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Could/should Trump order the military to discipline Vindman

RaleBulgarian said:
Apparently you know squat about the military.

Being fired from a White House position by the president is a career ender. Whatever hopes the Vindman brothers had of one day reaching flag officer rank is gone. And they did nothing wrong. Except piss off an utterly corrupt POS president by doing their sworn duty.
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LTC Vindman will enter the Army War College this year as he was scheduled to do on the termination of his being detailed to the WH NSC. Vindman was scheduled to complete his tour in the WH in July, as assigned by the Army. Army placed the LTC on the War College track two years ago and he remains on it which means he has stars in his future -- probably at least 2 of 'em.

Army detailed Vindman to the WH from the Office of the Joint Chiefs where the LTC was Russia advisor to the chairman, JCS. The present CJCS Mark Milley was Army chief of staff when Vindman was detailed to the WH in 2018. So now that Trump found this out he's ticked at Gen. Milley too which is not a good idea given Milley in special forces left a trail of broken enemy necks across Afghanistan. All I'm saying of course is that Milley is one of the toughest guys in the business of national defense and security. Milley and Mattis.
 
Of course he should. That's what makes him a mafia boss.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Evidence to support your claims? Evidence that the whistleblower didn't have the proper clearance?

And again, what classified information did he supposedly leak?
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If the WB exists and had proper clearance, he would have had first hand knowledge, not second hand knowledge.
 
apdst said:
If the WB exists and had proper clearance, he would have had first hand knowledge, not second hand knowledge.
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If the whistleblower doesn't exist, then Vindman didnt leak anything.

If the whistleblower exists, but didn't have the clearance to see the information, it is unlikely that the IG would have found the report credible.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
If the whistleblower doesn't exist, then Vindman didnt leak anything.

If the whistleblower exists, but didn't have the clearance to see the information, it is unlikely that the IG would have found the report credible.
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Vindman is the WB, which means he also perjured himself when he said he didn't know who the WB is.
 
apdst said:
Vindman is the WB, which means he also perjured himself when he said he didn't know who the WB is.
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Again, evidence to support your claim?

If Vindman was the whistleblower, then he didn't leak anything. You don't get to have it both ways.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Again, evidence to support your claim?

If Vindman was the whistleblower, then he didn't leak anything. You don't get to have it both ways.
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WB's aren't allowed to leak classified material.
 
PirateMk1 said:
The Newts advise was bad. You hit fast, you hit hard, and you pursue with ferocity. The tools the swamp has are dependent on their control of the state, and their fiefdoms within. Trump should have taken his catch phase to heart, "You're fired", and gutted the upper echelon and creating power vacuums. Creating the power vacuum does several things. One it takes the heads off of the various fiefdoms. 2 like vacuums in nature, they tend to be filled, thereby identifying your next targets. 3. The process of filling the previous vacuum creates causes chaos and disunity amongst your targets thereby weakening the overall response to you. 4. The chaos is a smokescreen with which one can maneuver operationally to isolate and neutralize the various competing factions, and to build your powerbase while simultaneously weakening the overall response.

Despite not knowing the extent of the DS he should have set the tone and been far more aggressive.
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Agreed. Trump should have cleaned house from day one. Sure, there would have been some squawks, but so what? The people that do the squawking against Trump would anyway, regardless of what he does. Hell, they've actually invented **** to squawk against Trump about.

thehill.com › opinion › white-house › 449206-fbi-warned-early-and-...
FBI, warned early and often that Manafort file might be fake ...
Jun 19, 2019 - Sources told investigators that Manafort was paid only by wire transfers and that the 'black cash ledger' was not authenticated.
​

And how was it presented?

www.cbsnews.com › video › black-ledger-raises-questions-about-paul-...
"Black ledger" raises questions about Manafort's Ukraine ties ...
Sources tell the Associated Press that Donald Trump's campaign chairman, Paul ... A handwritten ledger shows the party also set aside millions of dollars in ...

www.washingtontimes.com › news › may › paul-manafort-russia-cons...
Paul Manafort Russia conspiracy rejected by Mueller report ...
May 19, 2019 - Paul Manafort is in prison for tax fraud, leaving behind a series of unproven ... of 2016 in stories revolving around the infamous “black ledger.”.
​

So more made up stuff about Trump to further the continue and constant smear campaign against him.

Oh How Hum. How Democrat's, leftists, and the Deep State play politics. Time to use the same level of malevolence against them for a change.
 
apdst said:
The WB went to Schiffty's staff before going to the IG.
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Evidence that he leaked any classified info to Schiff's staff?

Evidence that Schiff's staff didn't have clearance?

What makes you think anything in the whistleblower report was classified in the first place?
 
independentusa said:
Could/should this president or any preident order the military to dicipline someone for what is obviously political reasons. Vindman was subpoenaed to come to the House and testify. As a military officer he had no right to refuse and even the president could not stop him from doing so. He testified to what he heard on the phone call to the best of his ability and seemed to have no axe to grind. Now he has been removed from his position, which in itself violates the laww, but neither the president or the GOP care about the law. Now trump is suggesting that the military should bring charges against Vindman, for what, no one really knows. But Could or should this president go ahead and force by order the military to discipline Vindman or anyone?
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Vindman was on the NSC, transferring him to another job, I don't have a problem with. Beyond that, I do. The NSC serves the president at the discretion of the president. It's always been that way. I've held many jobs during my military career, I also been transferred from one job to another at the discretion of my CO or OIC. As for discipline, should, no. Could, I doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

DA assigns you to a unit, but what job or where you work in that unit is up to those in charge of the unit.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Those links didn't answer any of my questions.

Nor do they support your claims.

Would you like to try again?
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Sure they do. You're just trying to lie your way out, again.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
No, they didn't. You know my post is still here, right?

We can all see it. Gaslighting isn't going to help you here.
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I proved that 1) the WB went to Shiffty's staff before going to the IG and 2) the phone call was classified which means 3) the WB leaked classified material to unauthorized recipients.

Good luck trying to lie you way out of this wet paper sack.
 
apdst said:
I proved that 1) the WB went to Shiffty's staff before going to the IG and 2) the phone call was classified which means 3) the WB leaked classified material to unauthorized recipients.

Good luck trying to lie you way out of this wet paper sack.
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You did not prove that the phone call was classified. But even if we take your assumptions as truth...

You did not prove that the whistleblower shared any classified material to Schiff's staff. But even if we take your assumptions as truth...

You did not prove that Schiff's staff was "unauthorized" to receive that information.
 
Tangmo said:
LTC Vindman will enter the Army War College this year as he was scheduled to do on the termination of his being detailed to the WH NSC. Vindman was scheduled to complete his tour in the WH in July, as assigned by the Army. Army placed the LTC on the War College track two years ago and he remains on it which means he has stars in his future -- probably at least 2 of 'em.

Army detailed Vindman to the WH from the Office of the Joint Chiefs where the LTC was Russia advisor to the chairman, JCS. The present CJCS Mark Milley was Army chief of staff when Vindman was detailed to the WH in 2018. So now that Trump found this out he's ticked at Gen. Milley too which is not a good idea given Milley in special forces left a trail of broken enemy necks across Afghanistan. All I'm saying of course is that Milley is one of the toughest guys in the business of national defense and security. Milley and Mattis.
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Because Vindman was already being groomed for future assignments with greater responsibility/prestige and possible promotions, does not mean his being fired by POTUS will be ignored. At the senior officer level politics is very important. In some ways as important as how well an officer does their actual job.

Maybe a few years or so from now, Vindman will be recommended by a flag officer selection board and that recommendation will make it to the desk of a different POTUS, and that president will see fit to nominate Vindman to the Senate for confirmation. If that happens, great, but I would not count on it.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Because Vindman was already being groomed for future assignments with greater responsibility/prestige and possible promotions, does not mean his being fired by POTUS will be ignored. At the senior officer level politics is very important. In some ways as important as how well an officer does their actual job.

Maybe a few years or so from now, Vindman will be recommended by a flag officer selection board and that recommendation will make it to the desk of a different POTUS, and that president will see fit to nominate Vindman to the Senate for confirmation. If that happens, great, but I would not count on it.
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LTC Vindman was not "fired." Vindman has been assigned by Army to the Office of the JCS since 2015. In mid 2018 Army detailed Vindman to the White House NSC, for two years. Vindman was on track for the Army War College when he went to the WH and that has not changed, so the LTC will enter the War College later this year. Vindman presently is physically back in the Office of the JCS which is his assignment since 2015 and where he continues to advise the chairman on Russia.

Pentagon fully supports LTC Vindman. It is highly likely the LTC will advance to colonel after the War College and then further after that. Indeed an officer such as Alexander Vindman typically retires as a 2-star at the least. As a commissioned officer sworn to the Constitution LTC Vindman illustrates how being a commissioned officer of the military can enable the person to continue to serve despite the displeasure of the president. A major factor is that Trump took his oath to the Constitution then he wiped his ass with it in a same day turnaround.
 
independentusa said:
Could/should this president or any preident order the military to dicipline someone for what is obviously political reasons. Vindman was subpoenaed to come to the House and testify. As a military officer he had no right to refuse and even the president could not stop him from doing so. He testified to what he heard on the phone call to the best of his ability and seemed to have no axe to grind. Now he has been removed from his position, which in itself violates the laww, but neither the president or the GOP care about the law. Now trump is suggesting that the military should bring charges against Vindman, for what, no one really knows. But Could or should this president go ahead and force by order the military to discipline Vindman or anyone?
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It was done to General McChrystal by Obama, so why not?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Because Vindman was already being groomed for future assignments with greater responsibility/prestige and possible promotions, does not mean his being fired by POTUS will be ignored. At the senior officer level politics is very important. In some ways as important as how well an officer does their actual job.

Maybe a few years or so from now, Vindman will be recommended by a flag officer selection board and that recommendation will make it to the desk of a different POTUS, and that president will see fit to nominate Vindman to the Senate for confirmation. If that happens, great, but I would not count on it.
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I recall the Col. who commanded our HQ and HQ battalion and how he got his star at the War College as a Brigadier General Officer. If I told you his name, I could lay money that no Democrat knows his name. And he rose to 4 star rank. Vindman is simply barely a Flag rank officer. He admits he is nothing special.

To help the forum out, he was a Lt General in Vietnam. In Europe he was considered the Patton in Germany for his leadership qualities.

HE commanded TRACON due to his Brilliance. The wars are still won using his fashion of war.


Who can name him?
 
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