cop acquitted of murder captured on video

[Thumper39]

This may get you killed...

But, hey, go ahead...

Read my other post.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

In my professional opinion-based on what I saw,the cop wanted to shoot the guy and put him in a no win situation. While a jury found "reasonable doubt" a civil jury should fillet that cop and his employer. Its sad that the tax payers get hit but the cop needs to be sued in his "individual capacity" and if that means he is bankrupt, so be it.

There is no question the cop was rattled and struggling. I remember practicing those situations when qualifying to become an MP. We are so used to actors on TV delivering these great roles we lose site of how difficult and stressful the situation is for the average officer. I remember when I was in hostage negotiation training by the Oakland Swat Team. Even in a mock up situation I struggled with the felony stop and dealing with that exact situation. In my scenario when I had the guy remove his hands from his pockets he pulled a pistol and we were in a shoot out. I should have had him turn around before having him remove his hands from his pockets. Luckily every time I was killed it was in training not real life. I quickly realized you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Anyway.

I would not have shot until I saw a gun. Of course that is why I am not a cop. Training clearly showed me that if you wait until you are in danger it most likely will be too late.

I decided I could make more money doing plumbing work anyway. Plus I enjoy the satisfaction of fixing things or the smile on peoples faces after you remodel a kitchen or bath. With police work you too often are dealing with people at their worst.

 

[Maccabee]

Changing, contradictory orders just create confusion. That was straight-up murder.

No it wasn't. For one the cop who shot wasn't the one giving the orders. For another the guy reached behind his back and that's why he shot. The orders were messed up and there are better ways of going about it but at the end of the day, the shooting itself was justified.

 

[jaeger19]

No it wasn't. For one the cop who shot wasn't the one giving the orders. For another the guy reached behind his back and that's why he shot. The orders were messed up and there are better ways of going about it but at the end of the day, the shooting itself was justified.

Yeah.. not at all.

1. It was easily observable that there was no firearm in the persons back area when he laid down for the police officer
2. It was easily observable that there was no firearm in the persons side or front waistband area when the suspect sat up with his hands in the air.

There was NO indication of a firearm at all. And he didn't even reach to his back.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

No it wasn't. For one the cop who shot wasn't the one giving the orders. For another the guy reached behind his back and that's why he shot. The orders were messed up and there are better ways of going about it but at the end of the day, the shooting itself was justified.

You admit the orders were messed up. You admit that lack of following those messed up orders got the man killed. Had the officers not been trigger-happy idiots, that innocent citizen would be alive. You can't completely create the situation that leads a man's death and then call it justified. It was murder.

 

[Bodi]

No it wasn't. For one the cop who shot wasn't the one giving the orders. .

Then it was cinspiracy to commit murder...

but at the end of the day, the shooting itself was justified

Legally with some crap laws maybe... morally and common sensically it was an execution by some retarded trigger happy cops.

 

[jaeger19]

Then it was cinspiracy to commit murder...



Legally with some crap laws maybe... morally and common sensically it was an execution by some retarded trigger happy cops.

Legally there was no justification. Legally to use deadly force there has to be a reasonable belief that your life is in imminent danger of death or grave bodily injury.

No such justification exists here.

 

[Lerxst]

No matter how messed up everyone thinks this is, and it is messed up I agree, it's not murder. Murder is when you kill someone unlawfully and with premeditation. There has to be a culpable mental state. The officer swears he felt he was in danger for his life so he fired. Turns out he was wrong. Did he commit murder? No. Should he pay for his mistake? Absolutely. But a murder conviction is simply not warranted.

I agree with Turtle, a civil jury should have his ass, along with the department's. This guy will hopefully never be a cop anywhere ever again.

 

[Lerxst]

I will say I do not understand how they didn't convict him on a manslaughter charge. That's mind boggling.

 

[jaeger19]

No matter how messed up everyone thinks this is, and it is messed up I agree, it's not murder. Murder is when you kill someone unlawfully and with premeditation. There has to be a culpable mental state. The officer swears he felt he was in danger for his life so he fired. Turns out he was wrong. Did he commit murder? No. Should he pay for his mistake? Absolutely. But a murder conviction is simply not warranted.

I agree with Turtle, a civil jury should have his ass, along with the department's. This guy will hopefully never be a cop anywhere ever again.

Murder might fit:

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life

 

[hado117]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...quitted-in-the-shooting-of-daniel-shaver.html

The cop was charged with second-degree murder and reckless manslaughter.

Watch the video even if it bothers you. The murder occurs right around 17 minutes. It's in the article.

https://youtu.be/p1S8MVNyhGA

 

[OldFatGuy]

Self defense laws.. which police are bound to.

Self defense against who? Show me the applicable law of the state in question.

And I'd like to see, from you, how a self defense law bounds a police officer from not protecting his or her self.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Hmmm... you have a convoluted post.. but it appears that your information corroborates my statement. So thanks for that.

And yes.. I speak with knowledge.

"and whats ironic.. is that its a safer time, with less violence.. than almost at any other time in history. the police have LESS to fear now overall." Your words.

Nowhere in my post do I support your assertion that it is a safer time with less violence. Reread my post to you.

Frankly, you speak like someone who watches many episodes of police procedure TV shows, and who has a political agenda. Not someone with real life knowledge.

 

[FastPace]

I just tonight watched video--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8 <--of that cop executing that terrified young man on his knees. To say my heart was pumping and boiling over is an understatement.

And let me tell you something you military or former military or you cops. You can save me your empty canister head response about that's how one is trained, and the should have obeyed orders. It doesn't take to high of an IQ to get into the military or be a cop, you yahoos. Semper Fi Putin by the way. I wish I was there are armed with an assault rifle. Yeah one may be trained how to subdue a population--mentally challenged--that doe mean you don't have to question some aspects of your training.

Then I see this little. Girl. I too was once stopped by cops a few seconds (literally) after walking out my parents front door. But I was a grown damned adult. Raged filled me not fear like this little girl. If I was not running (the suspect they were looking for on fleeing on foot) then why was my heart beating a thousand miles an hour (cop's hand on my chest/heart) while I remained so calm. He didn't understand that I was once in the Marines and that calm was discipline, that heart pumping was rage ready to go for his throat and rip his nose off with my clenched teeth around it. I almost got cuffed until a sheriffs car pulled up and said I was not him.

Why in the hell do you have to have a young girl walking backwards with your guns drawn and aimed on her in the black of night, knowing the climate of fear some young people might have over cop shootings.

Oh yeah... "You're lucky to be in America the 'Land of the Free'" because in other countries you might actually get stopped and cuffed walking out your house, or gunned down with an assault rifle if you make one minor slip in terrified state as a cops yells at you like a Marine DI.

Did I say Semper Fi Putin and Mother Russia yet? Kiss my __ America.




I feel very bad for that young man that was executed in cold blood by that cop. Let me tell you f__ heads something. Over 20 years on crack cocaine and perfectly sober I would have handled that situation better than that cop. I would have been firm but even soft in voice to calm the young man when I recognized he was terrified. Terrified people may be prone to make more mistakes I don't want them to make. And I would have been faaaar more forgiving of his little slight mistake of trying to pull up his pants or whatever. I'm good enough and confident enough with a rifle in my shoulder that I don't need to pull a trigger until I actually see a gun in your hand and starting to be aimed at me. Believe will win in such a situation. So, I don't need to overreact like some imbecile in his Freshman year of high school.

And I feel very bad for this little girl too. I can see the sadness in her expression. Back when I was her age we were never treated by cops this way. But I can't tell that to people that never lived through the 1970s and early 1980s, they won't believe because they've heard from dip s__ like John Lewis that things have only gotten better. Know they haven't Satan. Only some things have. Some things have in fact deteriorated.







And you people out there in the Hampton's and other rich places on the East Coast with your s__ eating grins. Probably the money, lobbying, and orchestraters behind all this "police policy" meant to create state sponsored terrorism to let the little people know they best never raise their heads up and disobey the power. You keep at it we will one day become for you in your own backyards. Moving online, weapons at hunt, firing at house. Clip dropped, reload, repeat.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Well, well, well... he has a history of being investigated for unnecessary violence.

https://www.theroot.com/surprise-surprise-former-arizona-cop-who-killed-danie-1821227126

 

[OldFatGuy]

Knife throwing for defense is pure theatrical BS.

Says you with all your experience from violent confrontations. No doubt a source of your distrust and fear of police. (sarcasm off)

The real argument against throwing a knife is that it leaves one without a weapon, if the knife or knives are the sole weapon(s).

During real life confrontations the choice of weapons is dependent upon the circumstances. It is highly unlikely, from any distance that a 3" throwing knife will end any target's life. However it can be used to shock a target into inaction. Seeing a knife handle sticking out of one's chest, between the ribs, can be quite disconcerting. A rare occasion, however I personally enjoyed success with stopping a temporarily emotional disturbed individual swinging an ax indiscriminately, and he didn't die as he would have, had I use my sidearm. Unfortunately for him, the cocktail of PCP and a speedball, methedrine with heroin, induced a heart attack an hour later and he passed. Hallucinatory horse tranquilizers can be deadly to the user, especially when mixed with other hard illicit drugs.

I suggest you'd be more shocked by the damage I can accomplish with my Irish Blackthorn cane. Nothing theatrical about it. It is a deadly weapon, and ungoverned. Crippled old men walking with canes appear to be easy targets for predators. Crippled old women also. Sometimes the predator becomes the prey.

Or as one 86 year old woman said after she knocked a purse snatcher unconscious. "I was ready for him. I had two rolls of quarters in one my husband's old socks." Even tho she was having problems breathing after the incident, once she received some oxygen from EMT's who responded, she refused further medical attention, and gave the suspect a hard left in the face. The watching crowd that had gathered, applauded her.

 

[OldFatGuy]

So you looked up a bunch of stuff and decide I'm lying. LMAO, that's just convenience on your part. I've posted on here for years that I was a Park Ranger in Central Park and that we got training with the NYPD. I was also a park ranger for St. Louis County and got training from SLPD. And that DID include firearms training. (NY did not)

If you want to doubt my professional training, feel free, but I didnt invent it just to make you look bad.

LOL, you did that all by yourself.

I have no doubt you were a professional Park Ranger, but I also know for fact as a member of the NYPD, the NYPD never trained anyone outside of the NYPD how to use firearms, least of all, park rangers. I didn't have to look up anything. Experience as a poster doesn't prove veracity. Yawn.

 

[OldFatGuy]

No. you keep ignoring that finger-on-trigger, muzzle-on-target at close range gives enough time to identify a weapon before it is brought on target for firing.

NYPD training, warn and negotiate with potential target, if not responsive, acquire target, release safety, chamber round, fire for effect. In other words, shoot to kill. Sure, you were trained by the NYPD. ROFL

 

[jaeger19]

Self defense against who? Show me the applicable law of the state in question.

And I'd like to see, from you, how a self defense law bounds a police officer from not protecting his or her self.

umm self defense law allows a police officer to protect himself or herself.

Man..you have to work on your arguments.

 

[OldFatGuy]

here is the last I could find..

BCA Completes Investigation Into Justine Damond Shooting « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

You should have looked further:

Groups Pressure Hennepin Co. Att’y To Charge Cop In Woman’s Death « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

It is expected that the DA's office in the jurisdiction will bring charges in early January of 2018. As one ADA was quoted two months or so ago, "We want a thorough investigation so we can present an undefeatable prosecution." In other words, the DA's office has learned to respect the PBA attorneys.

 

[jaeger19]

"and whats ironic.. is that its a safer time, with less violence.. than almost at any other time in history. the police have LESS to fear now overall." Your words.

Nowhere in my post do I support your assertion that it is a safer time with less violence. Reread my post to you.

Frankly, you speak like someone who watches many episodes of police procedure TV shows, and who has a political agenda. Not someone with real life knowledge.

Yawn.. you need to read your own article.

 

[jaeger19]

You should have looked further:

Groups Pressure Hennepin Co. Att’y To Charge Cop In Woman’s Death « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

It is expected that the DA's office in the jurisdiction will bring charges in early January of 2018. As one ADA was quoted two months or so ago, "We want a thorough investigation so we can present an undefeatable prosecution." In other words, the DA's office has learned to respect the PBA attorneys.

You know.. you would have a lot more credibility if you stopped your insulting behavior on this board.

Your post didn't add anything substantial to what I linked to..

You do realize that "as one ADA quoted TWO MONTHS AGO".. refers to the same information that I provided right? :doh

 

[OldFatGuy]

Legally there was no justification. Legally to use deadly force there has to be a reasonable belief that your life is in imminent danger of death or grave bodily injury.

No such justification exists here.

More "I know the law." Look up the laws, and they differ in most states, but few require "reasonable belief of imminent death" or "threat of grave bodily injury" of a shooting officer. Thanks for the chuckles.

In many jurisdictions there are no laws controlling police shootings, only departmental policies and rules.

Do you want to reconsider your prior claim to having knowledge?

From a Supreme Court Decision:

"Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force."

There are dozens of cases whereby this decision was used to defend police officers who shot and killed unarmed felony suspects. There are dozens of cases which have used this decision to defend bounty hunters who have shot and killed fleeing unarmed felons. There are dozens of cases defending FBI and other federal police agents, including US Marshals, used deadly force to stop and kill known unarmed felons fleeing from arrest.

Do you want to reconsider your prior claim to having knowledge?

Both the Texas Rangers and the Arizona Rangers have standing orders to kill anyone in the process of unlawfully crossing the border into their respective states, on the basis of this decision.

Do you want to reconsider your prior claim to having knowledge?

We are not discussing morality, political agendas, right or wrong. We are discussing reality. "Probable cause" has no lawful definition. Definition varies by jurisdiction and circumstances.

Do you want to reconsider your prior claim to having knowledge?

 

[OldFatGuy]

Murder might fit:

"Do you want to reconsider your prior claim to having knowledge?" From which state law?

 

[OldFatGuy]

umm self defense law allows a police officer to protect himself or herself.

Man..you have to work on your arguments.

You need to learn about reality.