Christian School Expels Girl for Wearing Rainbow Sweater on Her Birthday

[AProudLefty]

Everyone was racist at that time. That does not excuse states leaving and murdering Americans for slavery. That's extra racist, even for the time.

The Confederate flag was created as a symbol of slavery. That will never change. And there are no excuses.

The American flag was a symbol for freedom, despite them being slave owners.

 

[ecofarm]

The American flag was a symbol for freedom, despite them being slave owners.

The American flag was created as a symbol of freedom.

The Confederate flag was created as a symbol of slavery.

Doesn't matter what anyone was. It matters what the symbol was created for. That never goes away.

 

[AProudLefty]

The American flag was created as a symbol of freedom.

The Confederate flag was created as a symbol of slavery.

But freedom is not for women and black people.

 

[ecofarm]

But freedom is not for women and black people.

The US was and is racist and sexist. That's a fact. Always has been, still is. Fact. Indisputable.

That does not change what a symbol was created for.

 

[AProudLefty]

The US was and is racist and sexist. That's a fact. Always has been, still is. Fact. Indisputable.

That does not change what a symbol was created for.

Yep. The symbol was created for racist white men.

 

[ecofarm]

Yep. The symbol was created for racist white men.

The symbol was created to symbolize slavery and racism. That will never change. There are no excuses for employing that symbol. One can use their state flag. One can make their own. Employing a flag created to symbolize slavery and racism is and always will be racist.

 

[AProudLefty]

The symbol was created to symbolize slavery and racism. That will never change. There are no excuses for employing that symbol. One can use their state flag. One can make their own. Employing a flag created to symbolize slavery and racism is and always will be racist.

And yet the American symbol was not created for black people.

 

[ecofarm]

And yet the American symbol was not created for black people.

The American flag was created to symbolize freedom from monarchy and self governance. Was the US racist then? Yes. Is the US racist now? Yes. But that does not change what the flag was created for.

To fly a symbol of freedom is fine. To fly a symbol of slavery is racist.

 

[AProudLefty]

The American flag was created to symbolize freedom from monarchy and self governance. Was the US racist then? Yes. Is the US racist now? Yes. But that does not change what the flag was created for.

To fly a symbol of freedom is fine. To fly a symbol of slavery is racist.

Then the symbol has changed it's meaning for black people and women.

 

[ecofarm]

Then the symbol has changed it's meaning for black people and women.

This is why I started with the difference between something seen as a symbol by association (such as the rainbow being a symbol of gay rights - association, not creation) and something that is a symbol by creation. The former is subjective, the latter is never changing objective fact.

We don't draw lines on subjective interpretation. We should draw lines on objective reality.

Symbol by association = subjective.
Symbol by creation = never changing fact.

 

[AProudLefty]

This is why I started with the difference between something seen as a symbol by association (such as an American uniform being a symbol of America) and something that is a symbol by creation. The former is subjective, the latter is never changing objective fact.

We don't draw lines on subjective interpretation. We should draw lines on objective reality.

Yeah I understand your point. Symbols are both objective and subjective.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah I understand your point. Symbols are both objective and subjective.

Partially correct.

There are two kinds of symbols: A symbol by association and a symbol by creation. These are not mutually exclusive but we can never ignore or make go away the creation purpose of a symbol.

The purpose for which a symbol was created cannot be divorced from that symbol. It's objective fact. That same symbol can be a symbol by association of anything by anyone. Someone could claim, to them, it symbolizes aliens. Symbol by association, it's about aliens. Fine, that's an opinion.

The purpose of the creation, what the symbol was created to symbolize, is not subjective. It's not open to interpretation. It will never change. And it can never be ignored.

If someone claims the Swastika represents German heritage, it doesn't change what the symbol was created for. Same with the Confederate flag.

 

[AProudLefty]

Partially correct.

There are two kinds of symbols: A symbol by association and a symbol by creation. These are not mutually exclusive but we can never ignore or make go away the creation purpose of a symbol.

The purpose for which a symbol was created cannot be divorced from that symbol. It's objective fact. That same symbol can be a symbol by association of anything by anyone. Someone could claim, to them, it symbolizes aliens. Symbol by association, it's about aliens. Fine, that's an opinion.

The purpose of the creation, what the symbol was created to symbolize, is not subjective. It's not open to interpretation. It will never change. And it can never be ignored.

If someone claims the Swastika represents German heritage, it doesn't change what the symbol was created for. Same with the Confederate flag.

And people can reclaim it as their symbol, regardless of history. The Nazis adopted the symbol of Swastika as their own.

 

[ecofarm]

And people can reclaim it as their symbol, regardless of history. The Nazis adopted the symbol of Swastika as their own.

It's not the same ****ing symbol. The Buddhist symbol goes the other ****ing direction. The Nazis created the Swastika to represent Nazism.

 

[AProudLefty]

It's not the same ****ing symbol. The Buddhist symbol goes the other ****ing direction.

And? There are various forms of the cross. The Romans used the same symbol. Hence the Third Reich.

 

[Divine_Wind]

The mother did. Besides the school conceded by changing it to voluntary withdrawal.

So a mother's opinion makes something gay or not?

LOL - Dude, that's not a concession, that's a win. A "quit or be fired" decision. It's like a plea deal - pleading guilty, "voluntary withdrawal" and quitting means the person has little to no chance of filing a grievance. "She pleaded guilty/withdrew/quit of her own volition. No one forced her."

FWIW, anyone faced with "quit or be fired" and knows they are innocent should take the forced termination. Not only will they qualify for unemployment, but they can sue. Quitting means they get nothing.

 

[ecofarm]

And? There are various forms of the cross. The Romans used the same symbol. Hence the Third Reich.

The cross, as a symbol, was created to symbolize the sacrifice of Jesus. That will never change. The purpose of the creation of the cross as a symbol will never ever change.

People can say, to them, the cross symbolizes aliens. That does not change its purpose of creation. It does not change what the symbol means by creation.

Symbols mean a million different things by association. But they only mean one thing by creation.

 

[AProudLefty]

The cross, as a symbol, was created to symbolize the sacrifice of Jesus. That will never change. The purpose of the creation of the cross as a symbol will never ever change.

People can say, to them, the cross symbolizes aliens. That does not change its purpose of creation. It does not change what the symbol means by creation.

Symbols mean a million different things by association. But they only mean one thing by creation.

You know what's funny? The cross symbol was originally used by Egyptians. Same story.

 

[AProudLefty]

So a mother's opinion makes something gay or not?

LOL - Dude, that's not a concession, that's a win. A "quit or be fired" decision. It's like a plea deal - pleading guilty, "voluntary withdrawal" and quitting means the person has little to no chance of filing a grievance. "She pleaded guilty/withdrew/quit of her own volition. No one forced her."

FWIW, anyone faced with "quit or be fired" and knows they are innocent should take the forced termination. Not only will they qualify for unemployment, but they can sue. Quitting means they get nothing.

It will be on record if it's a forced termination.

 

[ecofarm]

You know what's funny? The cross symbol was originally used by Egyptians. Same story.

Go fly a Swastika and tell people it's "German heritage". See how that goes.

The Confederate flag is no different except we're racist enough to tolerate it.

 

[Divine_Wind]

It will be on record if it's a forced termination.

....and they can fight it. Now they can't because they voluntarily withdrew.

 

[AProudLefty]

....and they can fight it. Now they can't because they voluntarily withdrew.

Would it be worth it? No. They decided it's best to just leave the hateful school. The girl is way better off anyway.

 

[AProudLefty]

Go fly a Swastika and tell people it's "German heritage". See how that goes.

The Confederate flag is no different except we're racist enough to tolerate it.

Why would I care if they fly the Confederate flag? I don't assume those people who fly them are racists.

 

[Daisy]

The cross, as a symbol, was created to symbolize the sacrifice of Jesus. That will never change. The purpose of the creation of the cross as a symbol will never ever change.

People can say, to them, the cross symbolizes aliens. That does not change its purpose of creation. It does not change what the symbol means by creation.

Symbols mean a million different things by association. But they only mean one thing by creation.

The cross was a symbol used by pagans long before it became a symbol for Christendom...Hindus and Buddhists in India and China, and by the Persians, Assyrians, and Babylonians, all used the cross as an emblem for their religious and mystical purposes long before the Christian era...one reason I would not own/wear one...

 

[ecofarm]

Why would I care if they fly the Confederate flag? I don't assume those people who fly them are racists.

I'm not interested in excuses. I'm not interested in "but it means pink ponies to me". I'm interested in one thing: What was the symbol created for. People can take their subjective bs and shove it.