Don't Believe What you See or What you Read

[Captain Adverse]

It is not the "shyster's" comment that is important, it is what Trump SAID himself that is important. He said, DON'T believe your eyes or your ears. Believe what I say! That is the issue. Do you not have your own opinions on what is right or wrong? do you need someone to tell you what is right and wrong? If you do, then I feel sorry for you

What Trump "said" in that clip is "What you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."

I interpret that statement as a commentary on what is being said, and what is being selectively shown in the MSM, as media "spin" rather than factual news reporting.

IMO this is true, as I had to wade through many hours of video over the last 2 years only to find out how selective editing of comments by Mr. Trump to show he was "racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc." were not actually true.

This on top of the same vitriolic hyperbole displayed by several Forum members as being reflective of the MSM and other "disinformation" media sources.

 

[Luckyone]

I believe facts, whether they come from Trump or anyone else. Is that a problem, in your opinion?

In any case, I don't give a rat's ass if you respect me or believe what I say. That's entirely your choice.

Yes, I understand what you say but.............why should we believe what you say? What are your credentials for us to believe your version versus mine? What is your experience, background, education, and life knowledge that would make you someone to believe?

I have given mine before and explained in detail what my background, experience, knowledge, age and political leanings are. What are yours?

 

[Perotista]

Trump said yesterday "don't believe what you see or what you read"

What does this mean? That you need to be "told by Trump" what is real or not? or that you are not intelligent enough to understand what you see and read? or that the only one telling the Truth is Trump and everyone else, especially those against him, are lying?

Don't believe what you see or what you read is straight out the "1984" novel about a Dictators manual on what to do to silence your critics.

In addition and even more incredible is that the White House version of the Trump/Putin news conference has omitted the statement from Putin that he "wanted Trump to win the election". This is gone from the OFFICIAL transcript released by the White House. It is also said that "a new version" of the video of the news conference will be released but that it will be edited. Nonetheless, the Truth is that Putin did say he wanted Trump to win the election and that he worked in favor of it happening? Is editing this something you believe is the right thing to do?



Are we now to believe only what Trump says and disregard everything else? Is truth now to be evicted from our Democracy? Are differences of opinion and talking about the options (other than Trump's) now to be silenced like Trump talking about revoking the Security Clearances of 6 former officials that criticized him. Is this what is now called Democracy?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-may-revoke-security-clearances-for-6-former-officials-who-have-criticized-him-2018-07-23

I don't know about you but to me this is a Democracy turning into a Dictatorship and I don't like it.

Voice your opinions on this! Republicans and Trumpians welcome to chime in.

I suppose Trump's statement plays into his fake news bit. All presidents have tried to control the media to a certain extent. Not overtly as Trump seems to be doing. But this goes back to his war with the media shortly after he announced his bid for the presidency back in 2015. We know Trump and the MSM are in the midst of a feud. Most people recognize this and probably pay little attention to it by now. Trump isn't subtle in his attempt to control or at least degrade the media.

This feud, Trump has brought out into the open. Now this game has been going on for a long time that predates Trump. Republicans complained a whole lot about the MSM being on Obama's side and not treating him like they did G.W. Bush. Let's face it, even without Trump public trust in our news reporting media has been on a decline. Before Trump even took office. I think it is because the press, the media has taken sides in our political battles instead of just reporting on those political battles. How many American's are going to jump up like you did over this "Don't believe." They already don't trust the media to report the news fully, fairly and accurately.

Take a look at this, public trust in news reporting, the media was at its highest in 1976 at 72%. That dropped to 55% during Bill Clinton, further trust eroded during G.W. Bush down to 45% by the time Obama took office and now has fallen to 32% in 2016 the last year of Obama.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

You can see the break down by party further down in the article. Mistrust is already out there by the time Trump took office. Most folks ignore this fake news and don't believe stuff as pure propaganda. Being trust in the media wasn't there when Trump entered office, he's winning his war with the media because the people distrust the media. 46% of all Americans think the media makes up stories about Trump to degrade him and make him look bad. that it's the media that is dishonest.

Poll: 46 percent think media make up stories about Trump

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/18/trump-media-fake-news-poll-243884

If the media hadn't taken sides in our political battles, long before Trump. Perhaps more Americans might trust them and be shocked like you. But the media lost a lot of their credence and respect a long time for Trump. Trump is just using that loss of credibility to his advantage.

When only 32% Americans trusted the media prior to Trump, they're apt to start now whether the media is right or wrong. The media has done this to themselves, Trump is just very good at playing to what the media had done to themselves.

 

[jnug]

It means some very damaging evidence against Trump is about to come out and Trump wants to make sure his mindless Trumpkins listen only to him and not their lying eyes or ears.

Actually regardless of how "revealing" the SDNY Cohen thing is and Mueller is NOTHING is as damaging to Trump at this point than Singapore to Brussels to London to Helsinki. NOTHING and there is nothing he can do other than push it off for half a news cycle or so and then its right back again.

Inviting Putin to DC was like shooting himself in the groin because with that hung out there Helsinki is the story that won't go away. Even if Putin declines in an effort to bail his pet poodle out, I don't think it will wash. Too many mistakes made all in a row and in truth they are being picked apart in turn. Haven't even gotten to some of them yet. The dems might save a few of them up for the fall.

 

[Xelor]

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
-- George Orwell, 1984

 

[Luckyone]

What Trump "said" in that clip is "What you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."

I interpret that statement as a commentary on what is being said, and what is being selectively shown in the MSM, as media "spin" rather than factual news reporting.

IMO this is true, as I had to wade through many hours of video over the last 2 years only to find out how selective editing of comments by Mr. Trump to show he was "racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc." were not actually true.

"media spin"

Though I can understand that "in general" as media spin can and does happen (Fox News is a perfect example of this), the one thing you cannot dismiss is that these things that they are uncovering are happening. Whether Trump is right in saying that they (th media) talked to 20 people to find one that says what they want to say (which is mostly hogwash), the reality is that these people that they are interviewing are saying what they are experiencing due to Trump's action. In this particular case, they were interviewing about 10 different farmers or company owners and in every single case these were people that voted FOR Trump and not against them. As such, these are fans of Trump that are presently unhappy with how Trump's actions are hurting them.

In addition, much of the news media that Trump is calling Fake News, is just video of what Trump has said in public. It is NOT opinion. Trump is the first one that gives all kinds of fodder for criticism himself. All you need to do is look. Nonetheless, Trump is saying "don't believe what you see". Does that mean he is telling you not to believe your own eyes when Putin says on camera "yes, I wanted Trump to win", or when Trump talks well of Kim Jung-un", or when he says he is tough on Putin and then says on camera that Putin told him the "he was not responsible for the meddling with the election" and Trump said "I believe him"

If this what our eyes see that we are not to believe?

 

[Mycroft]

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1021840858612727809

Thank you.

So...in context, he was talking about the kind of dishonest reporting coming from the media...he specifically mentions CNN and NBC. He is telling the people to not believe what you see and hear from them.

So...

What does this mean?

It means exactly what he said. You cannot believe the media because they don't tell you the truth.

That you need to be "told by Trump" what is real or not?

I don't think so. I didn't hear Trump say that at all, did you?

Since the rest of your post is based on something I didn't hear, I'll just dismiss your fantasy.

 

[Thoreau72]

Trump said yesterday "don't believe what you see or what you read"

What does this mean? That you need to be "told by Trump" what is real or not? or that you are not intelligent enough to understand what you see and read? or that the only one telling the Truth is Trump and everyone else, especially those against him, are lying?

Don't believe what you see or what you read is straight out the "1984" novel about a Dictators manual on what to do to silence your critics.

In addition and even more incredible is that the White House version of the Trump/Putin news conference has omitted the statement from Putin that he "wanted Trump to win the election". This is gone from the OFFICIAL transcript released by the White House. It is also said that "a new version" of the video of the news conference will be released but that it will be edited. Nonetheless, the Truth is that Putin did say he wanted Trump to win the election and that he worked in favor of it happening? Is editing this something you believe is the right thing to do?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/story/our-president-says-dont-believe-what-you-see-and-read/vi-AAAnvya

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/trump-putin-press-conference-transcript/565385/

Are we now to believe only what Trump says and disregard everything else? Is truth now to be evicted from our Democracy? Are differences of opinion and talking about the options (other than Trump's) now to be silenced like Trump talking about revoking the Security Clearances of 6 former officials that criticized him. Is this what is now called Democracy?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-may-revoke-security-clearances-for-6-former-officials-who-have-criticized-him-2018-07-23

I don't know about you but to me this is a Democracy turning into a Dictatorship and I don't like it.

Voice your opinions on this! Republicans and Trumpians welcome to chime in.

I agree with much of your post, but you committed the same offense I think, of taking liberty with what you say in your post and what was actually said by Putin. Yes, he said he favored Trump, but I'm pretty sure he did not say "that he worked in favor of it happening." Pot calling kettle black?

Your point that official records are edited and cleansed by the authorities and their sycophants is spot on! :applaud

 

[Captain Adverse]

"media spin"

Though I can understand that "in general" as media spin can and does happen (Fox News is a perfect example of this), the one thing you cannot dismiss is that these things that they are uncovering are happening. Whether Trump is right in saying that they (th media) talked to 20 people to find one that says what they want to say (which is mostly hogwash), the reality is that these people that they are interviewing are saying what they are experiencing due to Trump's action. In this particular case, they were interviewing about 10 different farmers or company owners and in every single case these were people that voted FOR Trump and not against them. As such, these are fans of Trump that are presently unhappy with how Trump's actions are hurting them.

In addition, much of the news media that Trump is calling Fake News, is just video of what Trump has said in public. It is NOT opinion. Trump is the first one that gives all kinds of fodder for criticism himself. All you need to do is look. Nonetheless, Trump is saying "don't believe what you see". Does that mean he is telling you not to believe your own eyes when Putin says on camera "yes, I wanted Trump to win", or when Trump talks well of Kim Jung-un", or when he says he is tough on Putin and then says on camera that Putin told him the "he was not responsible for the meddling with the election" and Trump said "I believe him"

If this what our eyes see that we are not to believe?

Well, I wanted Trump to win...which is why I voted for him. So what?

The fact that Putin states he preferred a Trump win over a Hillary win is meaningless...since he is entitled to his opinion, one which may be influenced by the fact that he has to deal with the man who won. Look how far it has gotten those foreign leaders who say they don't like Trump and preferred a Hillary win. They now have to deal with Trump anyway, and he is not letting them forget their comments.

The point being, diplomats and government leaders often say things publicly that they don't necessarily feel personally. It's part of the job. :shrug:

 

[KevinKohler]

People..which people said who about what? Gibberish...pure gibberish.

Right here on DP. People lined up to denounce Obama, call him a dictator, etc.

Before that, lots of people speculated that somehow, some way, GW was gonna extend his presidency, refuse to let go of power. Also never happened.

 

[WCH]

It's actually rather fitting when you look at all the methods he chased... and if it bothers you that much, then I think I've found a keeper.

If Russia was still a Communist country, they would worship your avatar. 8)

 

[americanwoman]

It is not the "shyster's" comment that is important, it is what Trump SAID himself that is important. He said, DON'T believe your eyes or your ears. Believe what I say! That is the issue. Do you not have your own opinions on what is right or wrong? do you need someone to tell you what is right and wrong? If you do, then I feel sorry for you

No, I have none of my own opinions and rely on people like Donald Trump to tell me was is real and what to think. /s

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, I understand what you say but.............why should we believe what you say?

As I said, that's entirely your choice. I'm not telling you what choice to make. You have to come up with your own reason for believing anything I say...or not believing anything I say. If my words, if the data and facts I present to support my words, are not believable, in your opinion, that's your choice. shrug... Make your choice and own it.

But I'm not going to tell you any personal details about myself...just because you want to know. (I would also suggest, for your own personal security, that you don't do that either)

 

[Luckyone]

I suppose Trump's statement plays into his fake news bit. All presidents have tried to control the media to a certain extent. Not overtly as Trump seems to be doing. But this goes back to his war with the media shortly after he announced his bid for the presidency back in 2015. We know Trump and the MSM are in the midst of a feud. Most people recognize this and probably pay little attention to it by now. Trump isn't subtle in his attempt to control or at least degrade the media.

This feud, Trump has brought out into the open. Now this game has been going on for a long time that predates Trump. Republicans complained a whole lot about the MSM being on Obama's side and not treating him like they did G.W. Bush. Let's face it, even without Trump public trust in our news reporting media has been on a decline. Before Trump even took office. I think it is because the press, the media has taken sides in our political battles instead of just reporting on those political battles. How many American's are going to jump up like you did over this "Don't believe." They already don't trust the media to report the news fully, fairly and accurately.

Take a look at this, public trust in news reporting, the media was at its highest in 1976 at 72%. That dropped to 55% during Bill Clinton, further trust eroded during G.W. Bush down to 45% by the time Obama took office and now has fallen to 32% in 2016 the last year of Obama.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

You can see the break down by party further down in the article. Mistrust is already out there by the time Trump took office. Most folks ignore this fake news and don't believe stuff as pure propaganda. Being trust in the media wasn't there when Trump entered office, he's winning his war with the media because the people distrust the media. 46% of all Americans think the media makes up stories about Trump to degrade him and make him look bad. that it's the media that is dishonest.

Poll: 46 percent think media make up stories about Trump

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/18/trump-media-fake-news-poll-243884

If the media hadn't taken sides in our political battles, long before Trump. Perhaps more Americans might trust them and be shocked like you. But the media lost a lot of their credence and respect a long time for Trump. Trump is just using that loss of credibility to his advantage.

When only 32% Americans trusted the media prior to Trump, they're apt to start now whether the media is right or wrong. The media has done this to themselves, Trump is just very good at playing to what the media had done to themselves.

Your comment is "general" in nature and not specific as to what was said recently by Trump. I cannot make decisions on what is right and wrong if I am worrying about whether 72% or 32% of the people believe the media. I believe my eyes and ears and I do try to check out my decisions by looking at as many sources as possible. I still can be wrong but most of the time there is enough information from the source itself (Trump) to be able to make a decision on what he is doing without the held of the media. I do believe this is the same case with people that have knowledge and common sense.

The amount of people that can be "influenced" by the media is small. Only dumb and uninformed people will sit and listen to the media and make their decisions/opinions on what is said.

 

[Luckyone]

Thank you.

So...in context, he was talking about the kind of dishonest reporting coming from the media...he specifically mentions CNN and NBC. He is telling the people to not believe what you see and hear from them.

So...



It means exactly what he said. You cannot believe the media because they don't tell you the truth.



I don't think so. I didn't hear Trump say that at all, did you?

Since the rest of your post is based on something I didn't hear, I'll just dismiss your fantasy.

Trump clearly said "don't believe what you see and hear". Whether he was just talking about CNN and NBC or in general, it still means that he is telling people that they are dumb and cannot discriminate themselves whether the reporting is right or not.

He is telling people, I am the only one that will tell you the truth and don't even LOOK at what others are saying. Is that what you believe too?

 

[jnug]

Trump clearly said "don't believe what you see and hear". Whether he was just talking about CNN and NBC or in general, it still means that he is telling people that they are dumb and cannot discriminate themselves whether the reporting is right or not.

He is telling people, I am the only one that will tell you the truth and don't even LOOK at what others are saying. Is that what you believe too?

That comment in front of the VFW was particularly interesting on the heels of the WH completely changing key elements of the Putin/Trump interviews from the podium at an official state to state meeting in Helsinki when you could see and hear with your own eyes and ears what was said. VFW members tend to be more interested in Russia/US relations than the average Joe and they will perk up their ears when the American President is standing next to a Russian or Soviet leader.

 

[Luckyone]

I agree with much of your post, but you committed the same offense I think, of taking liberty with what you say in your post and what was actually said by Putin. Yes, he said he favored Trump, but I'm pretty sure he did not say "that he worked in favor of it happening." Pot calling kettle black?

Your point that official records are edited and cleansed by the authorities and their sycophants is spot on! :applaud

No, the question from the reported was "did you want Trump to be elected and did you work in favor of it happening" and Putin said "yes". Whether he understood the question well or not is up for speculation but the question and answer were clear. See the tape.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-house-putin-trump-press-conference_us_5b5837d6e4b0fd5c73ca30ca

 

[Perotista]

Your comment is "general" in nature and not specific as to what was said recently by Trump. I cannot make decisions on what is right and wrong if I am worrying about whether 72% or 32% of the people believe the media. I believe my eyes and ears and I do try to check out my decisions by looking at as many sources as possible. I still can be wrong but most of the time there is enough information from the source itself (Trump) to be able to make a decision on what he is doing without the held of the media. I do believe this is the same case with people that have knowledge and common sense.

The amount of people that can be "influenced" by the media is small. Only dumb and uninformed people will sit and listen to the media and make their decisions/opinions on what is said.

I'll buy that. The point is that even if Trump tried to control the media and succeeded, few people even if the media pointed it out would believe them. They would shrug, go about their daily business not even caring. In other words, if Trump wants to control the media, now is the ideal time for him to do so. People for the most part don't look upon the media as a watchdog of democracy anymore. Just political propaganda wings of the two parties or in the case of Trump. Two camps, pro and anti Trump.

That's your danger, folks not even caring due to what the media has become over the years. sort of like the boy who called wolf one too many times.

 

[Mycroft]

Trump clearly said "don't believe what you see and hear". Whether he was just talking about CNN and NBC or in general, it still means that he is telling people that they are dumb and cannot discriminate themselves whether the reporting is right or not.

He is telling people, I am the only one that will tell you the truth and don't even LOOK at what others are saying. Is that what you believe too?

He is telling them no such thing. He is only telling them that the media is telling them false stuff.

Sorry, but when you start making **** up like you did here, you will get the same thing I give the media...

You are dismissed.

 

[Thoreau72]

No, the question from the reported was "did you want Trump to be elected and did you work in favor of it happening" and Putin said "yes". Whether he understood the question well or not is up for speculation but the question and answer were clear. See the tape.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-house-putin-trump-press-conference_us_5b5837d6e4b0fd5c73ca30ca

I'll take your word for it. "lost in translation" is a common event.

 

[Luckyone]

Well, I wanted Trump to win...which is why I voted for him. So what?

The fact that Putin states he preferred a Trump win over a Hillary win is meaningless...since he is entitled to his opinion, one which may be influenced by the fact that he has to deal with the man who won. Look how far it has gotten those foreign leaders who say they don't like Trump and preferred a Hillary win. They now have to deal with Trump anyway, and he is not letting them forget their comments.

The point being, diplomats and government leaders often say things publicly that they don't necessarily feel personally. It's part of the job. :shrug:

I don't think you actually addressed the question I asked. The question is whether you believe your own eyes and ears when hearing Trump talk or do you believe what Trump says you should believe.

As far as the question about Putin being relevant is that our intelligence community has determined that Putin wanted and worked to achieve Trump's victory and Putin confirmed that he did want Trump to win and worked in favor of it happening, meaning that the intelligence community is right and not Trump when he says "possibly, but I believe Trump when he said he did not work to make it happen.

 

[nota bene]

I suppose Trump's statement plays into his fake news bit. All presidents have tried to control the media to a certain extent. Not overtly as Trump seems to be doing. But this goes back to his war with the media shortly after he announced his bid for the presidency back in 2015. We know Trump and the MSM are in the midst of a feud. Most people recognize this and probably pay little attention to it by now. Trump isn't subtle in his attempt to control or at least degrade the media.

And isn't this all so novel, Pero? Here you have a President who takes to Twitter, who is exploiting social media to get his own message out and bypassing the MSM in the most modern of ways, and a MSM that is generally more openly hostile than I can remember in my lifetime. I'm inclined to grain-of-salt them all.

Take a look at this, public trust in news reporting, the media was at its highest in 1976 at 72%. That dropped to 55% during Bill Clinton, further trust eroded during G.W. Bush down to 45% by the time Obama took office and now has fallen to 32% in 2016 the last year of Obama.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

You can see the break down by party further down in the article. Mistrust is already out there by the time Trump took office. Most folks ignore this fake news and don't believe stuff as pure propaganda. Being trust in the media wasn't there when Trump entered office, he's winning his war with the media because the people distrust the media. 46% of all Americans think the media makes up stories about Trump to degrade him and make him look bad. that it's the media that is dishonest.

Poll: 46 percent think media make up stories about Trump

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/18/trump-media-fake-news-poll-243884

If the media hadn't taken sides in our political battles, long before Trump. Perhaps more Americans might trust them and be shocked like you. But the media lost a lot of their credence and respect a long time for Trump. Trump is just using that loss of credibility to his advantage.

When only 32% Americans trusted the media prior to Trump, they're apt to start now whether the media is right or wrong. The media has done this to themselves, Trump is just very good at playing to what the media had done to themselves.

There are still great journos out there, but there are too many who didn't take Journo 101, who, rather than seeing their job as reporting facts, have appointed themselves the shapers of the news. For those unfamiliar with Ezra Klein and the infamous JournoList: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

And again, social media is having a huge impact, especially on otherwise "low-information" voters. In the Insta-Info Age, it's more difficult to sort facts, especially with the earliest breaking-news reports. Smiling as I think of the old saying about how a lie can traverse the globe before the truth has the time to put its pants on.

Anyway, I find fascinating a President deliberately bypassing the MSM and very funny, although shocking, his saying aloud, "I don't take questions from CNN; they're fake news."

 

[Luckyone]

No, I have none of my own opinions and rely on people like Donald Trump to tell me was is real and what to think. /s

Good for you!

So then, what is your opinion on the original question asked on this thread?

 

[americanwoman]

Good for you!

So then, what is your opinion on the original question asked on this thread?

Can you let me know your opinion first so I can form one based on yours?

 

[DaveFagan]

I agree with much of your post, but you committed the same offense I think, of taking liberty with what you say in your post and what was actually said by Putin. Yes, he said he favored Trump, but I'm pretty sure he did not say "that he worked in favor of it happening." Pot calling kettle black?

Your point that official records are edited and cleansed by the authorities and their sycophants is spot on! :applaud

Let's grade the MSM!

Freedom Fighters (MSM narrative). Or invaders in Vietnam, Panama, Granada, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc.
Defending Democracy (MSM narrative). Or subverting democracy as in Nicaragua, Venezuela, Honduras, Ukraine, Haiti, Chili, Syria, etc.
Supporting Democracies (MSM narrative). For example, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, and the World's greatest scumbags.
Using Offensive War to save lives Worldwide. Except for the 20 million peons, peasants, pissants and peckerheads we have killed in the last 60 years.
Military Defense (MSM narrative). No Nation has attacked the USA since WWII.
Strong Military for peace(MSM narrative). Translates to Corporate Welfare to rich Warmongers.
Russia/Putin evil (MSM narrative). Putin upset USA sponsored coup d'etat in Ukraine and swiped the Jewel (Crimea).
NK/Kim evil (MSM narrative). NK and Kim make overtures for peace and overnight the narrative dies.

These items are the tip of the MSM narrative iceberg. I don't generally support Trump, but he has chosen to control his own MSM and is doing a good job in that respect. Perhaps one must take a more objective look at the possibility of fake news in the MSM and analyze who promotes/pays for the false narratives. One might find that the Deep State lives.
/