, but the Bible doesn't encourage that choice either, I don't think.
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No one's plumbing does...

Sure it does...the Bible encourages celibacy over ANY form of immoral sexual acts...

“Deaden, therefore, your body members that are on the earth as respects sexual immorality, uncleanness, uncontrolled sexual passion, hurtful desire, and greediness, which is idolatry.”​ Col. 3:5
 
Elvira said:
Regardless of why a person is born one way or the other, ALL actions are choices...we have thoughts, good and bad, that we can choose to act on or not...I have my own demons to fight, as others have theirs...
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Not all actions are choices, especially when you analyze what the motivation is behind them. We don't control what we like or are attracted to. We don't decide on the strength of our desires. Our desires are not inherently good or bad, it depends on the circumstances. Desire for sex is not bad in and of itself, nor is desire for pleasure. What makes it good or bad is how we act on it and the rules and mores of the culture and society we find ourselves in. Was it always bad to own slaves? Was it good to treat slaves kindly and was it good for slaves to obey rather than revolt?
 
Elvira said:
Not in this old corrupt world, that is true...BUT...

"For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be called to mind,
Nor will they come up into the heart." Isa. 65:17

But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." 2 Pet. 3:13

"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4
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There is only this world and this life.
 
Elvira said:
No one's plumbing does...

Sure it does...the Bible encourages celibacy over ANY form of immoral sexual acts...

“Deaden, therefore, your body members that are on the earth as respects sexual immorality, uncleanness, uncontrolled sexual passion, hurtful desire, and greediness, which is idolatry.”​ Col. 3:5
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Wow, I'm surprised I forgot that one. And that the evangelicals don't use it.

Thanks!
 
devildavid said:
Not all actions are choices, especially when you analyze what the motivation is behind them. We don't control what we like or are attracted to. We don't decide on the strength of our desires. Our desires are not inherently good or bad, it depends on the circumstances. Desire for sex is not bad in and of itself, nor is desire for pleasure. What makes it good or bad is how we act on it and the rules and mores of the culture and society we find ourselves in. Was it always bad to own slaves? Was it good to treat slaves kindly and was it good for slaves to obey rather than revolt?
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I think the point is that acts can usually be cast as choices (debatable) but you are right that the underlying motivations are usually subconscious.
 
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