Don't Believe What you See or What you Read

[beefheart]

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command" George Orwell, 1984

 

[Luckyone]

He is telling them no such thing. He is only telling them that the media is telling them false stuff.

Sorry, but when you start making **** up like you did here, you will get the same thing I give the media...

You are dismissed.

You mean to tell me that at some point in time he has stated that "some" of what the media has stated about him is correct? That he has agreed that he is not PERFECT and that maybe all his decisions have not been right? Has he EVER said something like that?

He is telling you "Only I know what is real and you should not pay attention to what your eyes see or what your read".

 

[jnug]

Trump clearly said "don't believe what you see and hear". Whether he was just talking about CNN and NBC or in general, it still means that he is telling people that they are dumb and cannot discriminate themselves whether the reporting is right or not.

He is telling people, I am the only one that will tell you the truth and don't even LOOK at what others are saying. Is that what you believe too?

I don't think you can stretch it that far. Trump has far more sinister motives for telling people "don't believe what you see and hear" than just some strategy to contest what Media outlets report and I don't at all think it means Trump is telling people they are dumb etc etc.

He is telling them "don't believe what you see and hear" so that he can do what he has had the WH do with the transcript of what we actually saw and heard from the podium in Helsinki and what Rudy has done with the Cohen tape. You could have seen the Helsinki podium interviews on C-Span. You didn't even need to get it off a cable news feed. If that Cohen tape is going to be presented in evidence, there will be a raw version of it and a version that has been cleaned up by technicians and Rudy is going to end up with his pants around his ankles AGAIN.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I don't think you actually addressed the question I asked. The question is whether you believe your own eyes and ears when hearing Trump talk or do you believe what Trump says you should believe.

As far as the question about Putin being relevant is that our intelligence community has determined that Putin wanted and worked to achieve Trump's victory and Putin confirmed that he did want Trump to win and worked in favor of it happening, meaning that the intelligence community is right and not Trump when he says "possibly, but I believe Trump when he said he did not work to make it happen.

Is that what you were asking?

I thought I made it perfectly clear that I typically fact-check before coming to any conclusions when I pointed out in a prior response that I PERSONALLY reviewed hours of video the MSM claimed showed Trump was a racist, sexist, etc., and found those claims to be untrue. In point of fact, as stated in posts during the campaign period, it was this false reporting that put me in Trump's camp originally.

I've seen little to no change in such reporting in the intervening time up to now.

Perhaps a review of my prior post history would show this to your satisfaction?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

So all you have is emotinalism and claims based on assumptions. Gotcha. You're dismissed.

No, that's not it.

Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the history of the time knows that there are similarities to the rise of Nazis and the rhetoric that Trump uses.

There doesn't have to be concentration camps to clearly see them, and it's not 'emotionalism' to correctly point them out.

 

[Casper]

Trump said yesterday "don't believe what you see or what you read"

What does this mean? That you need to be "told by Trump" what is real or not? or that you are not intelligent enough to understand what you see and read? or that the only one telling the Truth is Trump and everyone else, especially those against him, are lying?

Don't believe what you see or what you read is straight out the "1984" novel about a Dictators manual on what to do to silence your critics.

In addition and even more incredible is that the White House version of the Trump/Putin news conference has omitted the statement from Putin that he "wanted Trump to win the election". This is gone from the OFFICIAL transcript released by the White House. It is also said that "a new version" of the video of the news conference will be released but that it will be edited. Nonetheless, the Truth is that Putin did say he wanted Trump to win the election and that he worked in favor of it happening? Is editing this something you believe is the right thing to do?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/story/our-president-says-dont-believe-what-you-see-and-read/vi-AAAnvya

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/trump-putin-press-conference-transcript/565385/

Are we now to believe only what Trump says and disregard everything else? Is truth now to be evicted from our Democracy? Are differences of opinion and talking about the options (other than Trump's) now to be silenced like Trump talking about revoking the Security Clearances of 6 former officials that criticized him. Is this what is now called Democracy?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-may-revoke-security-clearances-for-6-former-officials-who-have-criticized-him-2018-07-23

I don't know about you but to me this is a Democracy turning into a Dictatorship and I don't like it.

Voice your opinions on this! Republicans and Trumpians welcome to chime in.

Learned long before he was elected to not believe a word trump says, he lies like he breathes, constantly. Too bad his minions are too brainwashed dead to see the truth, even when it is pointed out to them over and over.

 

[Luckyone]

And isn't this all so novel, Pero? Here you have a President who takes to Twitter, who is exploiting social media to get his own message out and bypassing the MSM in the most modern of ways, and a MSM that is generally more openly hostile than I can remember in my lifetime. I'm inclined to grain-of-salt them all.



There are still great journos out there, but there are too many who didn't take Journo 101, who, rather than seeing their job as reporting facts, have appointed themselves the shapers of the news. For those unfamiliar with Ezra Klein and the infamous JournoList: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

And again, social media is having a huge impact, especially on otherwise "low-information" voters. In the Insta-Info Age, it's more difficult to sort facts, especially with the earliest breaking-news reports. Smiling as I think of the old saying about how a lie can traverse the globe before the truth has the time to put its pants on.

Anyway, I find fascinating a President deliberately bypassing the MSM and very funny, although shocking, his saying aloud, "I don't take questions from CNN; they're fake news."

Do I need to remind everyone that most of the news is not opinion but simply replaying video of what Trump said?

This thing about Fake News is getting tiresome because 90% of what Trump is calling Fake News is simply a Trump video on what he said. That is NOT fake news. It is a President that is incompetent, making mistake after mistake, and a cabinet that is mostly (actually totally) yes men. The Fake News accusations from Trump is just his ego that will not allow him to say he was wrong, as such he has to blame someone and the only ones he can blame is the media by saying they are reporting Fake News. C'mon people, are you not intelligent enough to realize this is what is happening? Do you NOT have eyes and ears? Can you not make evaluations for yourself?

 

[Mycroft]

You mean to tell me that at some point in time he has stated that "some" of what the media has stated about him is correct? That he has agreed that he is not PERFECT and that maybe all his decisions have not been right? Has he EVER said something like that?

He is telling you "Only I know what is real and you should not pay attention to what your eyes see or what your read". View attachment 67236886

 

[Luckyone]

Learned long before he was elected to not believe a word trump says, he lies like he breathes, constantly. Too bad his minions are too brainwashed dead to see the truth, even when it is pointed out to them over and over.

 

[Luckyone]

View attachment 67236887

Hahahahaha

 

[nota bene]

Do I need to remind everyone that most of the news is not opinion but simply replaying video of what Trump said?

This thing about Fake News is getting tiresome because 90% of what Trump is calling Fake News is simply a Trump video on what he said. That is NOT fake news. It is a President that is incompetent, making mistake after mistake, and a cabinet that is mostly (actually totally) yes men. The Fake News accusations from Trump is just his ego that will not allow him to say he was wrong, as such he has to blame someone and the only ones he can blame is the media by saying they are reporting Fake News. C'mon people, are you not intelligent enough to realize this is what is happening? Do you NOT have eyes and ears? Can you not make evaluations for yourself?

Yes, I can. But I also don't see the point in a discourse with somebody whose attitude is "Don't bother me with facts; my mind is made up."

I don't see "truth now to be evicted from our Democracy or any "silencing" of the media, and I also don't see "Democracy turning into a Dictatorship."

 

[Luckyone]

Can you let me know your opinion first so I can form one based on yours?

My opinion is clear on the thread that I wrote. Check it out by going to the first page and the first comment.

 

[americanwoman]

My opinion is clear on the thread that I wrote. Check it out by going to the first page and the first comment.

I did go to the first page and comment my opinion. Maybe you don't remember, it was a couple hours ago after all.

I'm sure a reality TV star shyster knows what is real and what is not. /s :lamo

 

[Luckyone]

Is that what you were asking?

I thought I made it perfectly clear that I typically fact-check before coming to any conclusions when I pointed out in a prior response that I PERSONALLY reviewed hours of video the MSM claimed showed Trump was a racist, sexist, etc., and found those claims to be untrue. In point of fact, as stated in posts during the campaign period, it was this false reporting that put me in Trump's camp originally.

I've seen little to no change in such reporting in the intervening time up to now.

Perhaps a review of my prior post history would show this to your satisfaction?

Perhaps, but then again this thread is not about Trump being a racist, sexist, etc.......as such, your response does not go with the thread in which the video states that Trump is belittling the ability of people to judge for themselves or that the WH erased the part where Putin was asked if he wanted Trump to win and whether he helped him?

Bringing up what you researched in the past has no effect on what he did this time.

 

[Luckyone]

Yes, I can. But I also don't see the point in a discourse with somebody whose attitude is "Don't bother me with facts; my mind is made up."

I don't see "truth now to be evicted from our Democracy or any "silencing" of the media, and I also don't see "Democracy turning into a Dictatorship."

Bother me with facts! I never mind being bothered with Facts. Every single time I have been given facts, such as Trump improving the economy, I have agreed to it. I deal with facts for everything I do. Just don't give me opinions as facts, they are not.

As far as "truth not to be evicted and Democracy turning into a Dictatorship", then I say you are turning a blind eye to what is happening. What Trump is doing is straight from the guidelines of how to turn a Democracy into a Dictatorship. That is hasn't happened does not mean he is not trying and going down that road. If you believe at all in prevention, then you need to do something. If you want it to be a "fact" then you will be "too late to do anything about it". Much like what Cancer works. Do the right things at the beginning and you won't get Cancer. Eat the wrong food and let Cancer get a foothold, when you get it your options are all bad.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Tangible? Rhetoric?

You mean to tell me that a man should not be judged by his own words? If you believe that, then everything and anything is possible. A liar could be the most truthful person in the world. A bully can be Mother Teresa. a dictator could be a giver. a coward could be a hero..............if words mean nothing.

Do you remember the old adage about "a man is only as good as his words"? Do you not believe in that?

Ever heard of the old adage of "actions speak louder than words"? Do you not believe in that? I prefer my old adage over yours any day o the week.

 

[jnug]

Ever heard of the old adage of "actions speak louder than words"? Do you not believe in that? I prefer my old adage over yours any day o the week.

In trumps case, words are actions because all you get from Trump is words! Words that contradict each other, words that step on each other, and then when he does not like the result, no words. Words are all Trump has....he is all theater ...all bluster....all rhetoric all the time spiced up with a few meaningless and trivial moves so that he looks like he is doing something.

He can DO one thing.....effort to save his own miserable butt. That he tries to do constantly..not well but constantly.

 

[OscarLevant]

Trump said yesterday "don't believe what you see or what you read"

What does this mean? That you need to be "told by Trump" what is real or not? or that you are not intelligent enough to understand what you see and read? or that the only one telling the Truth is Trump and everyone else, especially those against him, are lying?

Don't believe what you see or what you read is straight out the "1984" novel about a Dictators manual on what to do to silence your critics.

In addition and even more incredible is that the White House version of the Trump/Putin news conference has omitted the statement from Putin that he "wanted Trump to win the election". This is gone from the OFFICIAL transcript released by the White House. It is also said that "a new version" of the video of the news conference will be released but that it will be edited. Nonetheless, the Truth is that Putin did say he wanted Trump to win the election and that he worked in favor of it happening? Is editing this something you believe is the right thing to do?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/story/our-president-says-dont-believe-what-you-see-and-read/vi-AAAnvya

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/trump-putin-press-conference-transcript/565385/

Are we now to believe only what Trump says and disregard everything else? Is truth now to be evicted from our Democracy? Are differences of opinion and talking about the options (other than Trump's) now to be silenced like Trump talking about revoking the Security Clearances of 6 former officials that criticized him. Is this what is now called Democracy?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-may-revoke-security-clearances-for-6-former-officials-who-have-criticized-him-2018-07-23

I don't know about you but to me this is a Democracy turning into a Dictatorship and I don't like it.

Voice your opinions on this! Republicans and Trumpians welcome to chime in.

What serves Russia's interest?

The west in chaos, where it's citizens cannot trust what they hear or read, etc., where up is down, black is white, etc.

Therefore, Trump is serving Putin's agenda, he is Putin's poodle. No doubt about it.


We are witnessing fabian fascism -- creeping fascism that is starting to gallop.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Like I said it doesn't happen overnight. Here are the steps that can make it happen:

1. Expand your power base through nepotism and corruption.

Who do you know that has put family members in key Whitehouse positions, which was pretty much unheard of until now? And do I even have to show examples of the corruption?

Trump isn't the first to put family members in cabinet level position. I don't have time to look now but I'll look up the info for you later on this.

2. Instigate a monopoly on the use of force to curb public protest.

We are now outlawing pubic protest and treating peaceful protesters as the enemy.

?? Where and who has this happened to?

3. Curry favour by providing public goods efficiently and generously.

So the entire Democrat party are dictators? They are after all the ones that favor welfare programs. Far more than Republicans.

4. Get rid of your political enemies

Hasn't happened.

5. Create and defeat a common enemy.

So every President that has waged war on another country can be considered as a dictator? That's every President for longer than I've been alive.

6. Accumulate power by manipulating the hearts and minds of your citizens.

Something that every single President does in order to get elected. Time and again since the US was founded. Guess all US Presidents are dictators like Hitler huh?

7. Create an ideology to justify an exalted position

No new ideolog has been created by Trump.

I can easily show you examples of where Trump has and is doing all of this but I need to get some work done today. I'm self employed. If I don't work I don't eat.

I'll wait.

 

[jnug]

WH now claiming that the misrepresentation of the actual words spoken from the podium in Helsinki was a MISTAKE...another MISTAKE. This administration and its halfwit President have got to be the most mistake prone pair in history or at least that is what they would have us believe. So now having gone down this route will they correct the text in the official transcript for what was one of the two most important parts of this interview?

 

[Luckyone]

Ever heard of the old adage of "actions speak louder than words"? Do you not believe in that? I prefer my old adage over yours any day o the week.

I see, actions are what count right?

How about these:

1) Failed to condem the All-right
2) Stood by Ray Moore
3) Dismissed Russian Interference
4) Fired James Comey because "his investigation into Russia interference"
5) his noxious tweets about respectable people
6) giving Miranda rights to captured terrorists
7) empowering Syria massacres of their own people by siding with Russia
8) attacked the FBI, which defends us.
9) has spent more time attacking Republicans (his own party) than Democrats
10) has made no effort at bi-partisanship
11) lauded our enemies and degraded our allies
12) broke the agreement with Iran that had been made by his predecessor and has not replaced it with anything.
13) promised to replace Obamacare with "something better and cheaper" and has not done it
14) separated mothers from their children and then promised to re-unite them but there are still over 2500 that are separated because the government doesn't know where they are)

I could probably go on and on but here are 14 cases of actions speaking louder than words.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

When it comes to Trump, though, I'm guessing that he's insinuating that the reporting being done doesn't quite reflect the actual facts, and we've seen that to be true a number of times in the past couple of years.

We've also seen that Trump has intentionally made numerous false statements. I think the media is far more reliable in terms of truth than Trump. I would say Trump has been so dishonest that no rational person would take his word about anything.

 

[Luckyone]

Ever heard of the old adage of "actions speak louder than words"? Do you not believe in that? I prefer my old adage over yours any day o the week.

How about this "action" what does this chart tell you?

 

[Howard the Duck]

How about this "action" what does this chart tell you?


View attachment 67236911

Wow!!

 

[Mycroft]

How about this "action" what does this chart tell you?


View attachment 67236911

I don't think you understand what the immigration ban is all about.

That chart is meaningless.