Do you support Bernie Sanders' 32 hour work week proposal?

[Helix]

Maybe our grandfathers were made of much sterner stuff. I'm including myself in that "less stern" category, as well. I've joked about "starvation wages" on the jobs...but that was jokes. My grandfathers and their fathers knew what the real thing was, and what companies playing at being minor tyrannies actually consisted of. They didn't complain that they didn't have a union.

They went and got a union.

So far as your "they gave up their unions for guns" thing; it doesn't apply. Those soldiers of organized labor had guns. They sometimes had to use them to get their union.

A childhood friend of mine had a Winchester lever action rifle hanging in his bedroom with his more mundane guns. It was a nearly as-new rifle model with octagon barrel chambered in .44-40. It was in such good condition for its age, because it had only been fired on one occasion, then brought home and hidden for decades. That occasion was the Virden Massacre.

Give it a shot. Do you have a boat? How young are you? If you're older, you're going to miss out on a big part of the anti-union state experience. You need to start your career here to really get in on all of the good stuff.

 

[RF667799]

Party of the productive. The wealthiest voters still voted Republican. 20 years ago, Republicans had a slight advantage with knowledge workers. Trump changed that by dumbing down the GOP so much that he drove them out and turned the party into the party of left behind, aggrieved America.

So the workers in blue areas are downtrodden and abused, but highly productive nonetheless? What are these workers producing?

 

[RF667799]

Give it a shot. Do you have a boat? How young are you? If you're older, you're going to miss out on a big part of the anti-union state experience. You need to start your career here to really get in on all of the good stuff.

I'm retired courtesy of a defined benefit pension and a 401K type plan to which I never contributed a nickel.

Look Helix, all you are telling me is that it is difficult to organize a union. I fully agreed earlier. My grandfathers found it difficult. It can't be impossible though, as evidenced by the existence of unions and some success in organizing union shops that still goes on. But it takes more than one person who wants a union, to actually get one. And it takes some real commitment to solidarity. I don't even see that too much in the ranks of the union workers these days. Spoiled, I believe.

 

[Helix]

I'm retired courtesy of a defined benefit pension and a 401K type plan to which I never contributed a nickel.

Look Helix, all you are telling me is that it is difficult to organize a union. I fully agreed earlier. My grandfathers found it difficult. It can't be impossible though, as evidenced by the existence of unions and some success in organizing union shops that still goes on. But it takes more than one person who wants a union, to actually get one. And it takes some real commitment to solidarity. I don't even see that too much in the ranks of the union workers these days. Spoiled, I believe.

Enjoy your retirement, and be glad that you worked when and where you did. I don't mean that in an entirely snarky way, either. I think that everyone deserves a good retirement after working hard.

 

[RF667799]

Enjoy your retirement, and be glad that you worked when and where you did. I don't mean that in an entirely snarky way, either. I think that everyone deserves a good retirement after working hard.

I think I expressed my gratitude to those who came before me, in an earlier post. And I quite agree with you on retirement.

 

[volitleaire]

It has in various companies to be honest when trying to look it up there seems pretty limited information.

Thanks, I’ll have to do some research. If I recall correctly, mandated break time has been shown to increase productivity. I’d better it’s a similar circumstance.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I would cheerfully COMPROMISE and accept a four day work week with four TEN hour days if that would help a measure pass.
Either way, workers would finally get three days to actually live their lives.
Funny thing is, NIXON actually backed the idea once.
https://wapo.st/3TlbWgE

 

[RF667799]

I would cheerfully COMPROMISE and accept a four day work week with four TEN hour days if that would help a measure pass.
Either way, workers would finally get three days to actually live their lives.
Funny thing is, NIXON actually backed the idea once.
https://wapo.st/3TlbWgE

I liked four tens myself. Not everyone does, but there's nothing really stopping a company from having that as their schedule. Even our union that was pretty rigid on working hours, was willing to allow four ten hours days without invoking the rule for over 8 being O/T.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I liked four tens myself. Not everyone does, but there's nothing really stopping a company from having that as their schedule. Even our union that was pretty rigid on working hours, was willing to allow four ten hours days without invoking the rule for over 8 being O/T.

I realize it isn't possible with EVERY industry but the fact that it would work with 75 percent of industries should be enough.
I am sure some exceptions can be made.
But still, four tens seems like it would work for a lot of us.

Work to live, don't live to work, and I say that as a person who for forty years, went to work as a Director of Photography and film editor and every day, even the bad days, was "BEST DAY AT WORK EVER!" because I loved my jobs.

 

[LouC]

Bernie's Proposal

You can read the proposal above, but here is the basic functions:

- The standard work week is 32 hours per week, instead of the 40 hour work week.
- Employers are not allowed to decrease wages or benefits.
- If you work more than 32 hours, you're required to get overtime pay.
- Less money, but more free time and (projected) higher productivity.
- Opponents argue that it will force employers to hire more people.
- Opponents argue it might be assembly-line work force.

Do you support or oppose this?

I had to vote UNSURE. It is not something I have given any thought to really, since I have long been out of the workforce.

I might have to really look into the pros and cons being written for this.

Our employment structures are, in my opinion, thoroughly fouled or so convoluted as to make any such proposal seem like one more straw on the load on a sway backed camel.

My initial emotion is opposition.

I would love to read an explanation from Bernie why he wants this system and what it is that is broken that he wishes to fix with this proposal?

If anyone has that infor?

 

[LouC]

I liked four tens myself. Not everyone does, but there's nothing really stopping a company from having that as their schedule. Even our union that was pretty rigid on working hours, was willing to allow four ten hours days without invoking the rule for over 8 being O/T.

The best hours I ever had was four 24 hours on with four 24 hours off when I co-managed a Group Home back in California. I also liked working four 10's when I did that.

 

[ralfy]

The Productivity–Pay Gap

The huge gap between rising incomes at the top and stagnating pay for the rest of us shows that workers are no longer benefiting from their rising productivity. Before 1979, worker pay and productivity grew in tandem. But since 1979, productivity has grown eight times faster than typical worker...

www.epi.org

The gap between productivity and a typical worker’s compensation has increased dramatically since 1979

 

[Cameron]

Man are you reading the graphs wrong.
2022 France GDP @$2.8 trillion
2022 Mississippi GDP @$139 billion

I didn't, you missed the words "per capita."

 

[jpevans]

Bernie Sanders

The loser that made a living spouting off.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927/

He was always a bum.

Bernie Sanders, The Bum Who Wants Your Money | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Bernie Sanders was a ne’er-do-well into his late 30s.

www.investors.com

Bernie was a teacher, " He taught Political Science at Hamilton College and Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government respectively. 'Sanders spent time in Israel, where he would live on a kibbutz, traditionally an agricultural community. Back home, Sanders did not stray away from that path on his way either. He moved to Vermont, initially working as a union carpenter and freelance journalist."
Why lie.

Here's What Bernie Sanders Did Before Politics

It is crazy to think that Sanders believed that he would not last long as a politician.

www.thethings.com

 

[mrjurrs]

I didn't, you missed the words "per capita."

oops, that makes a bit of a difference doesn't it?

 

[cpwill]

Because the Rand Corporation established years ago that the most sustainable work you can get out of people is 5.5 hours in a day.

That's..... interesting, and, I'd be interested in how they came to that conclusion.* Do you happen to have a link to that?

If so, that would seem to suggest an optimal balance of work is ~6 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 36 total hours, would it not?


*Specifically, I am curious about retail and other types of industries where the employee is customer-facing, or manufacture, where the employee doesn't necessarily have the option to increase or decrease their performance. How does a security guard "guard less well" for 2.5 hours of a 8 hour shift... or someone who serves coffee at starbucks, or someone who puts the widget on the doohickey....

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Yep. It's proven to work out. Americans are top when it comes to overworked, and underpaid. Fixing this would make for a better quality of life.

 

[Ginger Ale]

I'm unsure if you're laughing at Americans being overworked, or you think that we lack the ability to do anything about it. It's palatable how little faith the right has in American progress. It really is. What's the point? If you're going to give up and just roll over, why bother proclaiming it?

 

[Mungo Jerry]

I'm unsure if you're laughing a...

Your silliness.
I'm laughing at your silliness.

 

[cpwill]

Americans are not underpaid:

...World Bank tracks a number of income- and poverty-related metrics, including GDP per capita, GNI per capita, GINI coefficient per country, and median income. As of March 2021, the 10 countries with the highest median incomes ranked are below. Note that these amounts are in current "international dollars", which is a theoretical dollar often used in country-to-country comparisons. International dollars are not equivalent to U.S. dollars, or euros, or any other real-world currency.

10 Countries with the Highest Median Income, March 2021 (PPP, Current Int$):

Luxembourg	$28,382
United Arab Emirates	$26,324
United States	$24,327
Norway	$23,835
Switzerland	$23,488
Austria	$21,572
Netherlands	$21,480
Iceland	$20,630
Denmark	$20,593
Canada	$20,550

​

Luxembourg is a vacation home for the wealthy, and the UAE and Norway are Petro-states. Switzerland is next closest to us, but the Swiss working week varies up to 45 hours depending on the employer, the most common being 42 hours.

 

[ralfy]

Productivity: output per hour worked

Productivity is measured as gross domestic product (GDP) per hour of work. This data is adjusted for inflation and differences in the cost of living between countries.

ourworldindata.org

 

[RetiredUSN]

Bernie was a teacher, " He taught Political Science at Hamilton College and Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government respectively. 'Sanders spent time in Israel, where he would live on a kibbutz, traditionally an agricultural community. Back home, Sanders did not stray away from that path on his way either. He moved to Vermont, initially working as a union carpenter and freelance journalist."
Why lie.

Here's What Bernie Sanders Did Before Politics

It is crazy to think that Sanders believed that he would not last long as a politician.

www.thethings.com

He was a associate teacher.........and not for very long.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sure enough! It's got out of control for sure.

What is out of control?
Bezos making the money he does?
You think this is Bezos fault? Amazon took over whole segments of retail. It has wiped out untold number of small businesses.
Why did that happen? Because Americans keep buying from Amazon.
So who is out of control?

 

[jpevans]

He was a associate teacher.........and not for very long.

Did he earn a paycheck? What about as a Union carpenter? I think you overstated that he didn't earn a paycheck until he was 40. Some folks wouldn't be as understanding as to call it misrepresentation.

 

[post]

Yep. It's proven to work out. Americans are top when it comes to overworked, and underpaid. Fixing this would make for a better quality of life.

I'm unsure if you're laughing at Americans being overworked, or you think that we lack the ability to do anything about it. It's palatable how little faith the right has in American progress. It really is. What's the point? If you're going to give up and just roll over, why bother proclaiming it?

Response from red states, where voters vote for harsher and less economically prosperous lives because they vote for the candidates owned by the largest donors to the G.O.P.:
crickets