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In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide

JMR said:
I hear the Evangelicals never mix politics with religion. :roll:
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Maybe you should go tell the Evangelicals what you heard. :roll:
 
JMR said:
You are aware that Pope Francis did refuse the papal apartments, for more modest living quarters? You might not be, but it seems posters who claim to be RC would have known that.

His Holiness does not preside over Italy, but rather over the Catholic Church, and the members of that church who live in America, and many other places. The Pope (past and present) lectures Americans on many topics, including reproduction, marriage, female equality, or lack of it. Have you been offended by those lectures in the past? Or is it just a wall thing?

It has been ironic these past six years to see how many "Catholics" actually have a problem with the tenets of their faith.
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If you going to lecture Christians about the tenets of their faith, time for you to learn that the tenets of faith remain regardless of which Christian church they attend.
Heck, many don't even attend a proper church and the tenets of faith are not lost...
The tenets of faith include: Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ. The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.

Amen!
 
exoplanet said:
I don't have a problem with border fencing where appropriate and effective, but the determination to basically just build a big wall across the entire border is just wasteful. It's a symbolic issue that Trump picked as an effective way to rile up his base and exacerbate xenophobia.
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You need to do a little up date.. the wall is not to span the entire border. Trump said it would cover the areas of most concern as defined by the border patrol itself, plus there are vast areas that does not require to be walled because the landscape is itself forms a barrier.
 
Sabre said:
You need to do a little up date.. the wall is not to span the entire border. Trump said it would cover the areas of most concern as defined by the border patrol itself, plus there are vast areas that does not require to be walled because the landscape is itself forms a barrier.
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Trump has talked about a lot of things. He can't seem to differentiate between a wall and a fence, settle on how high it's going to be, etc... He could tweet tomorrow morning and change it again. You can pick a quote and believe what you want to believe. That's how Trump works. However, the symbolism and the rationale doesn't change. It's not and has never been about effective border security.
 
tosca1 said:
Anyway.....I'm curious. Can anyone cite.

Is there anything in the Bible that says you should not stop immigrants from coming in?


All the verses I'd read so far only talks about the foreigner or stranger who's already living with the Jews.

In fact, several verses give that distinction. "The foreigner residing among you."



But....."boundaries" are mentioned in the Bible. Like these ones:

Deut 19
"You shall not move your neighbor's boundary mark, which the ancestors have set, in your inheritance which you will inherit in the land that the LORD your God gives you to possess.



Acts 17:26
and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,


Joshua 22:25
"For the LORD has made the Jordan a border between us and you, you sons of Reuben and sons of Gad; you have no portion in the LORD." So your sons may make our sons stop fearing the LORD.'


Hosea 5:10
The princes of Judah have become like those who move a boundary; On them I will pour out My wrath like water.
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He does talk about bringing down the walls of Jerhico...
 
trixare4kids said:
If you going to lecture Christians about the tenets of their faith, time for you to learn that the tenets of faith remain regardless of which Christian church they attend.
Heck, many don't even attend a proper church and the tenets of faith are not lost...
The tenets of faith include: Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ. The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.

Amen!
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How kind of you to jump in on a post to another member!

You can rest assured you are not high on my source list for credible statements on religion. I have equal access to Wikipedia...which it is odd you would quote verbatim,
The creed was apparently used as a summary of Christian doctrine for baptismal candidates in the churches of Rome.[97]

Its main points include:[citation needed]

Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit
The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ
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.... in your attempt to be so knowledgeable.

It is ironic that once a Pope arrived on the scene willing to further the idea of charity and caring for all humanity, many so called Catholics took to the hills. Don't trip on your way to your salvation. Amen!
 
exoplanet said:
Welp, feel free to press the Vatican to accept more refugees. Given the size of the Vatican, I doubt it would make much of a difference in the world's refugee situation, or in your opinions.
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Like I've said, the Vatican need not have to take everyone......but at least, take some.
Fill up the space that can be filled - guests end up even in our living rooms when we have to, what more when it's a situation like those boatload of refugees off the coast of Italy.......which is practically in his own backyard!




Physician heal thyself. Overt xenophobia from the POTUS is the one of the last things I want to see.

Trump's self described "Muslim ban" is not a law passed by Congress, it's Trump's xenophobia in action. He is actively limiting what the "proper channel" is.

The Pope was not being any more partisan than any time he denounces abortion or contraception. Whether you disagree or have issues with the Roman Catholic Church, an important part of his job is to take moral stands.
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Like I've said.....you see what you wanna see.

Trump is the nation's leader. He can make decisions that he sees fit.
Trump, as part of his position, can exert his executive powers, which can also be challenged in court.
They're practicing the political process (law), of their land.



You're missing the point:

The pope has to denounce abortion and contraception (as any Christian leader should)......... as murder and fornication are denounced by the Scriptures!

The Bible never denounced building a wall. Verses were given about boundaries.
The Scriptures' teachings about refugees and foreigners (even the beatitudes), are being taken out of context.
 
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JMR said:
How kind of you to jump in on a post to another member!
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Just so to be clear.....anything posted in the forum can be responded to by any other posters.

If a poster wishes to interact only with a particular poster, I think the PM system can be used for that.
Anything posted in this public domain, is fair game for all members. After all, this is a forum board.
At least, that's how I understand it.
 
ClaraD said:
He does talk about bringing down the walls of Jerhico...
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Good thing you mentioned that. Jericho was punished for a reason.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1382.cfm


Btw, how the walls of Jericho was brought down, was an act of God.
No one bombed it. No one used ladders to scale it. It was brought down by a miracle.



Why do you think they brought down the walls of Jericho?

Wasn't it an act of war?

To besiege and destroy Jericho?
Annihilating all citizens therein..... except for Rahab and her family?




Why do you think Trump sees the caravan who wants to get in by hook or by crook, as an "invasion?"
A matter of national security?


Without God, do you think Jericho would've easily fallen?

So.......Jericho shows, you need a wall! :mrgreen:

Unless of course, your opponent is helped by God (like the Jews were helped to destroy Jericho),
the wall is one major way of protecting your borders - and all your citizens!
 
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exoplanet said:
I don't have a problem with border fencing where appropriate and effective, but the determination to basically just build a big wall across the entire border is just wasteful. It's a symbolic issue that Trump picked as an effective way to rile up his base and exacerbate xenophobia.
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I'll agree with that. He seems to have changed from that position to what you and I are talking about. In the mean time, we are stuck in the middle of a petty word game. They are more concerned with scoring political points, than what is actually the best way to secure the border, and update an outdated immigration system. One of the things we need to do, is to make legal citizenship less cumbersome and more timely. I don't thing it takes 10 years to find out if somebody would be a decent citizen.
 
tosca1 said:
Good thing you mentioned that. Jericho was punished for a reason.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1382.cfm


Btw, how the walls of Jericho was brought down, was an act of God.
No one bombed it. No one used ladders to scale it. It was brought down by a miracle.



Why do you think they brought down the walls of Jericho?

Wasn't it an act of war?

To besiege and destroy Jericho?
Annihilating all citizens therein..... except for Rahab and her family?




Why do you think Trump sees the caravan who wants to get in by hook or by crook, as an "invasion?"
A matter of national security?


Without God, do you think Jericho would've easily fallen?

So.......Jericho shows, you need a wall! :mrgreen:

Unless of course, your opponent is helped by God (like the Jews were helped to destroy Jericho),
the wall is one major way of protecting your borders - and all your citizens!
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so we cannot be punished? Really?
 
oops quote was missing.
 
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trixare4kids said:
If you going to lecture Christians about the tenets of their faith, time for you to learn that the tenets of faith remain regardless of which Christian church they attend.
Heck, many don't even attend a proper church and the tenets of faith are not lost...
The tenets of faith include: Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ. The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.

Amen!
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Amen!

Roseann:)
 
Joecool44 said:
Isn't Vatican city surrounded by high "walls"?
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Why, yes it is. As is Obama's home, Schumers home and Nancy Pelosi's NAPA Valley estate. Walls aren't a 100% deterrent, but they do a pretty good job. Just ask any prison inmate.
 
"Down With The Pope!" - Evangelicals, and catholic Trump supporters

in 3....2.....1.....
 
I am a former practicing RC who left the church because this pope can't seem to keep his divisive politics to himself.
How dare this pope talk about the father of lies, the devil, who the church has protected for decades by turning the blind eye to child molestation and pedophilia.
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I'm sure the Catholic Church won't miss your weekly donation of three dollars.
 
No matter the comments from anyone this wall will be constructed. The days are flying by and soon time will run out. No thanks to the liberal/Demos the government shutdown sequel will happen. Our President Trump will have no other choice but to declare the emergency and I hope he does it right away.
As for the Pope ?
His comments ?
They are just that.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL "Frank" did not build those walls did he.
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Many people "just happen to" overlook the fact that the walls around Vatican City were built to ward off actual armies of actual countries that were actually threatening to actually invade and conquer Vatican City AND that they were, at the time they were built, actually one of the most effective means of deterring actual armies of actual countries from actually invading and conquering Vatican City.

At present I think that "The Wall" as actually proposed (regardless of what Mr. Trump calls his 1,000+ mile long solid concrete structure) is a ludicrous idea.

HOWEVER, the minute that Mr. Trump produces the actual evidence that Mexico actually intends to use actual armies to actually invade and conquer the United States of America AND that "The Wall" is an effective means of deterring Mexico from actually using actual armies to actually invade and conquer the United States of America I will change my position in a flash.

Wouldn't you?
 
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