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Bitcoin

Bitcoin is also called XBT (https://cryptalker.com/what-is-xbt/) this is a crypto currency, which is limited as digital gold and is extracted by the efforts of both one miner and several (pools). It is obtained by solving certain mathematical operations (blocks). But the complexity of mining is growing as in the real world, because capacity is increasing, and so is the value
 
Used it in two small overseas business transactions, but have zero interest to invest.
 
Been involved the the crypto world since 2011. Earned my bitcoin the odd way, by winning them at poker. Have even been a contributor to an alt coin project. Hodl 70% of my crypto in that alt.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Most of you would laugh at me if I told you my opinions of bitcoin and crypto in general. Suffice it to say I'm not selling any. Spending, yes. From t-shirts to trips to Hawaii. But not selling.

Let's meet back up in say 2022... see if I was right.

If not? Well I went to Hawaii.

55k. Just sayin...

I will go back to sleep till 22. More to come in my humble opinion.
 
55k. Just sayin...

I will go back to sleep till 22. More to come in my humble opinion.

You are 100% correct.

The spike in bitcoin in 2017/2018 was imo because of a spike of interest from retail investors. If you look at google trends, bitcoins isn't really trending like it was in 17/18. The reason for the surge in price is the interest pouring in from institutions. Look at TESLA, MET LIFE, THE MAYOR OF MIAMI.

The amount of catalysts in bitcoin is MIND-BOGGLING. I am just glad I found block fi, now my bitcoin acts like a dividend stock!
 
IMO it is riskier to having nothing invested in bitcoin than at least a little.
 
Elon Musk lost $13 billion of his fortune in one day due to a decline in Tesla shares. They fell 8.5% — the biggest drop for the company in five months. The company's investors could be scared by the sharply cheaper bitcoin, in which the company invested $ 1.5 billion.
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The price of virtual nothing fell, and the shares of a company, that supposedly makes real cars, collapsed after it...

Tell it to someone 30 years ago...
 
Well, Bitcoin is now legal tender in El Salvador.

What's next?
 
So... just so you know, or perhaps to remind you.

Bitcoin is a hedge against the collapse of the current system.

“It might make sense just to get some in case it catches on. If enough people think the same way, that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.”​


Satoshi Nakamoto
 
So... just so you know, or perhaps to remind you.

Bitcoin is a hedge against the collapse of the current system.
No it's not. If the current system collapsed it would mean that the whole structure that supports bitcoin has also collapsed. In fact, a coin that could be held and traded would still have value, even though shrunken.
 
So... just so you know, or perhaps to remind you.

Bitcoin is a hedge against the collapse of the current system.
Not at all; bitcoin is in fact heavily correlated with the stock market and speculative assets (which it is) in general.
 
So... just so you know, or perhaps to remind you.

Bitcoin is a hedge against the collapse of the current system.
:ROFLMAO:

• There is no deposit insurance on any cryptocurrencies.

• I don't know how you missed it, but the crypto sector spent the past year melting down.

• In case the past year hasn't made it clear, the Fed is not going to ride in on a white horse and bail out crypto speculators.

• The crypto sector is rife with outright fraud, from FTX to rug pulls. SVB wasn't engaged in fraud, they just got nailed by a bank run... caused in part because their crypto clients were losing their shirts, and had to keep withdrawing real money as a result.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have utterly failed as currencies. They're just objects of speculation, and that never works out well for the average investor.
 
I never said anything about "crypto". That's all you. I was talking about Bitcoin. And I see a very important distinction. FTX was all about crypto. And do you know how much Bitcoin they held? Almost none.

And You are late to the "bitcoin has melted down" parties. I have been a Bitcoinner since 2011. I have seen ALL the meltdowns. The amount of times people have declared it dead has been amazing... and they have been wrong every single time.

And as to the fed coming in to save a crypto investor. Good the fed should never do ANY such thing. And I would never hold anywhere near the amount of value in USD that is the limit of their insurance ($250k).

If you don't get bitcoin... you don't get it. That's OK. You will get it eventually. A digitally native, un-inflatable hard bearer asset that has been running worldwide for 14+ years. And one of the only assets safe from what I see on the horizon.

And finally. I am not saying there is no risk in holding Bitcoin. Governments could continue to try to attack it. The US could try something like Exec Order 2502 again. And the price WILL go up and down as it has it's whole existence until it stabilizes.

I am not even suggesting people hold large quantities of it.

But I think there is a good chance a lot of people will be piling into bitcoin with a sliver of their value as they begin to watch the printing crank up during this round... just watch.

You can laugh at me again later when it falls from 900k a coin back to 100k.
 
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I wonder what % here get the reference?
Lol. ALL Bitcoinners get it. It has been compared to that market bubble since the very beginning. Thing is, the longer it lasts, the more it proves that comparison incorrect.
 
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Lol. ALL Bitcoinners get it. It has been compared to that market bubble since the very beginning. Thing is, the longer it lasts, the more it proves that comparison incorrect.
Bitcoin hasn't been bid up on false beliefs and crashed when the truth came home? The metaphor works.
 
Bitcoin hasn't been bid up on false beliefs and crashed when the truth came home? The metaphor works.
It's really a terrible comparison at this point. But everyone has their opinion.

No one knows the future. But I am betting (a lot, really) that we will be seeing it continue to go up overall, as it has for over a decade.

1679333152499.png
 
It's really a terrible comparison at this point. But everyone has their opinion.

No one knows the future. But I am betting (a lot, really) that we will be seeing it continue to go up overall, as it has for over a decade.

View attachment 67441533
We're still buying tulip bulbs, just as I expect Bitcoin will continue to be around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bitcoin fiat currency?
 
Sure. It's not that tulips blinked out of existence. It is that their value went way up and then crashed never to return. This has not happened with Bitcoin yet.

And. No. I do not think Bitcoin meets the definition of fiat. It has SOME similarities but not the key ones.

Fiat money is backed by nothing. Bitcoin is backed by electricity. (Henry Ford actually predicted this money)
Fiat is typically created by governments. Bitcoin is not created by ANY central power.
Fiat supply is governed by a central organization (the fed), Bitcoin is controlled by the code (math) and the consensus of the people running it.

The last bit is the hardest to understand. But it is arguably one of Bitcoin's more compelling properties (and it will become much more important in short order, I believe) is the fact that the supply is limited by the code. No more than 21,000,000 will ever be created, and that limit can only be changed if a majority of those who run nodes agree to the change. And they will not.

On the other hand the central banks of the world are turning on the printers again as we discuss this.
 
I never said anything about "crypto". That's all you. I was talking about Bitcoin.
So, you do not understand that Bitcoin is a form of cryptocurrency? Frequently referred to by the term "crypto?" Good to know. :LOL:

And I see a very important distinction. FTX was all about crypto. And do you know how much Bitcoin they held? Almost none.
Nope, wrong. At one point, FTX held $3 billion in BTC. Customers withdrew around 20,000 BTC right before it declared bankruptcy. BTC's price is so volatile that I've seen the USD amount vary from $450 million to $333 million in news reports.

Now, I will admit that I haven't dug into reports by the new management or receivership. But I'm quite confident that a fair amount of the cryptocurrency stolen by FTX/SBV, either to line his pockets or to prop up Alameda, was BTC. If that wasn't the case, that would be sheer luck, because there's nothing in the structure of BTC that made it more resistant to that type of theft/fraud than any other currency.

And as a reminder...
• BTC has no depositor insurance whatsoever
• BTC spent most of the past year melting down
• The Fed has not and will not rescue BTC
• BTC has been involved in a variety of scams and frauds

Granted, stocks share some of these features (e.g. no deposit insurance; occasionally crashes). But at least that stuff is regulated, and you don't have to worry about the CEO of the NYSE stealing your stocks and taking off for Bermuda.

And You are late to the "bitcoin has melted down" parties.
Or, not. I noticed that your comparison chart was awfully selective about its dates.

BTC_ALL_graph_coinmarketcap.png

I have been a Bitcoinner since 2011. I have seen ALL the meltdowns. The amount of times people have declared it dead has been amazing... and they have been wrong every single time.
Tell that to the people who got wiped out because the exchange they used failed... or [/url=v]because they accidentally threw the hard drive with their private key in the trash.[/url]

And as to the fed coming in to save a crypto investor. Good the fed should never do ANY such thing. And I would never hold anywhere near the amount of value in USD that is the limit of their insurance ($250k).
Hold the phone.

You've got less than $250k in Bitcoin. Those coins aren't insured by anyone. And that's your idea of a hedge against bank failures. But you know that $250k in cash would be insured. What the what?

If you don't get bitcoin... you don't get it. That's OK.
Oh, please. I've gotten it for a long time, and it's an utter failure as a currency. It's just another object of speculation, which excels at separating ordinary people from their real money.

You will get it eventually. A digitally native, un-inflatable hard bearer asset that has been running worldwide for 14+ years. And one of the only assets safe from what I see on the horizon.
Except that it isn't safe at all.

• It's not insured
• Nothing backs it
• If you lose the encryption key to your wallet, you're screwed (almost 20% of BTC is already "stranded" and inaccessible)
• If it's stolen from you, you're screwed
• Almost every major exchange involved in BTC has bought it over the past year or so
• If someone ever gets more than 51% of BTC, you're screwed (that happened to Bitcoin SV in 2021)

And finally. I am not saying there is no risk in holding Bitcoin. Governments could continue to try to attack it.
So your idea of a good hedge is an asset class that's under repeated attacks from governments? 🤨

And the price WILL go up and down as it has it's whole existence until it stabilizes.
Unless it goes to $0, BTC will never stabilize. It can't. It has no mechanism to stabilize its exchange rates or purchasing power.

You can laugh at me again later when it falls from 900k a coin back to 100k.
Can I laugh at you when it drops to $10, too?
 
I see bitcoin continuing to surge in value, well over $10,000. People that put money into this will be happy but I always get a sense its value is destined to fall eventually, perhaps crash under $1,000.

Any thoughts on this cryptocurrency?

Geez, in all my years studying economics, we were never taught about bitcoin so i can't do more than guess.
 
I do not think Bitcoin meets the definition of fiat.
Yeah, it does.

Hard currency is either made of, or exchangeable for, a commodity. E.g. a coin made of gold, or a bank note that is exchangeable for a fixed amount of gold.

There's no commodity backing BTC, and you can't exchange it for a commodity at a set rate.

Fiat money is backed by nothing.
Yup. That's BTC alright.

Bitcoin is backed by electricity.
lol, no, it isn't. It is generated by consuming electricity, but you can't convert BTC back into electricity.

Fiat is typically created by governments. Bitcoin is not created by ANY central power.
Fiat can also be created by private entities. Look up "company scrip."

Fiat supply is governed by a central organization....
Fiat can be decentralized. It isn't required to be centralized or backed by an entity.

The last bit is the hardest to understand. But it is arguably one of Bitcoin's more compelling properties (and it will become much more important in short order, I believe) is the fact that the supply is limited by the code. No more than 21,000,000 will ever be created, and that limit can only be changed if a majority of those who run nodes agree to the change. And they will not.
First of all, that still means that it's fiat.

Second, that limit is exactly why BTC is a disaster from a currency standpoint, and relegates it to an object of speculation, or a momentary trading medium for contraband.

Those price increases that you keep cheering? They prevent people from actually spending BTC. Let's say you bought a sandwich for 0.01 BTC in December 2016 (roughly $10). In November 2021, that 0.01 BTC was worth around $644. That's one heck of an expensive sandwich.

Conversely, imagine that in November 2021, you sell a car for 0.5 BTC ($32,000) and held onto the BTC. Today, those same coins are worth around $13,000.

There is no way to stop those kinds of exchange rate swings, specifically because it's decentralized, no one backs it, no one controls the supply, it has no fixed exchange to a commodity. That's what happens when a computer geek thinks they understand currency better than thousands of trained economists working at central banks.

On the other hand the central banks of the world are turning on the printers again as we discuss this.
lol

BTC underwent 70% inflation in a single year! How is that any better?
 
Are you referring to the 50¢ of fabric and stuffing used to make it?
That could be part of it. You could also buy it to use as a firestarter. IOW, it has value outside of its currency value.
Would you rather have a $20 bill than 10 $1 bills? Of course, in a place where American dollars are accepted as currency. What if your plane crashed in the wilderness? You'd take the 10 bills because they have more value than 1 bill in that situation.
 
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