Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally. [W:349]

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

You are thinking to small, we clearly need a congressional sub committee to out any subverse ideologies and octricize them from attaining gainful employment

Oh hell yes. And by all means a special prosecutor too.

Seriously, whatever happened to the live and let live principles in this country?

I think the KKK, neo-nazis, white supremacists and all groups like them are despicable, hateful, unAmerican, unChristian, and a lot of other adjectives I could attach to them, but they are such small fringe groups that what difference do they make so long as they are just spewing their garbage but not acting out on it? Get after them when they harm people materially or physically or deny people their rights, but otherwise they have the right to be who and what they are

I think groups like Antifa, BLM, Nation of Islam, Freedom From Religion, Occupy Wall Street, wacko environmentalists et al are unhelpful, sometimes dangerous, and a lot of other adjectives I could attach to them but they are such small fringe groups what difference do they make by spewing their garbage but not acting out on it? Get after them when they harm people materially or physically or deny people their rights, but otherwise they have the right to be who and what they are.

Those who organize or try to hurt people just because they don't like them or don't like what they stand for are no better than those they go after.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Is calling for ethnic cleansing evil?
If you answer yes to that then you are going to have to say the members of the new black panthers that say all white babies should be killed is also evil, right?

The tone suggests you think this is a gotcha question of some sort.

I had to look up what the ugly sounding phrase means.
Wiki offers a definition which would cover things which don't even necessarily involve coercion of violence

• "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic deliberate removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous."

Though the very next sentence gets into the usual methods of ethnic cleansing, which, of course, involve coercion and violence.


So, yeah, I'll be bold as **** and come out and admit that I think killing babies is badin general and evil as a part of a political platform.
I also hate Nazis and think Nazism is evil.

I'm edgy as ****.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

"free speech" does not mean speech free of consequences.

It just means that the govt isn't going to shut down speech.

There's never been a guarantee that your fellow Americans would like what you do with your free speech.

Trying to use social media to get someone fired for being photographed at a rally, is pretty damn un-American. I can see if they are sporting swastikas, but many pictured were simply there. No proof of their ideology.

 

[X Factor]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Doxxing is also non violent, but the critics are not evening praising it for that fact. How would they suggest people oppose these scum bags?

Let me ask you this. What larger good does taking someone's livelihood away do? Hell, I've seen it argued that ISIS terrorists need job opportunities as part of an overall plan to deal with them. Even convicted felons get job training because a job is about more than just making money. Make it so they can't work and they become even more embittered and isolated (but, they're Nazis so who cares, right?). Ok, so let's say you personally can insure that none of these guys will ever work a job again, now we get to support them. That's a good thing?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

No one sought these people out and exposed their privacy.
These people willingly and intentionally took part in a PUBLIC Nazi rally.
The ****ers were throwing Nazi salutes to a ****ing Nazi flag—a foreign ****ing flag—in front of cameras, God and everybody.

Posting photos of a public event is quite acceptable.
That's part and parcel of the "public" part of a public event.

I didn't take issue with merely posting photos of a public event, clearly you didn't read my post before responding to it.

Trying to use social media to get someone fired for being photographed at a rally, is pretty damn un-American. I can see if they are sporting swastikas, but many pictured were simply there. No proof of their ideology.

Some of those being "outed" as Nazi's, those being fired or receiving death threats, are already turning out to be false allegations, like with Kyle Quinn.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html

This is why making lists, doxxing and "punch a Nazi" are bad ideas, since those who get to decide who is a Nazi, those who seek to apply intent where none is stated, will get it wrong.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Some of those being "outed" as Nazi's, those being fired or receiving death threats, are already turning out to be false allegations, like with Kyle Quinn.

This is why making lists, doxxing and "punch a Nazi" are bad ideas, since those who get to decide who is a Nazi, those who seek to apply intent where none is stated, will get it wrong.

Something CC quoted from John Adam's in another thread today rings clear in relation to this story you just posted. Going to repost it here, giving credit to CC:

"It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, 'whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,' and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever."

 

[X Factor]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Trying to use social media to get someone fired for being photographed at a rally, is pretty damn un-American. I can see if they are sporting swastikas, but many pictured were simply there. No proof of their ideology.

True, somebody "innocent" could easily be caught up in this, but **** em, these are Nazis!!!!! Collateral damages just shows our commitment to vanquishing them.

 

[Fletch]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Thank you for your concession. Sanders is a self described socialist. Where are the American marxists, Fletch.

If the fringe right are fascists, what are the fringe left?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Did you not see who I quoted? PirateMk1. In response to his opinion that shaming Nazis will create some bad negative backlash effect.
I claim that seems unlikely considering we shame, remove from jobs/prevent, etc., all sorts of people, including actual Nazi Germans, and have for decades, and there has been no big negative change. It's all bullying, so I agree it does have negative elements in *every* case. But that's the status quo.

We also gave the Nazis trials, helped de-nazify and rebuild Germany. People who fear being treated unfairly or brutally, probably do so because that's how they think enemies should be treated. Our president said he would bring back torture. It appears some Americans are not very well educated on democratic values.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

So the white supremacists just standing there gives the other group the right to attack them with violence because it is a moral imperative?

Why are you comparing the people at this rally to Germany in the 1940s?

Reread my post. I said there was no reason to use mass violence or any violence. They do have moral cause to counter protest and it is their right

 

[Visbek]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

If I may.....

" has suggested that Reddit’s ban is rooted in r/altright members attempting to dox the individual who punched white nationalist Richard Spencer on Inauguration Day, after video of the incident went viral."

That's a criminal assault. (I would punch that nazi myself, but that is a crime) Outing someone who broke the law is doxing?

1) Yes. If you think you know the criminal, you notify the police, not the entire planet with an accusation on r/altright.

2) Oddly enough, the alt-right community misidentified several people as the assailant, including a man who was dead for over a year on the day Spencer was assaulted. Did I mention you should go to the police?

3) That was hardly the only example of doxing there, that was just the last straw.

SPLC is a hack site with no credibility, it was CNN who threatened to dox the kid, having an individual threaten retaliation seems fair play, no?

I can find plenty of other sites with the same story. e.g. A Pro-Trump Neo-Nazi Group Just Threatened The Children Of CNN Reporters

That article contains other examples of alt-righters doxing journalists:
Trump Fans Dox ?Anti-Trump? Journalists - Vocativ

Activists:
I Got Doxxed After Giving a Donald Trump Supporter the Finger

Jews:
https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/10/...targeting-jewish-journalists-on-social-media/

They also have this "fun" habit of labeling Jews on social media by using parenthesis:
Understanding the Alt-Right?s Jew Parentheses

There is also apparently an entire section on DS dedicated to doxing. Again, I will not give them traffic, but I'm pretty sure it's not about defending themselves from the practice.

As a reminder: HanSoloA**hole isn't a "kid," he is an adult. Oh, and CNN? They didn't make death threats to HSA and his family. DS did.

Milo is neither a racist or a nazi so not sure why you lumped him in with this, oh wait, that's the current play to attach anyone who is right of center with nazis.

Milo is undoubtedly part of the alt-right, and has repeatedly acted as an apologist for the more extreme wings of the alt-right, including white supremacists and anti-semites. He also helped form the template for alt-right "activism," which (as typified by GamerGate and attacks on Leslie Jones) involves doxing, and instigating massive waves of harassment on his targets.

I do realize that the hard-core white supremacists view Milo as a degenerate Jewish homosexual... and that was before he bragged about being a pedophile. Still, he's pretty much in their corner.


And let's add a few more examples
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2...tice-so-much-hes-trying-to-dox-a-rape-victim/
https://www.cnet.com/news/taking-trolls-to-court-lawsuit-targets-the-daily-stormer/
https://www.adl.org/blog/online-harassment-extremists-ramp-up-trolling-doxxing-efforts
http://www.metro.us/news/big-stories/trump-supporters-publish-personal-information-antifa-doxxing
http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-br...-mobs-to-threaten-dox-and-troll-trump-critics

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

I dunno, do BLM and Antifa support genocide?

BLM and Antifa are not the same. While there are people who associate with BLM who get violent, they are in the minority. BLM itself does not condone violence, just civil disobedience at times. Antifa condones violence as a means unto and end. There is a difference.

And as for the majority of White Supremacists, they probably don't engage in violence unless coming head to head with a group like Antifa. But their views are reprehensible.

So as an employer I wouldn't hire a white supremacist/separatist because of their views. I wouldn't hire a member of Antifa because they tend to resort to violence. Being BLM isn't going to stop me from hiring someone.

All that said, I am not a fan of this shaming picture campaign. Too many unknowns and I can see it getting out of hand.

 

[Visbek]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Doxxing is also non violent, but the critics are not evening praising it for that fact. How would they suggest people oppose these scum bags?

Doxxing routinely results in all sorts of harassment, including death threats and even swatting. It isn't the same as punching someone in the face, but there is no question that -- no matter who is doing it -- the goal is to cause some kind of social harm. Again, another reason why I'm ambivalent about using this practice against white supremacists.

 

[polgara]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Oh hell yes. And by all means a special prosecutor too.

Seriously, whatever happened to the live and let live principles in this country?

I think the KKK, neo-nazis, white supremacists and all groups like them are despicable, hateful, unAmerican, unChristian, and a lot of other adjectives I could attach to them, but they are such small fringe groups that what difference do they make so long as they are just spewing their garbage but not acting out on it? Get after them when they harm people materially or physically or deny people their rights, but otherwise they have the right to be who and what they are

I think groups like Antifa, BLM, Nation of Islam, Freedom From Religion, Occupy Wall Street, wacko environmentalists et al are unhelpful, sometimes dangerous, and a lot of other adjectives I could attach to them but they are such small fringe groups what difference do they make by spewing their garbage but not acting out on it? Get after them when they harm people materially or physically or deny people their rights, but otherwise they have the right to be who and what they are.

Those who organize or try to hurt people just because they don't like them or don't like what they stand for are no better than those they go after.

Greetings, AlbuOwl. :2wave:

:agree: Well said! I well remember the riots that took place at Kent State, because they happened close to where I live. Those riots weren't because one group of people disagreed with other groups like we're seeing today - tey were protesting the war! The sad thing about those times was that the paid professional instigators of the violence got the college students all riled up with fiery rhetoric, then quietly snuck away so they couldn't be identified, and those that died were not smart enough to realize they'd been set up to be the scapegoats!

The same thing appears to be happening today because someone is apparently masterminding this current violence to further their own agenda, and since it can happen anywhere in this country on any given day, there's evidently lots of money behind it! :thumbdown:

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

BLM and Antifa are not the same. While there are people who associate with BLM who get violent, they are in the minority. BLM itself does not condone violence, just civil disobedience at times. Antifa condones violence as a means unto and end. There is a difference.

And as for the majority of White Supremacists, they probably don't engage in violence unless coming head to head with a group like Antifa. But their views are reprehensible.

So as an employer I wouldn't hire a white supremacist/separatist because of their views. I wouldn't hire a member of Antifa because they tend to resort to violence. Being BLM isn't going to stop me from hiring someone.

All that said, I am not a fan of this shaming picture campaign. Too many unknowns and I can see it getting out of hand.

IIRC, I saw in another thread that someone was mistaken of being a part of the white nationalist rally. So yeah, this is not good for anyone.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

IIRC, I saw in another thread that someone was mistaken of being a part of the white nationalist rally. So yeah, this is not good for anyone.

Yep. I can also see photos being taking out of context or even edited to get back at people for revenge. No, the more I think about it the more I hate this idea.

 

[JamesBY]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

If the fringe right are fascists, what are the fringe left?

An equivalency that has no importance at all, Fletch.

Have you found a marxist yet?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

IIRC, I saw in another thread that someone was mistaken of being a part of the white nationalist rally. So yeah, this is not good for anyone.

His name is Kyle Quinn

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

It's not actually necessary to love Nazis (or Russians for that matter) to oppose this. I can't stand the worthless ****ers if for no other reason than that their mere existence is a convenient bludgeon to use against anyone on the right. That said, I'm not comfortable with this, really, because the main argument seems to be, they're Nazis so **** em. I totally understand the sentiment but once you decide that certain things are ok just because of what a person believes, that's a scary road. It's not far from then saying, well they're Nazis so so what if we take there right to assemble and speak away? I know people often argue that the "slippery slope" is not really a thing, but I disagree. Isn't it basically what progressivism is (and there are left and right progressives)? Taking incremental steps toward some over all goal? And once it becomes palatable to target people because of their believes, it's easier to justify it for other groups.

I don't think it's right for the govt to take their right of free speech or assembly away.
That absolutely should not happen.

When someone chooses to enter the pubic sphere for the express purpose of advocating and extolling, it's acceptable to pay attention to them, take pictures of them in the public sphere, and to post those pictures online.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Is calling for ethnic cleansing evil?

If you answer yes to that then you are going to have to say the members of the new black panthers that say all white babies should be killed is also evil, right?

Of course it's evil. It's always evil. If course I would condemn the BP for that. Why wouldn't i?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

It's not actually necessary to love Nazis (or Russians for that matter) to oppose this. I can't stand the worthless ****ers if for no other reason than that their mere existence is a convenient bludgeon to use against anyone on the right. That said, I'm not comfortable with this, really, because the main argument seems to be, they're Nazis so **** em. I totally understand the sentiment but once you decide that certain things are ok just because of what a person believes, that's a scary road. It's not far from then saying, well they're Nazis so so what if we take there right to assemble and speak away? I know people often argue that the "slippery slope" is not really a thing, but I disagree. Isn't it basically what progressivism is (and there are left and right progressives)? Taking incremental steps toward some over all goal? And once it becomes palatable to target people because of their believes, it's easier to justify it for other groups.

Did somebody in the thread argue neo Nazis should lose their freedom of speech or right to assemble? I don't think that at all. I also oppose torture, yes, even for neo nazis in all situations. I have no problem respecting the basic rights of people I oppose.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

Everyone already does oppose them. Most times only a few dozen show up for these types of rallies, they have their little march and they crawl back under the rocks from whence they came. Here they sent out a call and Nazis from around the country flowed into Virginia. Even with that there was only a couple hundred. They are insignificant. They get more exposure when a violent confrontation happens.

Well things have changed with President Mcregister and ban Muslims, we have too many legal immigrants, and Mexico is sending us rapists in office

 

[Renae]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

What do you think of this message?

View attachment 67221332

Only if we do the same fo rthe Antifa assholes.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

The tone suggests you think this is a gotcha question of some sort.

I had to look up what the ugly sounding phrase means.
Wiki offers a definition which would cover things which don't even necessarily involve coercion of violence

• "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic deliberate removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous."

Though the very next sentence gets into the usual methods of ethnic cleansing, which, of course, involve coercion and violence.


So, yeah, I'll be bold as **** and come out and admit that I think killing babies is badin general and evil as a part of a political platform.
I also hate Nazis and think Nazism is evil.

I'm edgy as ****.

Yeah, he asked like he assumed I would think ok if black people committed genocide against whites. Why would any decent person think that right

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: Do you know me? I was at a white supremacists' rally.

1/3 says yes is alarming.