In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide

[TU Curmudgeon]

Like I've said, the Vatican need not have to take everyone......but at least, take some.
Fill up the space that can be filled - guests end up even in our living rooms when we have to, what more when it's a situation like those boatload of refugees off the coast of Italy.......which is practically in his own backyard!

Like I've said.....you see what you wanna see.

Trump is the nation's leader. He can make decisions that he sees fit.
Trump, as part of his position, can exert his executive powers, which can also be challenged in court.
They're practicing the political process (law), of their land.

You're missing the point:

The pope has to denounce abortion and contraception (as any Christian leader should)......... as murder and fornication are denounced by the Scriptures!

The Bible never denounced building a wall. Verses were given about boundaries.
The Scriptures' teachings about refugees and foreigners (even the beatitudes), are being taken out of context.

One problem with "The Vatican" taking in refugees traces back to the original design of "The Vatican". When Pope Julius II was first shown the complete blueprints for the reconstruction, his comment was "Sunt enim omnes Angeli?" (Are we all Angels?) due to the fact that the architects had neglected to include ANY "sanitary facilities" in the building.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Isn't Vatican city surrounded by high "walls"?

Yep. And not only that, but at the time that they were built to deter actual armies of actual countries that were actually threatening to invade and conquer "The Vatican" they were "state of the art" defences.

Just when do you expect the Mexican army to actually attempt to invade and conquer the United States of America?

Are walls currently "state of the art" defences against actual attempts by actual armies of actual countries to actually invade and conquer the United States of America?

 

[exoplanet]

The Bible never denounced building a wall. Verses were given about boundaries.
The Scriptures' teachings about refugees and foreigners (even the beatitudes), are being taken out of context.

You're still looking for literal walls in the Bible when the Pope is talking about metaphorical ones. I know it might be confusing because Trump is building a literal wall, but you don't think the Pope is advocating building literal bridges out of concrete and steel, do you?

 

[JMR]

Just so to be clear.....anything posted in the forum can be responded to by any other posters.

If a poster wishes to interact only with a particular poster, I think the PM system can be used for that.
Anything posted in this public domain, is fair game for all members. After all, this is a forum board.
At least, that's how I understand it.

All's fair. Obviously you are content with her response to the conversation.

 

[JMR]

You're still looking for literal walls in the Bible when the Pope is talking about metaphorical ones. I know it might be confusing because Trump is building a literal wall, but you don't think the Pope is advocating building literal bridges out of concrete and steel, do you?

I think it's fairly obvious that the Pope is correct in his statement that builders of walls divide....our would be builder has split the nation rather effectively over the building of a wall.

 

[Bullseye]

I think it's fairly obvious that the Pope is correct in his statement that builders of walls divide....our would be builder has split the nation rather effectively over the building of a wall.

I think Trump's is a littler shorter than the wall around the Vatican City.

 

[trixare4kids]

I think Trump's is a littler shorter than the wall around the Vatican City.

:lol:

 

[trixare4kids]

Just so to be clear.....anything posted in the forum can be responded to by any other posters.

If a poster wishes to interact only with a particular poster, I think the PM system can be used for that.
Anything posted in this public domain, is fair game for all members. After all, this is a forum board.
At least, that's how I understand it.

You're right and mucho thanks for speaking up.
That poster is notorious for the use of the red herring logic fallacy. .

Oh, and the eyeball rolls; emojis
:lol:

 

[CharisRose]

Like my new sigline, my friend?

Yes I do.

Sadly, His name is invoked and Bible verses are used that are clearly taken out of context in order to make a point in favor of their argument.

But, anyone who studies and understands the Bible clearly can see the flaws in those arguments.

Thus, the WWJD? argument is rendered flawed.

Out of context - Without the surrounding words or circumstances and so not fully understandable.

https://www.stewardship.com/articles/3-most-misunderstood-bible-verses-on-money

Article provides 3 examples.

Roseann

 

[tosca1]

You're still looking for literal walls in the Bible when the Pope is talking about metaphorical ones. I know it might be confusing because Trump is building a literal wall, but you don't think the Pope is advocating building literal bridges out of concrete and steel, do you?

Well, even with metaphorical ones, what you say doesn't hold!

Trump never said he wasn't going to let in refugees and immigrants at all, nor did he say
he wasn't going to provide support or aid to anyone - with or without a physical wall!
With or without a physical bridge either!

Talk about trying to build metaphorical bridges: Look at North Korea! Look at Russia!
Aren't these two supposedly the greatest nemesis of the USA?

Yeah, they're both human rights violators. But how can you have any influence, or even discuss matters if you don't extend an "olive branch" first? If you don't build a "metaphorical bridge," how can one expect to ever reach out and have these so-called dialogues?

 

[tosca1]

You're right and mucho thanks for speaking up.
That poster is notorious for the use of the red herring logic fallacy. .

Oh, and the eyeball rolls; emojis
:lol:

Hrrrrm........I'm notorious for emojis........:mrgreen:

 

[yankintx]

Isn't Vatican city surrounded by high "walls"?

Parts of it our, parts our not. Perhaps they can finish the job when Mexico writes the check.

 

[jmotivator]

Having been to the Vatican City, I'd say Frank doesn't have a lot of room to talk.

I'm a Catholic, and even I think this Pope needs a dose of self awareness.

 

[trixare4kids]

I'm a Catholic, and even I think this Pope needs a dose of self awareness.

Thank you!

 

[americanwoman]

Trump has talked about a lot of things. He can't seem to differentiate between a wall and a fence, settle on how high it's going to be, etc... He could tweet tomorrow morning and change it again. You can pick a quote and believe what you want to believe. That's how Trump works. However, the symbolism and the rationale doesn't change. It's not and has never been about effective border security.

His tweet this morning is leaning towards WALLS now. Until tomorrow when it'll be a "barrier". :lol:

Donald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTrump

Lets just call them WALLS from now on and stop playing political games! A WALL is a WALL!

4:16 AM - 31 Jan 2019

 

[Mach]

I'm a Catholic, and even I think this Pope needs a dose of self awareness.

Oh good lord. Now even the Pope.
DOJ, FBI, all the U.S. intelligence agencies, federal prosecutors around country, 80% of all mainstream media, all Democrats, all former Trump confidants who are now pleading guilty, former generals who left and bad-mouthed Trump, Basically every single ****ing human on earth, other than whoever Trump wants to you believe at the moment...needs to be questioned as to they oppose Trump?

How about the infinitely more simple "Trump's a problem".

 

[haymarket]

Oh good lord. Now even the Pope.
DOJ, FBI, all the U.S. intelligence agencies, federal prosecutors around country, 80% of all mainstream media, all Democrats, all former Trump confidants who are now pleading guilty, former generals who left and bad-mouthed Trump, Basically every single ****ing human on earth, other than whoever Trump wants to you believe at the moment...needs to be questioned as to they oppose Trump?

How about the infinitely more simple "Trump's a problem".

I remember the tune in SOUND OF MUSIC "What Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria?". Seems like they should do a revival of that play but change it to a reference to Trump. In fact, they could change the Nazi's to Trumpkins and it might be a real hit.

 

[jmotivator]

Oh good lord. Now even the Pope.
DOJ, FBI, all the U.S. intelligence agencies, federal prosecutors around country, 80% of all mainstream media, all Democrats, all former Trump confidants who are now pleading guilty, former generals who left and bad-mouthed Trump, Basically every single ****ing human on earth, other than whoever Trump wants to you believe at the moment...needs to be questioned as to they oppose Trump?

How about the infinitely more simple "Trump's a problem".

Vatican city sits behind a wall with armed guards. It isn't radical to point out the hypocrisy in the Pope's comments.

Your TDS is a poor substitute for an argument.

 

[Mach]

Vatican city sits behind a wall with armed guards. It isn't radical to point out the hypocrisy in the Pope's comments.
Your TDS is a poor substitute for an argument.

Trumps wall, a memory device established by his admittedly white nationalist swampy handlers to help him ramble on about immigration and fear, etc....
The Wall he failed to get funded when Republicans had the House/Senate.
The Wall he shut down government for a month over, only to lose the first round To Nancy Pelosi, re-opening government with no wall, and a "promise to negotiate".

...This wall is not a bad symbol for the U.S to be leading with...

Because the Pope is a hypocrite? Poor Trump supporters, reduced to false equivalence, cries of hypocrisy, and general gymnastics to prop up a failed, Russian-owned president.

 

[mrdeltoid]

I don't have a problem with border fencing where appropriate and effective, but the determination to basically just build a big wall across the entire border is just wasteful. It's a symbolic issue that Trump picked as an effective way to rile up his base and exacerbate xenophobia.

Do you think he lost that voting block (people that feel border security is important) when he said he would agree to different types of barriers where they are needed? I think that there is a problem with border security, and we need barriers in large gaps that are difficult to defend, tech upgrades and more personnel , along with more resources to afford people the opportunity to immigrate legally. What do you think?

 

[exoplanet]

Well, even with metaphorical ones, what you say doesn't hold!

Trump never said he wasn't going to let in refugees and immigrants at all, nor did he say
he wasn't going to provide support or aid to anyone - with or without a physical wall!
With or without a physical bridge either!

Talk about trying to build metaphorical bridges: Look at North Korea! Look at Russia!
Aren't these two supposedly the greatest nemesis of the USA?

Yeah, they're both human rights violators. But how can you have any influence, or even discuss matters if you don't extend an "olive branch" first? If you don't build a "metaphorical bridge," how can one expect to ever reach out and have these so-called dialogues?

It's not what I've said, it's what the Pope said. I don't expect you or anyone to agree with him, but it seems clear to me that he is talking about the sorts of things that I would expect any Pope to talk about. This bit just happens to annoy conservatives.

 

[exoplanet]

Do you think he lost that voting block (people that feel border security is important) when he said he would agree to different types of barriers where they are needed?

No, I bet those are just policy details to most of them. Trump's messaging is still about "the wall" even if it isn't actually a wall. All of this talk about a national emergency and sending troops to the border is what they pay attention to.

I think that there is a problem with border security, and we need barriers in large gaps that are difficult to defend, tech upgrades and more personnel , along with more resources to afford people the opportunity to immigrate legally. What do you think?

All of those sound like they could be reasonable ideas in principle. The devil is in the details though. How much will it cost? How many people will lose their land to the government? etc...

 

[stevecanuck]

I will never understand why it's considered by some to be immoral, wrong, and/or racist to want to control your own borders.

 

[tosca1]

It's not what I've said, it's what the Pope said. I don't expect you or anyone to agree with him, but it seems clear to me that he is talking about the sorts of things that I would expect any Pope to talk about. This bit just happens to annoy conservatives.

You were the one going on and on and on......about the metaphorical wall!

I wouldn't speculate that every pope will put his foot in his mouth like this one did. Lol.

Of course it annoys conservatives - Christian conservatives!
This pope is tackless (and a proven hypocrite - if, we go by the Scriptures, as shown).

 

[trixare4kids]

I will never understand why it's considered by some to be immoral, wrong, and/or racist to want to control your own borders.

You don't really believe the present congressional wall critics think securing the borders is really immoral, wrong, racist, do you?
Their present views are entrenched in partisan hoopla and not giving Trump the win.
Remember, these are some of the same Democrats who voted for a 700 mile border fence in 2013.

http://https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/2013-all-senate-dems-voted-to-build-border-fence-kill-visa-lottery-end-chain-migration