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If Trump is Removed From Office for Any Reason Other Than Russia Collusion? It WAS a Witch Hunt!

Derp said:
The FBI to investigate every Congress Critter in the same manner and see where the chips fall.
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Greetings, Derp. :2wave:

Best suggestion I have heard in a long time! :thumbs:
 
OlNate said:
That's a pretty important distinction...but that should have happened a long time ago. Trump is just a culmination of all that's been ****ty with your political scene for decades.
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People who electd rob ford should not throw stones

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
MovingPictures said:
If he wants his lawyers present then he should agree voluntarily to an interview, otherwise he will be subjected to a grand jury subpoena, where he will be on his own and open to any and all questions of the grand jury.

He must specify whether he is invoking the fifth or not, he doesn't get to play games.
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you keep saying this....

HE IS NEVER GETTING IN FRONT OF A GRAND JURY

HE IS NEVER GOING TO BE INTERVIEWED BY MUELLER WHERE PROCESS CRIMES COULD CONVEY

do you understand those two concepts...NEVER

Mueller will have to make his case without Trump

There will be no chance of a process crime...no perjury case...no Clintonesqe type ****up
 
Lutherf said:
Come on and face the facts. Trump is a Russian spy who, with the aid of the NRA, paid a British company to spy on Americans through Facebook while simultaneously cutting a deal with Wikileaks to discredit Hillary Clinton who actually won the election except that the FBI was corrupted by Trump's money laundering accomplices. Then, when nobody was looking, he peed on Stormy Daniels.
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Best response of the entire thread by far.
:lamo
 
trouble13 said:
People who electd rob ford should not throw stones

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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lol...this is an interesting statement, Troub... ;) You wanna expand? It's a little cryptic.

For what it's worth, I wasn't someone who elected him. But his rise was very similar to Trump. Rather than #DrainTheSwamp, it was #StopTheGravyTrain. And Rob Ford got some stuff done, too... Then he went crazy. The difference was that Rob Ford was a councilman for a good decade before he became mayor...so he had a bit of experience to back up his mouth. But, yup, he was a populist, and yup, it ended in disaster.

Now his brother Doug is campaigning to become the leader of the Conservatives at the provincial level in Ontario. He's already acting like a lunatic on Twitter...guess he figures if it works for Trump...

So, ya, not saying we're without problems up here...so far we've managed to keep it at the mayor level, though, we haven't made the biggest jackass in our country the Prime Minister (though I'm sure there are some Canadian Trump enthusiasts that would disagree - I would say NDP supporters as well, but thankfully Scheer should still draw more ire than Trudeau). ;)
 
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Beaudreaux said:
You make, as usual, very good points. For me, it would depend on the crime, and how it was uncovered. If Mueller and his band of investigators uncovered the evidence then it's a serious problem for me, since that level of scrutiny is (IMHO) beyond his scope of authority. If, using your example, Stormy Daniels attorney is able to uncover wrong doing during his depositions or from his extensive investigation, then that is a whore (I mean horse) of a different color and I would look at that differently.

Although, even though I thoroughly agree that I wouldn't want a felon-level criminal running the country, we already have had that with a number of Presidents, like Nixon and Clinton just to name two.

However, I'm torn as well. Where I agree with you as stated above, I am also deeply concerned with setting the precedence of impeaching and removing a President from Office over events that have nothing to do with his/her election or duties as President. What Nixon did was definitely related to his office as President. The precedence was unfortunately set to drag the POTUS through his/her past when the Republicans tried to drag the Clintons through Whitewater, and all the other non-Presidential events taken by the Clintons. The Democrats are no better with what they are trying to do now.
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I agree 100%! :thumbs:

And here's why: By removing a sitting president due to previous non-election events, we are in effect doing voter nullification! And that's a very scary thing!

But I'll muddy the waters even further: What if, as we are speaking of now, some extremely heinous & grievous unknown crime comes to light, of which the the body politic was not aware? This is quite the situation! And for this reason, it is right and just in my mind that impeachment is indeed a political process, as unintuitive as that may seem to some of us that believe strongly in the rule of law. In effect, by the people's representatives (i.e. Congress) removing said President, they are ostensibly reflecting the will of the people.

If this continues, then we will have an almost impossible time getting anyone to run for high office if their entire past is open to political re-evaluation and FBI investigation. No one is perfectly clean.
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Agreed. All men are flawed, including those we chose to lead us.

But I will say this: While I definitely don't want the political weaponization of our legal system, there is a part of me that's happy seeing our top government echelons under scrutiny. I'm a bit old fashioned in that I believe our President and high leaders should set an example for the country, and in effect a component of their leadership should be by example. In other words, I do hold them to higher standards than the guy down the block. But this may be my idealism or a bit naivete showing through ...
 
Nap said:
He can't fire him personally, but there is a clear path that if he wanted him fired bad enough it could be done rather easily. I understand that he can't fire him personally, however it would not be difficult for him to have him fired so by proxy he does have the power to fire him.
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Fair enough, and I'll try not to beleaguer the discussion too far.

But in technical terms, he still doesn't have that right. Everyone in succession can refuse his request, until there's no one left. So perhaps someone may eventually be found to do his proxy work - or not. They may all refuse. We simply don't know. But we do know he cannot do it himself. So I'm sticking with my original claims.
 
MovingPictures said:
When it comes to tax returns and financial records, they can get their hands on pretty much anything. If something is found in Trump's records or any emolument violations are discovered, they can not only impeach, but also send legal referrals to both local US attorneys offices, as well state AG's for offenses that are more state matters.

That's the power that's up for grabs come November, lets not blow it people.
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That's a good point, that I too thought of putting in my post. But I wasn't even thinking of emoluments! There's likely a ton of Trump Administration conflict here, but our posited Dem investigations will be predicated by the political will of the People. If they go too far, they too may face political backlash.

But speaking of possible emoluments & corruption, I would really like to know where the Kushner's got their $1.2B to bail-out their 666 building in NYC. They were on the edge of losing it with time nearly run out, and then - bingo - they got a loan. It strikes me as suspicious. Wanna' bet Mueller's examining this?
 
Superfly said:
I hope you are right, but I have to even question November. I am. It has already been made clear that the election will be tampered with in November, and the Republicans won't do anything to stop it (and why would they? Tampering by Russia keeps them in power) and if that's the case, this "blue wave" that could very realistically happen in November, just won't. They'll cheat to win, and we will be stuck. Just like we are now.
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Well I can't help but feel with all the attention on voter manipulation and fraud currently, that it will be harder to do. Though Trump's lack of a top-down effort to safeguard our elections has really got me pissed!
 
OlNate said:
lol...this is an interesting statement, Troub... ;) You wanna expand? It's a little cryptic.

For what it's worth, I wasn't someone who elected him. But his rise was very similar to Trump. Rather than #DrainTheSwamp, it was #StopTheGravyTrain. And Rob Ford got some stuff done, too... Then he went crazy. The difference was that Rob Ford was a councilman for a good decade before he became mayor...so he had a bit of experience to back up his mouth. But, yup, he was a populist, and yup, it ended in disaster.

Now his brother Doug is campaigning to become the leader of the Conservatives at the provincial level in Ontario. He's already acting like a lunatic on Twitter...guess he figures if it works for Trump...

So, ya, not saying we're without problems up here...so far we've managed to keep it at the mayor level, though, we haven't made the biggest jackass in our country the Prime Minister (though I'm sure there are some Canadian Trump enthusiasts that would disagree - I would say NDP supporters as well, but thankfully Scheer should still draw more ire than Trudeau). ;)
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I was busting your chops more than anything. I actually like the honesty they both injected into politics. It makes them easy targets but I like that they don't hide who they are and I respect voters who cast their votes for either of them.

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Superfly said:
Meh, my faith in our system of government has been completely erased since November of 2016. You are just late to the party.
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the system was fine in 2016 and worked exactly the way it should have.
your sore loser attitude is the issue not the system.
 
trouble13 said:
I was busting your chops more than anything. I actually like the honesty they both injected into politics. It makes them easy targets but I like that they don't hide who they are and I respect voters who cast their votes for either of them.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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hehe...the crack and crazy alcoholism part was kind of a downer though....lol.... though preferable to porn stars and WW3, I guess... haha ;)
 
gulfman said:
Yes he can be forced out.Even if he didn't commit any crimes.As long as the Democrats think he did that's enough.If Trump isnt impeached he should change party to Democrat in 2020.
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No that is not how the method of impeachment works. thinking someone committed a crime is not enough.
there has to be actual evidence and proof that a crime was convicted.

Liberals still have to follow the constitution.
they do not get to make up evidence.
 
Captain Adverse said:
<BS snipped>
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(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. s. 600.4(a).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html



28 C.F.R. s. 600.4(a): Jurisdiction also includes "the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted."

28. C.F.R. s. 600.6: Special counsel has "within the scope of his or her jurisdiction, the full power and independent authority to exercise all investigative and prosecutorial functions of any United States Attorney."





Crow all you like. You don't get to rewrite the appointing letter nor the CFR, both of which define the scope of Mueller's investigation.

:shrug:
 
I don’t think it is a witch hunt as far as the FBI is concerned. Mueller is just following the mandate he was appointed to carry out and anyone can read the letter for themselves stating what that mandate is.

Now, a significant percentage of the population certainly has a witch hunt mentality with regard to the investigation. They WANT Mueller to find something, anything, that will lead to Trump being kicked out. It isn’t about justice to them, it is about getting rid of a President they don’t like. But that crowd is always present when politicians are investigated for anything. Granted, the crowd is much larger with Trump.
 
I think is important to remember how the Special Counsel came about.


 
ludin said:
the system was fine in 2016 and worked exactly the way it should have.
your sore loser attitude is the issue not the system.
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Yeah it was great if you were a Trump fan. Oh, or Russian. The rest of the country? The real Republicans? The Independents? The Dems? The Libertarians? etc etc etc - didn't work out so well for them. Or for the elderly, or for immigrants or DACA kids, or for any kids for that matter, or for the working poor, etc.

But that's OK. We certainly know who to point at and laugh during this **** storm. You guys aren't even trying to hide from what has happened to the country. You feed on everybody's misery. :lol: Pretty soon, though - we can feed on yours.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I don’t think it is a witch hunt as far as the FBI is concerned. Mueller is just following the mandate he was appointed to carry out and anyone can read the letter for themselves stating what that mandate is.

Now, a significant percentage of the population certainly has a witch hunt mentality with regard to the investigation. They WANT Mueller to find something, anything, that will lead to Trump being kicked out. It isn’t about justice to them, it is about getting rid of a President they don’t like. But that crowd is always present when politicians are investigated for anything. Granted, the crowd is much larger with Trump.
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I think with Mueller, a Republican himself by the way, you will end up getting the truth and that is all anyone could ask for.
 
Beaudreaux said:
You make, as usual, very good points. For me, it would depend on the crime, and how it was uncovered. If Mueller and his band of investigators uncovered the evidence then it's a serious problem for me, since that level of scrutiny is (IMHO) beyond his scope of authority. If, using your example, Stormy Daniels attorney is able to uncover wrong doing during his depositions or from his extensive investigation, then that is a whore (I mean horse) of a different color and I would look at that differently.

Although, even though I thoroughly agree that I wouldn't want a felon-level criminal running the country, we already have had that with a number of Presidents, like Nixon and Clinton just to name two.

However, I'm torn as well. Where I agree with you as stated above, I am also deeply concerned with setting the precedence of impeaching and removing a President from Office over events that have nothing to do with his/her election or duties as President. What Nixon did was definitely related to his office as President. The precedence was unfortunately set to drag the POTUS through his/her past when the Republicans tried to drag the Clintons through Whitewater, and all the other non-Presidential events taken by the Clintons. The Democrats are no better with what they are trying to do now.

If this continues, then we will have an almost impossible time getting anyone to run for high office if their entire past is open to political re-evaluation and FBI investigation. No one is perfectly clean.
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So if Trump shot and killed someone on 5th avenue you would not consider it to be an impeachable offense? The constitution does not say that the high crimes and misdemeanors have to be one involved in the presidency, it says just high crimes and misdemeanors .
 
Captain Adverse said:
I’ve been watching the rabid attempts to undermine and unseat the President in the MSM and echoed in this Forum in post after post since November 2016.

Yes, ever since the election after the psychic shock of the “upset” victory wore off, there has been a no holds barred, manic effort to find some way, any way to undo the results of that election either via impeachment or resignation.

It started with simple unfitness for office with members of the mental health professions signing petitions declaring him mentally unfit. Then there was a massive deluge of leaks about any and every thing some “current or former member of government” considered “improper” poured in the willing ears of the MSN.

Finally, thanks to the Steele Dossier the “resistance” jelled around Russian election interference which the President must have actively colluded in. Didn’t he publicly ask the Russian to hack her during his campaign? :roll: (No, he actually didn’t, but don’t let facts get in the way of a narrative.)

Either Director Comey was unaware that his agency, the FBI, used it to get a FISA warrant to tap the communications of Carter Page with the intent to investigate Trump, or his unwillingness to inform the President whether or not he was under investigation which resulted in his discharge was an intentional failure to do his duty.

The President rightly lost trust in him and fired him. After that, it’s been obstruction (which it was not) and “collusion, collusion, collusion!” with nothing to actually show it.

As predicted, the witch hunt may have found some kind of information completely unrelated to “Russian interference,” which not being under Mueller’s writ, has been passed off to “local agency” to investigate. This resulted in the Cohen "raid" via possible money laundering or fund misuse from the Stormy Daniels sex scandal.

Now, it’s “Campaign fund misuse” and “money laundering,” or whatever other dirt may have been found that had nothing to do with the original investigation. This is exactly what all those in this Forum and out in public have been hoping for.

Well, if the President is forced from office for any reason other than knowing and willing conspiracy with a foreign power to undermine the election process, then all the Left’s naysaying notwithstanding, it proves this is and always WAS a “Witch Hunt” with the intent to negate the election by any means necessary.

If successful, then my faith in our system of government will be completely erased; since this will demonstrate that mob "justice" is the rule, and "by any means necessary" is the method.
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Boo, hoo, hoo..


Another half baked bleat about how every non Fox news outlet is conspiring against the GREAT MAN, another rambling discourse of lies and exaggerations.

and you didn't even bother to search the next to find and 'expert' opinion...

As usual, you are wrong. It isn't the "MSM, its the entire free world conspiring against him trying to keep the bastard from blowing everything up be someone didn't like his hair.,....if that's really "hair"
 
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