China shows why we needed to shut it all down for a month!

[independentusa]

China didn't take a strong position, and they covered it up until **** hit the fan.

They locked down Wuhan and did the same for the rest of the country and now they are back to near normal.

 

[marke]

So then what is the justification of killing elderly and vulnerable people for the convenience 'of hateful' potentially poor people?

The use of 'hateful' is BS in both cases...if the poor people's convenience isnt hateful, then neither is the mother's. Everybody needs to eat and have a roof over their heads and hopefully can keep working and stay healthy. Poor/potentially poor people and pregnant women have the exact same justifications (or 'conveniences' in pro-life' lingo)

If the country decides to go to work after a while because of necessity it will be stupid to claim people who go back to work to survive are doing so at the cost of making people get sick and die.

 

[marke]

You prefer aping what Hannity says. Great.

Hannity reports what he picks up through public sources, just like I do.

 

[Lursa]

If the country decides to go to work after a while because of necessity it will be stupid to claim people who go back to work to survive are doing so at the cost of making people get sick and die.

Same justification for women that need to have abortions for financial reasons or to keep their homes or keep their families secure and fed. To survive. So...not for 'convenience.' Out of necessity.

Please dont forget this reality in the future.

 

[marke]

No, China is now going back to near normal. Why, because they took action which our dear Trump is afraid to do.If trump had encouraged a country wide lockdown in January for just thirty days when he was told how serious this was, we would be like China and bback to near normal

Don't you just love it when all the amateur wannabe experts start coming out of the woodwork to criticize famous people for lacking the foresight in a developing emergency that the egoist pundits want people to believe they would not have lacked themselves?

 

[marke]

Same justification for women that need to have abortions for financial reasons or to keep their homes or keep their families secure and fed. To survive. So...not for 'convenience.' Out of necessity.

Please dont forget this reality in the future.

In one case we see there is a risk people may still get sick if the rest of the country goes back to work, even though those risks will at some point have to be taken whether any of us like it or not. In the other case we see the unborn baby must be killed, not because of danger of disease or nationwide economic destruction, but because the mother may be inconvenienced by the baby if it is born.

 

[maxparrish]

They locked down Wuhan and did the same for the rest of the country and now they are back to near normal.

That's not how it works here. A survey completed today shows that 25 percent of the workforce has been fired, laid off, or "furloughed". THAT is GREAT DEPRESSION level unemployment.

For better or worse, people must return to work in most places in the next week or two. It is imperative.

 

[Barnacle]

The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.

And who believes that? ... Apparently only people like you do ...

"... The evidence they present about COVID-19 contradicts official narratives. Stories on Chinese social media, censored or removed almost as soon as they appear, reveal how local governments cover up new cases and how hospitals are ordered to report new cases as normal flu or pneumonia. ..."

Coronavirus Pandemic: China’s Claim of No New Cases Is a Lie | National Review

 

[roberthughey]

The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.

China is a totalitarian government and it can do what it wants, when it wants to it's people.

In a free society you can't do that. The US is a free society.

 

[joko104]

Gee, it might have to do on how Aides vs Covid 19 is spread don't you think? That is one of the dumbest comparisons yet.

Gee, what a dumb response. HIV/AIDS is spread in many ways, not just unprotected sex and shared needles.

 

[Drawdown]

The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.

Just shut down blue cities for a month

 

[jpn]

Hannity has been right about a lot of things leftist pundits were completely wrong about, like the Trump/Russian collusion lie.

HANNITY, March 9: "This scaring the living hell out of people -- I see it, again, as like, let's bludgeon Trump with this new hoax."
HANNITY, March 18: "By the way, this program has always taken the coronavirus seriously. We've never called the virus a hoax."

He's extraordinary. He doesn't even pretend to exercise any kind of journalistic restraint. He just rants. I can't believe anyone takes him seriously.

 

[jpn]

It is comparable to some previous years' flu season mortality rates...that's what I wrote.

Yes. The difference being, of course, is that in previous years' flu seasons we didn't need to shut down the entire country to keep it to "just" 80,000.

 

[justabubba]

One advantage of my plan is that we don't have to focus as much on helping the economy and can focus almost exclusively on healthcare. Also, when we have future waves of this virus, since most of the population is immune, this will limit the spread, while other countries where most of the population isn't immune will need to quarantine over and over.

Also, the ruin and damage to countless millions must be considered when thinking about an economic shutdown for months on end. If we fall into depression, we will lose a decade of economic progress and will have a generation of destitute. This financial ruin will also hurt our ability to properly care for the vulnerable and elderly and fund our healthcare system. This will by itself cost lives. Is this really worth preventing .5% of the population from dying? I don't think so. We need to accept that sometimes we can't practically stop nature.

this alternative approach is similar to your own:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...SZossPN_7oV2-u4GrJUAzbCSS9vw#comments-wrapper

... There’s an available policy pathway that would cost no more than we’re already planning to spend, with much better effect and linked to a clear timetable for the end of aggressive social distancing.

... Our analysis found only two real options that combine a public health strategy and an economic strategy. In a white paper published this week, we call those options “Freeze in Place” and “Mobilize and Transition.” A third strategy, of letting the disease run its course nearly unimpeded in order to return swiftly to routine business activity, is also theoretically on the table. We call this approach “Surrender.”

... The second paradigm, “Mobilize and Transition,” treats the potential collapse of our health infrastructure as a major national security threat, so the policy response is to marshal all the resources of wartime. With the coronavirus as the enemy, this involves a single, up-front period of aggressive social distancing of approximately three months, to reduce transmission of the disease; simultaneously, the government acts just as aggressively to build an infrastructure for fighting and surviving the pandemic — investing in production of testing capacity and test administration, personal protective equipment, and tools for case identification and contact tracing.

In other words, we mobilize to transition to a society with pandemic resilience that permits maximal mobility for as large a portion of the population as possible even when the pandemic is ongoing. ...

[emphasis added by bubba]

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It wasn't JUST the shutdown, it was also that they took many more measures, testing heavily, testing every contact they could find of every victim, checking temperatures before allowing people entrance to groups, etc.

They also used cell phone tracking to trace where the infected travelled, to quarantine those in contact with the infected.

It was a massive effort to control the virus after ignoring/downplaying the initial reports of a new virus

 

[Craig234]

One advantage of my plan is that we don't have to focus as much on helping the economy and can focus almost exclusively on healthcare. Also, when we have future waves of this virus, since most of the population is immune, this will limit the spread, while other countries where most of the population isn't immune will need to quarantine over and over.

Also, the ruin and damage to countless millions must be considered when thinking about an economic shutdown for months on end. If we fall into depression, we will lose a decade of economic progress and will have a generation of destitute. This financial ruin will also hurt our ability to properly care for the vulnerable and elderly and fund our healthcare system. This will by itself cost lives. Is this really worth preventing .5% of the population from dying? I don't think so. We need to accept that sometimes we can't practically stop nature.

I have a thread talking about the tradeoffs. The problem is that the people in power to make those decisions have a huge bias to their own wealth being the priority, and not the people killed.

 

[OscarLevant]

The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.

How about everyone fast for 30 days, and just sit and home and do nothing, maybe watch TV, listen to the radio, crossword puzzles, argue on the internet.

But a nice long fast might help stop the virus. Here's a doctor lecturing on the subject

 

[OscarLevant]

Hannity has been right about a lot of things leftist pundits were completely wrong about, like the Trump/Russian collusion lie.

You mean, Hannity, who pushed the Uranium One conspiracy theory for months, which was debunked many times over?

By the way, the Mueller Report documented over 130 contacts between Russia and the Trump Campaign, so accusing Trump of 'collusion' wasn't an unreasonable thing, based on this fact.

 

[OscarLevant]

Trump tried to ban cruise lines, air flights and other things from china and other parts of the world infected.
people were let in anyway.

maybe next time they will listen instead of screaming about it.

Who is screaming about what?

Links please.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.

All it takes is the sniffles and the democrats have gone full chairman Mao

 

[distraff]

this alternative approach is similar to your own:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...SZossPN_7oV2-u4GrJUAzbCSS9vw#comments-wrapper

[emphasis added by bubba]

Yes, that is exactly what I suggest. Accept that this virus is going to do its thing and mobilize our economy to fight this thing. At least people will be put to work and have jobs. Its a compromise between all plans. Freeze in place for the vulnerable, mobilize to prevent overloading the healthcare system, but surrender by not doing social distancing for most and letting most people get the virus.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Trump ignored US intelligence reports about coronavirus from January onwards.

If trump had taken action against the coronavirus then... oh wait he did and your team called him
A racist for it

 

[distraff]

I have a thread talking about the tradeoffs. The problem is that the people in power to make those decisions have a huge bias to their own wealth being the priority, and not the people killed.

I get that those in power have a huge bias, but we need to make sure we have an economy. Without an economy we don't have a healthcare system, we can't produce things to help us with the virus, we can't feed people, and we can't shelter people.

 

[Hamish Howl]

If the quarantine works those poor people who are ruined will begrudge the rest of the country for trying to save the few lives which are saved while throwing the lives of tens of millions of poor families into the impoverished ditch in the process.

And then Marke threw granny under the bus for some of that sweet, sweet mammon.

 

[Craig234]

I get that those in power have a huge bias, but we need to make sure we have an economy. Without an economy we don't have a healthcare system, we can't produce things to help us with the virus, we can't feed people, and we can't shelter people.

You have a good point, but people without a huge bias who care about Americans should be making those decisions.