Hope is ending ....

[Nap]

I have always said that unlike my elected officials, I most feared my neighbors because I have heard more than enough to know that none of my rights would be respected if they had control of the system. Donald Trump's contribution is that he tells them that the thoughts that they share in "quiet" corners are right to be shared louder.

I think it is less Donald Trump's contributions and more of the MSM that has taken much of his comments out of context and painted him as pretty much Hitler 2.0.

 

[iguanaman]

I'd have to agree with you Cable.

I don't understand why the left is being so overly dramatic about the election loss. Disappointed, yes. But why all of the excessive, way over the top hyperbole?

I've seen posts which liken the Trump Thank You Tour to the Nazi Nuremberg rally claiming that Trump is a Fascist. That's ridiculous. He's no Fascist.

I've seen posts which show Jews with stars of Davids on their lapel, as if Trump's going to start up extermination camps.

Unfounded claims that Trump's going to pocket millions, and make decisions as president driven by only what will benefit himself. That's unfounded, as Trump's agreed to only accept a salary of $1. Hillary has more of a track record in this regard, the way she conducted a pay to play while SoS, and the Clinton Foundation remains under FBI investigation to that regard.

The biased media has joined in the wailing and gnashing of teeth, seemingly taking every possible opportunity, founded in fact or not (here's your fake news), to bash Trump. It was the same during the Bush administration, but now, it seems all the worse, far more vicious and far less founded in fact. Granted there are legitimate issues, such as Trump's conflict of interest with his business interests, but more often than not, these attacks aren't founded in facts.

Some are of the opinion that this is only the beginning; that the media and the left will escalate the attacks vitriol to even higher unprecedented levels of antagonism and acrimony. All this will only further serve to keep the nation divided, this on going beating of the war drum of theirs. Is this really what they think is best for the nation? I can hardly imagine that this is the case.

Meanwhile, in the real world between the coasts, outside of the beltway reality distortion field and the liberal / progressive echo chamber of the coasts, I sense an uplift, an optimism, one that has been missing for all the years of the Obama administration.

Small business, the greatest job segment of the economy, has this optimism, and appears to promise expansion and hiring in the coming year, something they've been hesitant to do all the years of the Obama administration. And who would blame them with the torrent of productivity sapping regulations imposed on them by Obama and his administration; the possibility of turning some of these regulations back instills this optimism in them.

So while I acknowledge that the left has a right to be downhearted about the election loss, I just don't see any foundation in their claim that 'All Hope is lost', and think that this is just their over dramatic hyperbole.

Your speal reminds me of Jurrassic Park...Dr. Ian Malcolm: Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and um, screaming. If Trump can keep us out of recession or a major terror attack for a few years, I will eat my words. But until then beware..We are dealing with a leader devoid of empathy or even decency and anything can happen.

 

[Moderate Right]

That'll never happen. Liberals are so convinced of their superiority that they will never accept the reality that their agenda has been outright rejected.

But, but, but, Hillary won the popular vote.

 

[Moderate Right]

Ahhhh...racist, eh? Where's the racism? Quote me. I dare you.

Don't you understand? Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is a racist.

 

[apdst]

Don't you understand? Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is a racist.

Oh yeah! I get it. The Liberals said that never happens.

 

[Moderate Right]

I agree with a lot of your post. If Trump screws up, it could really hurt the party.

I am not afraid of being kicked out or rounded up. My issues stem from Trump supporters on a personal level. Many people I know what a Muslim registry and have said so. Even in this thread a poster is supporting a ban on future Muslim immigration.

It's all common Trump supporter stuff. Trump hasn't done anything yet. At this point, I fear his rhetoric and fear what his supporters want him to do.

Aside from that, I have concerns about a resurgent Russia. And I worry America may lose a lot standing, power, and influence internationally.

Did you forget about Crimea and Syria? Russia has already been insurgent. I empathize with your fears of Trump supporters but look at all the violence the left has perpetrated. They seem to think it is justified because they claim Trump instigated their own bad behavior.

 

[eohrnberger]

It upsets me to see people I have known most of my life bombarding my fb feed with Trump support and Islamaphobia. They know good Muslims but they are worried about the other shadowy Muslims out there apparently.

I really don't think they would stand up for my rights if called to do so.

Sometimes it appears like the in thing to do in certain social groups.

I think that might say more about the people who are bombarding your FB feed than the Trump administration.

To date, which steps has Trump taken actually implement such a registry?

Should he try, I don't think he'll get very far, as there'll be significant political resistance even from GOP in congress, let alone the Democrats in congress, and rightfully so from my view.

 

[eohrnberger]

Don't you understand? Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is a racist.

So they keep telling everyone.

Big lie

 

[LessBiased?]

I've discussed Trump with many liberals, including many in my extended family. It seems clear that part of reason for the strong reaction of many liberals to Trump's win is that they hate him on a personal level. They're repulsed by his self-promoting style, his frequent lack of humility (but sometimes he does show humility), his lack of political correctness, etc. Their emotional and visceral reaction is as much or more due to him personally as to his policy orientations. I suspect that some liberals may start to warm up to Trump only if he shows good results as President which can be clearly linked to him, but even then it will be difficult to change their view of him (just as many conservatives will continue to not give Obama credit for having done anything right during his presidency).

BTW, here's a simple litmus test for degree of partisanship: you believe there are two distinct and opposing sides, and you given little or no credit and lots of blame to the other side.

 

[Moderate Right]

I've discussed Trump with many liberals, including many in my extended family. It seems clear that part of reason for the strong reaction of many liberals to Trump's win is that they hate him on a personal level. They're repulsed by his self-promoting style, his frequent lack of humility (but sometimes he does show humility), his lack of political correctness, etc. Their emotional and visceral reaction is as much or more due to him personally as to his policy orientations. I suspect that some liberals may start to warm up to Trump only if he shows good results as President which can be clearly linked to him, but even then it will be difficult to change their view of him (just as many conservatives will continue to not give Obama credit for having done anything right during his presidency).

BTW, here's a simple litmus test for degree of partisanship: you believe there are two distinct and opposing sides, and you given little or no credit and lots of blame to the other side.

In the big picture, liberals were demanding political correctness at every level of civilization and much of the electorate started to think it was just going too far and Trump was very refreshing to them. In my mind, much of political correctness is about lying. Being politically correct meant that you were saying what people were wanting to hear and not being honest about what you were really thinking. People were getting tired of dishonest politicians who only told you what they thought you wanted to hear.

 

[LessBiased?]

In the big picture, liberals were demanding political correctness at every level of civilization and much of the electorate started to think it was just going too far and Trump was very refreshing to them. In my mind, much of political correctness is about lying. Being politically correct meant that you were saying what people were wanting to hear and not being honest about what you were really thinking. People were getting tired of dishonest politicians who only told you what they thought you wanted to hear.

I believe that most people on the left, right, and anywhere else are generally well-intentioned, but I agree that political correctness has generally gone too far. It's nice to be nice, but too much political correctness stifles honest and open communication, which isn't good for our political process and resolving problems, and it also ironically causes its own unique form of intolerance. When politicians acquiesced to political correctness, it made them look superficial and/or phony, so the opportunity was ripe for someone like Trump.

 

[apdst]

I've discussed Trump with many liberals, including many in my extended family. It seems clear that part of reason for the strong reaction of many liberals to Trump's win is that they hate him on a personal level. They're repulsed by his self-promoting style, his frequent lack of humility (but sometimes he does show humility), his lack of political correctness, etc. Their emotional and visceral reaction is as much or more due to him personally as to his policy orientations. I suspect that some liberals may start to warm up to Trump only if he shows good results as President which can be clearly linked to him, but even then it will be difficult to change their view of him (just as many conservatives will continue to not give Obama credit for having done anything right during his presidency).

BTW, here's a simple litmus test for degree of partisanship: you believe there are two distinct and opposing sides, and you given little or no credit and lots of blame to the other side.

It goes back to the Left's certainty of their superiority. Without them, all hope is lost. They're the only ones that can bring about prosperity and anyone that disagrees with their agenda is stupid/a liar/a hater/racist, the list goes on. Personally, I believe their attitude will be their eventual downfall, so I encourage them.

 

[apdst]

Did you forget about Crimea and Syria? Russia has already been insurgent. I empathize with your fears of Trump supporters but look at all the violence the left has perpetrated. They seem to think it is justified because they claim Trump instigated their own bad behavior.

The Left would be going absolutely ape **** if Clinton had won and Right wingers were acting the same way the Liberals are acting.

 

[LessBiased?]

It goes back to the Left's certainty of their superiority. Without them, all hope is lost. They're the only ones that can bring about prosperity and anyone that disagrees with their agenda is stipid/a liar/a hater/racist, the list goes on. Personally, I believe their attitude will be their eventual downfall, so I encourage them.

I don't doubt that many on the left believe that many on the right don't "get it", mainly because they're stupid and/or brainwashed. But could the same be said about the attitude of many on right with regard to the left?

I personally don't like any of the canned ideologies which are asserted so confidently, since I think reality is too complex to be reduced to any of them. IMO, we need to think through the issues as objectively and thoroughly as we can, recognizing that there are varying values, tradeoffs, complex relationships between factors, high levels of uncertainty, unanticipated consequences, etc. Unfortunately, any aspiring politician who looks at it this way, and says so publicly, is unlikely to get many votes, though IMO Trump is closer to this ideal than most other politicians.

 

[joG]

It goes back to the Left's certainty of their superiority. Without them, all hope is lost. They're the only ones that can bring about prosperity and anyone that disagrees with their agenda is stipid/a liar/a hater/racist, the list goes on. Personally, I believe their attitude will be their eventual downfall, so I encourage them.

We are in a relatively mild backlash that is nonetheless quite dangerous, should it gain a self accelerating dynamic. At this point it is hard to say how far the liberal overshoot will be pushed back and unwound. Had the Democrats won and the development continued on its course, the dynamics would have probably become much more explosive and the reaction more harsh.

 

[Born Free]

Michelle O is a self absorbed narcissist

For the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country

Now when her husband's policies failed she says

Hope is gone

I would suggest for the first time in 8 years HOPE is here.

 

[Master PO]

I'd have to agree with you Cable.

I don't understand why the left is being so overly dramatic about the election loss. Disappointed, yes. But why all of the excessive, way over the top hyperbole?

I've seen posts which liken the Trump Thank You Tour to the Nazi Nuremberg rally claiming that Trump is a Fascist. That's ridiculous. He's no Fascist.

I've seen posts which show Jews with stars of Davids on their lapel, as if Trump's going to start up extermination camps.

Unfounded claims that Trump's going to pocket millions, and make decisions as president driven by only what will benefit himself. That's unfounded, as Trump's agreed to only accept a salary of $1. Hillary has more of a track record in this regard, the way she conducted a pay to play while SoS, and the Clinton Foundation remains under FBI investigation to that regard.

The biased media has joined in the wailing and gnashing of teeth, seemingly taking every possible opportunity, founded in fact or not (here's your fake news), to bash Trump. It was the same during the Bush administration, but now, it seems all the worse, far more vicious and far less founded in fact. Granted there are legitimate issues, such as Trump's conflict of interest with his business interests, but more often than not, these attacks aren't founded in facts.

Some are of the opinion that this is only the beginning; that the media and the left will escalate the attacks vitriol to even higher unprecedented levels of antagonism and acrimony. All this will only further serve to keep the nation divided, this on going beating of the war drum of theirs. Is this really what they think is best for the nation? I can hardly imagine that this is the case.

Meanwhile, in the real world between the coasts, outside of the beltway reality distortion field and the liberal / progressive echo chamber of the coasts, I sense an uplift, an optimism, one that has been missing for all the years of the Obama administration.

Small business, the greatest job segment of the economy, has this optimism, and appears to promise expansion and hiring in the coming year, something they've been hesitant to do all the years of the Obama administration. And who would blame them with the torrent of productivity sapping regulations imposed on them by Obama and his administration; the possibility of turning some of these regulations back instills this optimism in them.

So while I acknowledge that the left has a right to be downhearted about the election loss, I just don't see any foundation in their claim that 'All Hope is lost', and think that this is just their over dramatic hyperbole.

i going to give you my take on it.

for many decades now we have had the left wanting to move more and more power away from the states and move towards the federal government making it more national, with that more national government having more powers in our personal lives instead of each state being sovereign and independent and the state governments dealing with the people.

suddenly now the left finds itself with a problem, the federal government which they have actively worked to make more powerful is now in the hands of a person who may threaten all they have worked to do because trump and republicans hold that power in their hands.

they fear the ability of trump to appoint men to the courts who could dismantle all that work they have achieved over those decades, and these men could sit on the courts be for a very long time being an obstacle to those plans.

they fear the lowing of taxes they have used to try to create equality BY law, parts of government could be done away with, a move to restore state powers making them sovereign.

they fear the cutting of funds to their special interest groups by congress, the halt of expansion of new programs for the people.

they are very much afraid because what they believe in could end or be set back for a very long time.

Trump and the republicans DO HAVE have the ability to deal the left a KNOCK-OUT blow, and the left knows it.

so they will spend the next 4 years in a heavy assault attacking Trump if he makes good on his promises followed by the demonization of the republican party if they follow along with Trumps stated goals.

remember that the left before the election was fully secure in the notion they would win the election and have control of the courts and believed the republican party was fading and their party growing.

they are still currently in a state of shock and dismay over their lost and in this state their only hope is to throw the election process and cry fowl.

 

[eohrnberger]

The Left would be going absolutely ape **** if Clinton had won and Right wingers were acting the same way the Liberals are acting.

If the liberals hold Hillary Clinton in such high regard, shouldn't they be following her lead, as portrayed by her public statements?

Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for. And I'm sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
. . . .
But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and a chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. And we don't just respect that, we cherish it.
. . . .
Hillary Clinton Calls for Unity in Concession Speech - NPR

What do I see? Work with Trump. 'must accept this result'. 'Trump is going to be our president'. 'peaceful transfer of power' ...'we cherish it'.

I also see a call for unity in the electorate.

This doesn't appear to be how some / most of the liberals are behaving.

The last debate when Wallace asked the question about accepting the election results. Here's Hillary's response.

“That’s horrifying.”

“That’s not the way our democracy works. We’ve been around 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections and we’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. President Obama said the other day that when you’re whining before the game is even finished it just shows you’re not even up to doing the job. “
Flashback: Clinton Called Not Accepting Election Results 'Horrifying'

Why is it not just as horrifying as the political left isn't accepting the results of the election?
Why is the left's reaction, and continued reaction to Trump's election win not any less a threat to our democracy?

What possible justification does the left have for their behavior?
Because they don't like the election result?

Well, welcome the conservative's position back in '08 and '12, when Obama was elected. The conservatives didn't like these election result either.

Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. That's the facts of live, and that's the facts in politics as well.

 

[apdst]

I don't doubt that many on the left believe that many on the right don't "get it", mainly because they're stupid and/or brainwashed. But could the same be said about the attitude of many on right with regard to the left?

I personally don't like any of the canned ideologies which are asserted so confidently, since I think reality is too complex to be reduced to any of them. IMO, we need to think through the issues as objectively and thoroughly as we can, recognizing that there are varying values, tradeoffs, complex relationships between factors, high levels of uncertainty, unanticipated consequences, etc. Unfortunately, any aspiring politician who looks at it this way, and says so publicly, is unlikely to get many votes, though IMO Trump is closer to this ideal than most other politicians.

Believing in one's ideology is one thing. Calling everyone who disagrees with them names at every turn prove the invalidity of their ideology. Name calling and insults are all they have.

 

[eohrnberger]

i going to give you my take on it.

for many decades now we have had the left wanting to move more and more power away from the states and move towards the federal government making it more national, with that more national government having more powers in our personal lives instead of each state being sovereign and independent and the state governments dealing with the people.

suddenly now the left finds itself with a problem, the federal government which they have actively worked to make more powerful is now in the hands of a person who may threaten all they have worked to do because trump and republicans hold that power in their hands.

they fear the ability of trump to appoint men to the courts who could dismantle all that work they have achieved over those decades, and these men could sit on the courts be for a very long time being an obstacle to those plans.

they fear the lowing of taxes they have used to try to create equality BY law, parts of government could be done away with, a move to restore state powers making them sovereign.

they fear the cutting of funds to their special interest groups by congress, the halt of expansion of new programs for the people.

they are very much afraid because what they believe in could end or be set back for a very long time.

Trump and the republicans DO HAVE have the ability to deal the left a KNOCK-OUT blow, and the left knows it.

so they will spend the next 4 years in a heavy assault attacking Trump if he makes good on his promises followed by the demonization of the republican party if they follow along with Trumps stated goals.

remember that the left before the election was fully secure in the notion they would win the election and have control of the courts and believed the republican party was fading and their party growing.

they are still currently in a state of shock and dismay over their lost and in this state their only hope is to throw the election process and cry fowl.

A fair take on matters it would seem.

It occurs to me that transferring the power from the federal government to the states isn't all that bad a thing to do. Seems the states, more often than not, do a better job of managing things than the federal government.

Would you say it is pretty clear that this change in the focus of power between the feds and the states is the change that the electorate was looking for? It seems that to me.

Given this graph:

http://politistick.com/stunning-graph-shows-wrecking-ball-obama-taken-democrat-party/

Seems that the left end of the Democratic party is the part that's dragging the rest of the Democratic party to obscurity. If you listen to what the left end is saying, they are unsatisfied with how far left Obama was, and want to drag the rest of the party even further left. Surely the center part of the party is either going to wrestle control from the left, or become a new version of 'Regan Democrats'. If the center of the party doesn't, I only see the above trend lines continuing down.

As express in another post, I do with the Democrats regain their center-left footing, rather than continue careening off into the left obscurity (AKA left out), as I don't believe it's best for the nation to have one major party and a minor one; too many opportunities for those in the major party to conduct and inflict their stupidity on the electorate. There needs to be a strong opposition party to keep them honest and reasonable. At least that's how it's supposed to work in theory, right?

 

[Master PO]

A fair take on matters it would seem.

It occurs to me that transferring the power from the federal government to the states isn't all that bad a thing to do. Seems the states, more often than not, do a better job of managing things than the federal government.

Would you say it is pretty clear that this change in the focus of power between the feds and the states is the change that the electorate was looking for? It seems that to me.

Given this graph:


Seems that the left end of the Democratic party is the part that's dragging the rest of the Democratic party to obscurity. If you listen to what the left end is saying, they are unsatisfied with how far left Obama was, and want to drag the rest of the party even further left. Surely the center part of the party is either going to wrestle control from the left, or become a new version of 'Regan Democrats'. If the center of the party doesn't, I only see the above trend lines continuing down.

As express in another post, I do with the Democrats regain their center-left footing, rather than continue careening off into the left obscurity (AKA left out), as I don't believe it's best for the nation to have one major party and a minor one; too many opportunities for those in the major party to conduct and inflict their stupidity on the electorate. There needs to be a strong opposition party to keep them honest and reasonable. At least that's how it's supposed to work in theory, right?

i know its not going to happen but parties are bad for America, because they divide the people and the nation, however a small limited federal government would make the problem of division less problematic

the left has spent decades working to increase the power and size of the federal government to be involved in our personal lives, instead of what the founders intended, a limited government with state government powers concerning the lives liberty and property of the people.

by having state powers dealing with the people and not the federal government is state is sovereign and independent from the other, and this makes for the ability of people to vote with their feet, meaning people can move state to state which has the laws and values that represents them, and what the president does has little effect on the peoples personal lives

but because the left has saw fit to try to make every state uniform by federal action in every way, now just about everything Washington does directly impacts the day to day lives of the American people, yet that is what they wanted an all powerful strong central government in control, but they didn't expect Donald Trump

 

[eohrnberger]

i know its not going to happen but parties are bad for America, because they divide the people and the nation, however a small limited federal government would make the problem of division less problematic

the left has spent decades working to increase the power and size of the federal government to be involved in our personal lives, instead of what the founders intended, a limited government with state government powers concerning the lives liberty and property of the people.

by having state powers dealing with the people and not the federal government is state is sovereign and independent from the other, and this makes for the ability of people to vote with their feet, meaning people can move state to state which has the laws and values that represents them, and what the president does has little effect on the peoples personal lives

but because the left has saw fit to try to make every state uniform by federal action in every way, now just about everything Washington does directly impacts the day to day lives of the American people, yet that is what they wanted an all powerful strong central government in control, but they didn't expect Donald Trump

So what you are saying is that Trump has a chance to set things right; back to where they should have remained all along.

Perhaps this wisdom of the electorate that so much talked about isn't all just so much hyperbole, in that recognizing what you've described, they've elected someone who might be able to set things right, once again.

Or perhaps not. I'm actually satisfied that he turn back or halt the advance of the leftists, excessive PC correct direction, and it would seem the majority of electorate would agree, for quite some time already.

Date

	Right Direction	Wrong Track
Dec 4-8	35%	55%
Nov 27-Dec 1	31%	59%
Nov 20-22	30%	58%
Nov 13-17	33%	58%
Nov 6-10	32%	60%
Oct 30-Nov 3	30%	63%
Oct 23-27	31%	63%
Oct 16-20	31%	63%
Oct 9-13	29%	66%
Oct 2-6	30%	65%
Sep 25-29	29%	65%
Sep 18-22	28%	67%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._of_america/right_direction_wrong_track_dec12

If so many are thinking that the nation is going in the wrong direction, how wise is it to run an 'establishment' candidate, who promises just more of the same?

 

[Cable]

As far as I can tell, there's only group in the United States who will categorically benefit from a Trump administration: rich white men who are shareholders in internet service providers. Everybody else will lose something as a result.

Your racist rants are what enabled Trumps victory. You might consider getting a new life. This is a big country full of all kinds of folks who will succeed under Trump.
The folks who will suffer the most are the bought and paid for Progressive underclass voting constituency. i.e. freeloading, unproductive non-workers.

 

[Cable]

I have no hope for his adminstration. My family immigrated here and is half Muslim. A lot people are not feeling part of his future America. It may be great for you though.

Do you love America? Willing to work hard? Willing to take care of yourselves and make your lives work? You will do fine....

 

[Cable]

Ahhhh...racist, eh? Where's the racism? Quote me. I dare you.

Standard Progressive attack vector. They can't help it, it's in the handbook. Just call it out, they are the true racists. They are anything they need to be generally, in order to win. They understand how facts can be plied for advantage, but they don't understand truth nor honestly for the most part. Period.