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cop acquitted of murder captured on video

Mr Person said:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...quitted-in-the-shooting-of-daniel-shaver.html

The cop was charged with second-degree murder and reckless manslaughter.

Watch the video even if it bothers you. The murder occurs right around 17 minutes. It's in the article.
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So, the cop orders a man reported to have a gun to lay face down in a hallway and instead the man reaches behind his back. It's a split second decision - is he reaching for a gun? By the time the cop actually sees a gun it's too late to react. The wrong response might get the cop killed.

The moral of the story is always follow the police's instructions.

There are some places in the country where the cops ought to just pull out and let the people there fend for themselves because they are reflexive in their hatred and condemnation of cops. They don't deserve police protection.
 
Sucks that the guy had such a problem following simple instructions.
 


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LowDown said:
So, the cop orders a man reported to have a gun to lay face down in a hallway and instead the man reaches behind his back. It's a split second decision - is he reaching for a gun? By the time the cop actually sees a gun it's too late to react. The wrong response might get the cop killed.

The moral of the story is always follow the police's instructions.

There are some places in the country where the cops ought to just pull out and let the people there fend for themselves because they are reflexive in their hatred and condemnation of cops. They don't deserve police protection.
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Lutherf said:
Sucks that the guy had such a problem following simple instructions.
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I suspect you'd be terrified, sobbing, and begging for your life as well. You'd be a puddle. This is a stress-free debate board so it's easy to make comments like that.

:shrug:


There is absolutely no way a citizen would be acquitted based on the same claim the cop used. People with the power of life or death over you should be held to a higher standard, not this low forgive-just-about-everything standard.
 
As an aside on this, last year I attended a week long pistol training class in northern Arizona. Our "homework" generally involved practicing certain moves and operations we'd studied during the day. Our instructors made special mention to tell us to make sure the curtains in our hotel rooms were closed when we practiced because if we didn't something like what you see in the video could happen.
 
Mr Person said:
I suspect you'd be terrified, sobbing, and begging for your life as well. This is a stress-free debate board so it's easy to make comments like that.

:shrug:
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No. I'd just follow instructions. Been there, done that (on both sides), still alive to talk about it.
 
Mr Person said:
I suspect you'd be terrified, sobbing, and begging for your life as well. You'd be a puddle. This is a stress-free debate board so it's easy to make comments like that.

:shrug:


There is absolutely no way a citizen would be acquitted based on the same claim the cop used. People with the power of life or death over you should be held to a higher standard, not this low forgive-just-about-everything standard.
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Funny the woman was able o follow them to the letter.
 
MaggieD said:
The travesty occurred when the cop was charged.
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When the guy reached behind with both hands I figured it was over for him. I have no idea why the cop hesitated so long at that point. The cop probably had the same thought going through his head and made a conscious decision not to put himself in that position again.
 
Mr Person said:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...quitted-in-the-shooting-of-daniel-shaver.html

The cop was charged with second-degree murder and reckless manslaughter.

Watch the video even if it bothers you. The murder occurs right around 17 minutes. It's in the article.
Click to expand...

Wow. As someone who's worked in the field for 17 years now, I find it absolutely mind-boggling that departments still hire and employ absolutely incompetent clowns like this one.

Thus suspects both could have been hooked up minutes before the shooting. The officer was literally psyching himself up for the shoot and drawing things out to an amazing degree, escalating the emotions utterly unnecessarily.

I've met some REALLY bad cops in my past, but I've never seen anything like this before.
 
Lutherf said:
When the guy reached behind with both hands I figured it was over for him. I have no idea why the cop hesitated so long at that point. The cop probably had the same thought going through his head and made a conscious decision not to put himself in that position again.
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Completely agree. How many thugs keep their weapons in the back in their waistbands? I don’t see why he was even charged.
 
The vast vast majority of human beings are utterly overrun by adrenaline, fight or flight response, etc, in situations like that. What someone being tough behind a keyboard might think they would do is only so very rarely what they actually do do if they are unfortunate enough to find themselves in such a position.

So, the usual defenders can defend. It's transparent.

:shrug:





Of course, in this situation it is profoundly stupid to think that if they guy actually had a gun and intended to kill the cop, he would cry, sob, beg for his life, and only try to use the gun when crawling towards the cop. He'd come out shooting because duh. He wouldn't shoot from the most disadvantageous position possible and he wouldn't have behaved the way he was behaving.

But yeah, defenders will always defend.
 
Mr Person said:
I suspect you'd be terrified, sobbing, and begging for your life as well. You'd be a puddle. This is a stress-free debate board so it's easy to make comments like that.

:shrug:


There is absolutely no way a citizen would be acquitted based on the same claim the cop used. People with the power of life or death over you should be held to a higher standard, not this low forgive-just-about-everything standard.
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Nice dodge. The man wasn't killed for sobbing, being terrified, or begging for his life. He was killed when he reached behind his back and the cop feared he was pulling out a gun (which he was reported to have).

But you're right. A man who is sobbing, looks terrified, and begs for his life ought to be able to shoot one cop at least, feebies, since he tugs at our heart strings so.

And you're also right about holding cops to a higher standard. Thus the cop should be expected to have super-human reflexes so that in the less than one tenth of a second he'd have to see the gun appearing from behind the man's back in the middle of a gun draw and having a round put in him he should be able to make an accurate assessment of threat.
 
MaggieD said:
Completely agree. How many thugs keep their weapons in the back in their waistbands? I don’t see why he was even charged.
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In a situation like that, responding to an armed suspect call, if you can't see their hands you could be in serious trouble. If you add in the fact that the guy was not following instructions that adds a whole second level of threat.

My first thought was that they could have cuffed him once he was prone but there was a door to screen left and the crossing hallway. Both of those, assuming they were uncleared, made such a move problematic. Calling the suspect forward was the right tactical move but the guy just couldn't or wouldn't pull his act together.
 
MaggieD said:
The travesty occurred when the cop was charged.
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Absolute nonsense. Did you watch the video? "Keep your legs crossed!" "Keep your hand up!" "Crawl toward me!" wtf? Indefensible. Cop needs to go to prison forever.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Absolute nonsense. Did you watch the video? "Keep your legs crossed!" "Keep your hand up!" "Crawl toward me!" wtf? Indefensible. Cop needs to go to prison forever.
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Well, sometimes "come here and I'll give you a cookie" doesn't work.
 
Lutherf said:
When the guy reached behind with both hands I figured it was over for him. I have no idea why the cop hesitated so long at that point. The cop probably had the same thought going through his head and made a conscious decision not to put himself in that position again.
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Of course: Twitch and die! Freedom!

Citizens lives are apparently forfeit if there's even a remote possibility that a cop could possibly maybe be in any danger whatsoever. lol. What a joke.
 
Lutherf said:
Well, sometimes "come here and I'll give you a cookie" doesn't work.
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Changing, contradictory orders just create confusion. That was straight-up murder.
 
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