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Could/should Trump order the military to discipline Vindman

independentusa said:
And just how did Vindman violate the UCMJ, he didn't. that would not matter to Trump who sees anyone who is not totally loyal to him as the enemy. And yes there is a law against what trump iis doing, but no one, the GOP, will stop him.
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He circumvented his chain of command and he leaked classified information.
 
danielpalos said:
"leaked classified information to an inspector general"?
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Wrong. Vindman said he wasn't the whistleower, and that he didn't know who the whistle blower is.
 
trouble13 said:
Not only that but his management style is to surround himself with contray viewpoints. He probably viewed it as advantage to have people that disagree with him advising him.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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Satire?
 
apdst said:
Violation of the Espionage Act.
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So telling what yo know about an illegal phone call is espionage. And do not try and tell us it was not an illegal call with Quid Pro Quo as Cruz sais it was and that all of the GOP knew it was. Pitiful
 
independentusa said:
So telling what yo know about an illegal phone call is espionage. And do not try and tell us it was not an illegal call with Quid Pro Quo as Cruz sais it was and that all of the GOP knew it was. Pitiful
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Leaking classified material is a crime. Obama prosecuted lots of whistle blowers.
 
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marke said:
Obama fired Petraeus and threatened him to keep quiet about Benghazi. Petraeus was no dummy. He knew if he crossed Obama he could be recalled to face court martial and lose his pension. Obama had him over a barrel.
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That must be in the Book of Revelation.
 
independentusa said:
Could/should this president or any preident order the military to dicipline someone for what is obviously political reasons. Vindman was subpoenaed to come to the House and testify. As a military officer he had no right to refuse and even the president could not stop him from doing so. He testified to what he heard on the phone call to the best of his ability and seemed to have no axe to grind. Now he has been removed from his position, which in itself violates the laww, but neither the president or the GOP care about the law. Now trump is suggesting that the military should bring charges against Vindman, for what, no one really knows. But Could or should this president go ahead and force by order the military to discipline Vindman or anyone?
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Could he? Sure, there would be plenty of things his command structure could discipline him for. If nothing else, there’s always the good ole “conduct unbecoming an officer”.

Should he? No.
 
PirateMk1 said:
I agree with that assessment, to a point. Unfortunately Trump has a somewhat mercurial personality and that hinders him a bit. Under the circumstances he has done fine. He had just an opportunity to do much better.
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As Conrad Black once said he is a strange cat. He learned to do that over time because he found that when those who sit across the table in a deal do not understand him and what he was going for he can often take them good and hard. In some ways this is how magicians work, Trump wants others to be looking in the wrong direction when he is working. This is also about Trumps need for fun.
 
Trump recognizes he hasn't any realistic of effective say because LTC Vindman carried out his duties properly which means there is no violation of the UCMJ.

Trump said as much today of LTC Vindman.


"We sent him on his way to a much different location, and the military can handle him any way they want," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "Gen. Milley has him now. I congratulate Gen. Milley. He can have him."

Gen. Mark Milley is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Asked specifically if the Pentagon should pursue further action against Vindman, Trump said it would be "up to the military."

Trump suggests military should consider additional discipline for Vindman
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So that's a no. There's no reason to "punish" the LTC nor "should" Vindman be punished as he did nothing wrong.

LTC Vindman is back at the Pentagon with the chairman of the JCS which is where Vindman has been assigned by the Army since 2015 as Russia adviser to the chairman JCS. In 2018 Army detailed LTC Vindman to the White House National Security Council for Ukraine, Russia, Eurasia and presently Vindman's "much different location" is back at the Pentagon and once again in the Office of the chairman JCS to which he continues to be assigned.

In other words Vindman is safe at home after he crossed home plate in a walk standing up. That's because LTC Vindman is a stand up officer and Pentagon has always supported him in its public statements. After all the LTC hit one out of the park didn't he.
 
I think it would be beyond stupid for Trump to push for punishment, he won, they lost, be happy and move on.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Those who serve at the pleasure of the President serve at the pleasure of the President. If citizens dont like that pleasure then they know what to do.
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Military members are not appointees and do not serve at the pleasure of the president. The president for any reason, or no reason can dismiss appointees. He does not have the same power over government employees, which includes military members. For a military member to be punished or removed from service, there must be justification under the UCMJ.

Vindman violated no lawful regulation or order.

Trump ****ed both Vindman brother careers enough by firing them from their White House jobs.

If he tried to further harm them by directing their immediate commanders to kick them out, that action would go so far over the line that Trump’s already shaky view among the military would be absolutely wrecked.
 
US&THEM said:
Patraeus started banging that chick and f’d himself in the process
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Petraeus exposed himself to the gal journalist in more ways than one when he slipped his classified stuff to her in a designated combat area. It's a serious violation so Petraeus knows he escaped a close call with the slammer.

Trump's present pardoning mood of injustice would likely exempt Petraeus of any clemency or mercy although we can expect Trump to scrub the records of some of the generals and admirals that were caught with their pants down during Obama's two terms. Back then for instance the admiral in command of the nuclear arsenal was caught cheating at poker so OB had to "ask" the guy to resign and retire which he did do. Word's out in Washington Trump wants to purge the negative record of a general or admiral or two that had to sign out during the OB presidency for improprieties or outright bad judgements. That was almost a dozen of 'em.

Looks too like since Trump doesn't have the bal, er, brass to "fire the generals" as he said he would during his campaign he's going to purify the records of some of 'em in an attempt to kiss up to the military brass. While Trump has the authority to do that it won't improve Trump's groundhog's level of non standing with the military chiefs and commanders through the chain of command at home and globally.
 
Captain Adverse said:
He doesn't have to suggest anything. He is the CinC of the Armed Forces. If he could find a code in the UCMJ to fit, he can order a courts-martial.

He can also do non-judicial "punishments" like a letter to his file.

But no, I don't think he should, although I imagine he'd think it was okay to do.

IMO removal from the NSC was sufficient. Just put the man (and his brother) "out-to-pasture" as a Division staff officer, or maybe at some recruiting command...and leave well-enough alone.
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You make the president directing military discipline seem easy/simple. It is not.

Any president taking it upon himself to reach far down the chain of command, ordering charges/punishment for military members who he thinks (very loosely using that word for what happens between Trump’s ears) hurt him by telling the truth will face immediate, and very vocal blowback from every veterans support organization and veteran in America. And he will deserve everything that comes to him.
 
Captain Adverse said:
You can repeat this nonsense all you want. Removal from the NSC is not a "punishment."

Vindman was not elected to that post, promoted into it, nor have any claim as a civil service "job" he tested for and was hired to do.

All members serve at the pleasure of the President. It is HIS advisory Council. If he doesn't like someone on it, he has both the RIGHT, and the Authority to remove and replace them. At will.

As I've said before; Vindman has not been "punished." He retains all military rank and privileges, he has not been "fined," none of his awards have been taken from him. He has simply been removed from the PRESIDENT'S advisory council.
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Apparently you know squat about the military.

Being fired from a White House position by the president is a career ender. Whatever hopes the Vindman brothers had of one day reaching flag officer rank is gone. And they did nothing wrong. Except piss off an utterly corrupt POS president by doing their sworn duty.
 
longview said:
I think it would be beyond stupid for Trump to push for punishment, he won, they lost, be happy and move on.
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LTC Vindman's revelations led to Trump's impeachment and kangaroo trial in the Senate where Adam Schiff spoke articulately and eloquently in the interests of the United States v Trump.

Putin-Trump.

Senate Republicans revealed themselves in the process and decision as wholly owned livestock of Vladimir Putin Undertakings Inc. Putin owns his own parliament so with Trump it's monkey see monkey do.

People's mood and attitude toward Putin-Trump & Rowers has become uncharacteristically harsh since. The impeachment and the Trump Monkey Trial has resulted in the gloves being taken off by both sides. This is because the worse Trump makes things the worse Trump gets and we haven't seen nuthin of him yet. Things are only going to get worse. But only up to a point that will be the breaking point at which time and circumstances Trump will be a goner.
 
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