Is Impeachment A Winning Strategy?

[Cardinal]

Except that it wasn't impeachment for a blow job. It was impeachment for committing a felony(perjury) and obstructing justice.

Yes, perjury and felony are bad, and if Clinton had been removed from office as a result my position would be that he only had himself to blame. But that incident is a useful reminder that what is criminal is not the lone and final determining factor for what is impeachable. The American public, for better or worse, decided that the reason for his perjury and obstruction of justice was not sufficiently malicious to warrant removing him from office. If the full Mueller report determines that Trump did indeed commit obstruction of justice, then you will see Republicans use a far more toxic version of that same logic: that the counter-intelligence investigation against Russian hackers and the Mueller investigation were witch hunts and that it was therefore acceptable to obstruct them.

We know this is the narrative that Republicans will resort to because they've already dismissed perjury as "process crimes," determined that a President can't commit obstruction of justice, and that is why Republican demands for evidence of crimes are disingenuous.

 

[apdst]

There never was an impeachment over a blow job. If sexual improprieties were cause for impeachment, Trump would have been gone on day 1. Clinton was impeached over perjury.

And the Republicans took a heavy hit for it, too.

 

[calamity]

And the Republicans took a heavy hit for it, too.

They'll take a heavier one for having their heads up Trump's ass. That's why an impeachment trial over the next year would pay huge dividends. It forces the GOP to either look like lap dogs or show some stones.

 

[Cardinal]

They'll take a heavier one for having their heads up Trump's ass. That's why an impeachment trial over the next year would pay huge dividends. It forces the GOP to either look like lap dogs or show some stones.

That's true. Here's what's also true: after Republicans in the Senate vote against removing him from office, Democrats will be demoralized and Republicans will turn the outcome into an exoneration narrative. This is why Republicans don't really mind the idea of impeachment.

 

[calamity]

That's true. Here's what's also true: after Republicans in the Senate vote against removing him from office, Democrats will be demoralized and Republicans will turn the outcome into an exoneration narrative. This is why Republicans don't really mind the idea of impeachment.

Or the Dems will be energized, just like White Hate got a rush of adrenaline and expanded its fanbase after OJ's acquittal.

 

[Cardinal]

Or the Dems will be energized, just like White Hate got a rush of adrenaline and expanded its fanbase after OJ's acquittal.

Another argument in favor of impeachment: the House will have access to all evidence and the DOJ can't legally stonewall them.

A caution regarding impeachment: if it's timed badly, any revelations will be forgotten long before the next election. Trump committed an impeachable offense, what...two days ago?...and we're already past it.

 

[antiquity]

If Trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors , it is a proper strategy and demanded by our Constitution. And I believe he has.

Right now, it would pass the House and he would escape conviction in the Republican dominated Senate.

The key word in your post is 'IF'...That 'if' would apply to any and all presidents past and future. But clarify your statement 'and I believe he has' can you provide us deplorables with something we can hang our hats on.

 

[haymarket]

The key word in your post is 'IF'...That 'if' would apply to any and all presidents past and future. But clarify your statement 'and I believe he has' can you provide us deplorables with something we can hang our hats on.

Why??

 

[Rogue Valley]

The GOP Senate would not convict an impeachment charge(s) no matter what Trump did.

The winning strategy is to toss Trump and his cronies out of the White House in 2020.

THEN bring the weight of justice down on all of them.

 

[calamity]

The key word in your post is 'IF'...That 'if' would apply to any and all presidents past and future. But clarify your statement 'and I believe he has' can you provide us deplorables with something we can hang our hats on.

You mean other than the two dozen hat stands already presented over the past 30 months? :roll:

 

[joko104]

Definitely the Democrats should impeach him.

Look how it destroyed Bill Clinton who afterwards never dared to appear in public and polls showed that 99+% of Americans despise him. Right? :lol:

 

[joko104]

Pursuing impeachment also would assure that money from China and Russia would rain down on Democratic politicians. China alone would be willing to give Democrats $100 billion to get rid of President Trump. Add all the money pouring in from the owners of foreign child labor sweatshops and all the businesses that employ illegal migrants.

 

[marke]

IMO, impeachment is warranted. It will also enable Congress to get their hands on all the evidence they need to build a case. Also, we know the R would be impeaching a D president right now, for less than a quarter of what Trump has done.

So, one has to ask. Would impeachment be a popular position to take? Are the American people going to turn on the impeachers or will they side with them and clamor for Trump's removal?

Democrats: 'We need to remove Trump and appoint more Trump-hating investigating teams to look for some crime to charge him with. And all non-democrat officials need to recuse themselves from the investigations.'

 

[LeoVlaming]

Abusing the constitutional impeachement process in order to depose a President one doesn't like is a blatant form of anti-democratic behavior. Trying to start such a process when you mathematically know that it is doomed to end in failure is also simply stupid.

 

[Herkamer63]

IMO, impeachment is warranted. It will also enable Congress to get their hands on all the evidence they need to build a case. Also, we know the R would be impeaching a D president right now, for less than a quarter of what Trump has done.

So, one has to ask. Would impeachment be a popular position to take? Are the American people going to turn on the impeachers or will they side with them and clamor for Trump's removal?

What evidence is there? All these guys have is dossier that has a story in there about Trump, hiring a bunch of prostitutes, getting into the bed Obama was sleeping in while he was visiting Russia, and have golden showers on it. That, by itself, disqualifies as evidence. Comey has nothing, and never had. The case file he had was empty. If he actually had something, he would have presented it a long time ago. Mueller, had not found anything during his "investigation" because then HE would have presented it. Cohen didn't have anything but HIS story (and he's a known liar), but no evidence to back it up. All the same with Avenatti. Every time someone with so called BOMBSHELL evidence, it always turned out to be a big nothing burger. This release of the Mueller report won't have anything of the sort. The Left will spin it, but nothing will come out of it and Trump will be found to have done no wrong doing. So impeachment is a MAJOR losing issue. The Republicans tried impeachment on Slick Willy Clinton and his slick willy, and nothing happened to him, even after there was actual evidence that he did someone. He served both terms fully, and then admitted he did the dirty deed. This won't be much different, other than that there is no evidence against Trump, and if impeachment IS going to be a strategy, well, Trump's chances of winning reelection have gone up substantially.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

It would absolutely be legally justified, but politiically it would be the final nail in the coffin of democratic legitimacy.

Trump would be the second President impeached in our lifetimes, while being only the third in our nation's entire history. Everyone would be forced to admit that impeachment has been nothing but a cynical political strategy since the GOP rat****ed Clinton, and the upper levels of the Federal government would be rendered utterly dysfunctional.

In other words, it's everything the ****ing GOP has been dreaming of since Reagan.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

China alone would be willing to give Democrats $100 billion to get rid of President Trump. Add all the money pouring in from the owners of foreign child labor sweatshops and all the businesses that employ illegal migrants.

What, you mean the ones manufacturing all the MAGA hats?

 

[American]

I agree that impeachment and removal of Trump is warranted; hell, it was warranted the instant he completed his oath of office.

I have my doubts about it being, at this point in Trump's first term politically or jurisprudentially sagacious because

• If he's impeached and removed, Pence is all but certain to pardon him.
• If he's impeached and not removed, which is the most likely outcome, he'll be a martyr, of sorts, unless perhaps all the Senate trial discloses all the gory details of his deeds, which I don't see happening.
• A Senate impeachment trial is a political thing, not a jurisprudential thing. The majority party, not the rule of law and not precedent, controls everything about how the proceedings transpire, including rules of evidence, inquiry times, what witnesses to call, whether and to what extent witnesses can be compelled to directly answer questions, etc.

So at this point, short of an incontrovertible "smoking gun" manifesting, there's little to be gained from impeachment hearings and a subsequent trial. And frankly, given all Trump's "water" Republicans have carried thus far, I'm not confident enough Senate GOP-ers would vote to convict Trump were there such a "smoking gun." I think even if Trump just woke and walked onto 5th Ave. and started randomly shooting people, GOP-ers would find a way to justify it.

This is exact how the impeachers have felt all along, and the very reason Pelosi is against it. She knows that stupid **** like this almost never works.

 

[American]

What, you mean the ones manufacturing all the MAGA hats?

Inside the Trump 'MAGA' hat factory - Business Insider

Burned!!!

 

[chuckiechan]

I say go for it. One more nail in the left wings coffin of ignorance.

 

[jimbo]

Yes. Your post seemed to question making use of impeachment as a fishing expedition. Well, I find it ironic considering what happened 20 years ago.

So you now admit that impeachment is a fishing expedition?

What happened 20 years ago was that Clinton was impeached not for a BJ, but for lying about it. That, too, failed.

 

[jimbo]

I predict when the Mueller Report is made public, there will be no impeachable crimes.

Democrats will ignore the report and attempt to fabricate crimes. The House will continue investigating obstruction or collusion, or whatever, right up to the General Election on November 3rd, 2020.

They will waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, and come up empty-handed, as usual.

Independents are the largest voting bloc in this country. (Democrats: 31%, Republicans: 24%, Independents: 42%)

They're growing weary of the failed policies of the left. . . . . Independent voters will decide who the next president is.

Trump's chances for re-election look very good in 2020. :usflag2:

Funny, a month ago, the libro leftist, line was You just wait, when we get the results of the Mueller report, Trump will be gone. Now it's you just wait. We'll do our own investigation. And people like Calamity are saying we need to impeach to find out if we can impeach. Or we need the tax returns to find out if there is anything to justify our impeaching to see if we can impeach to get the taxes.

Sounds a lot like a circular argument.

 

[Xelor]

I agree that impeachment and removal of Trump is warranted; hell, it was warranted the instant he completed his oath of office.

I have my doubts about it being, at this point in Trump's first term politically or jurisprudentially sagacious because

• If he's impeached and removed, Pence is all but certain to pardon him.
• If he's impeached and not removed, which is the most likely outcome, he'll be a martyr, of sorts, unless perhaps all the Senate trial discloses all the gory details of his deeds, which I don't see happening.
• A Senate impeachment trial is a political thing, not a jurisprudential thing. The majority party, not the rule of law and not precedent, controls everything about how the proceedings transpire, including rules of evidence, inquiry times, what witnesses to call, whether and to what extent witnesses can be compelled to directly answer questions, etc.

So at this point, short of an incontrovertible "smoking gun" manifesting, there's little to be gained from impeachment hearings and a subsequent trial. And frankly, given all Trump's "water" Republicans have carried thus far, I'm not confident enough Senate GOP-ers would vote to convict Trump were there such a "smoking gun." I think even if Trump just woke and walked onto 5th Ave. and started randomly shooting people, GOP-ers would find a way to justify it.

This is exact how the impeachers have felt all along, and the very reason Pelosi is against it. She knows that stupid **** like this almost never works.

Red:
???

• What "this" is the "very reason Pelosi is against [impeaching Trump]?" You highlighted the independent clause "it was warranted the instant he completed his oath of office" and asserted that clause is the reason Pelosi opposes impeachment.
  
  No one, other perhaps than you, "is against" impeaching Trump because doing so is, in his/her mind, warranted.

​

 

[Moderate Right]

IMO, impeachment is warranted. It will also enable Congress to get their hands on all the evidence they need to build a case. Also, we know the R would be impeaching a D president right now, for less than a quarter of what Trump has done.

So, one has to ask. Would impeachment be a popular position to take? Are the American people going to turn on the impeachers or will they side with them and clamor for Trump's removal?

Can you see how out of touch with reality you really are?

 

[Waddy]

Impeach Trump. Fire up his base even more. That's a great strategy. And then nominate some has been or looney toon as the candidate. Should work out well.