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Bad Defense By Trump

TomFitz said:
Not much of one.

They got caught. Which is the only way the money ever was going to get out.
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Congress had already threatened to withhold Defense spending if the aid was not released.
The aid was released.
 
ecofarm said:
Your idiotic claim. There's no "Comptroller of the USA". There's a Comptroller General, and he's the head of the GAO. So you're spewing bs.
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The claim is that the GAO isn't the supervisor of the Executive Dept; they do not have final unchallenged word on the subject; and that there is a process to dispute the conclusion of the GAO.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The claim is that the GAO isn't the supervisor of the Executive Dept; they do not have final unchallenged word on the subject; and that there is a process to dispute the conclusion of the GAO.
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That's a lie. Here's the claim:

Athanasius68 said:
The GAO doesn't supervise the Executive Dept.
They issued an opinion based upon a request from Sen Van Hollen.
The OMB disagrees.
People are allowed to disagree; this after all America.
And in the event of a dispute, the law lays out a procedure to resolve it- in involves the Comptroller of the USA
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There is no "Comptroller of the USA". There is a Comptroller General and he is the head of the GAO.

So your post is completely full of ****.
 
marke said:
Democrats lied 400 times on the floor of the Senate by repeating false claims that the Bidens had already been cleared of criminal wrongdoing in Ukraine. It turns out, as Trumps lawyers so eloquently pointed out today, that the Bidens had not been investigated and cleared but were in fact guilty of the crimes the democrats in the House are so desperately seeking to cover up.
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If not investigated then how are they guilty? Quite an illogical premise you purpose
 
Athanasius68 said:
Congress had already threatened to withhold Defense spending if the aid was not released.
The aid was released.
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Congress made no such threat.

The aid was suddenly and inexplicably released the day after the White House learned that there was a whistleblower complaint.

Had Trump been able to hold out for five more days, the paperwork to release the money would never had gotten done by the end of the fiscal year, and Ukraine would not have gotten the money.

Which would have made Moscow happy. And what makes Moscow happy, makes Trump happy.
 
Athanasius68 said:
It continues to be the case that it is illegal to want to blow up a plane.
Its not illegal to withhold aid.
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But extortion of a foreign gov't would be.
Especially when it's extortion to smear a future political rival.
 
dairyair said:
But extortion of a foreign gov't would be.
Especially when it's extortion to smear a future political rival.
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but they have not proven that whatsoever.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... in other words, oversight worked?
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Yes.
Now the question is, was the extortion real? Was the money released because the extortion was made known?
Is that extortion a reason for impeachment?

I guess that is 3 questions.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Yes in your world he is guilty of withholding aid to the ukraine. The same aid that factually arrived early.
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No. He is not guilty of withholding. He's charged with withholding to extort. It's the extortion that he is being tried for.
 
Athanasius68 said:
It continues to be the case that it is illegal to want to blow up a plane.
Its not illegal to withhold aid.
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Of course, that is true. It is also true that is not why Trump is being impeached. He is being impeached for inviting foreign interference in our Presidential election for his personal benefit and bribing a foreign leader as incentive.

I am shocked at the ineffectiveness of Trump's lawyers. It almost seems as though they are doing it on purpose because they all know their client is guilty.

First, they try reinvent what Trump actually said by contriving the shared burden excuse mentioned above. That argument is ludicrous because, if that were true, Trump is an idiot speaking to the wrong party. If this was Trump's real concern in the July 25 call, what does he expect the Ukrainian president to do about it if Britain, France, and Germany are not contributing enough to Ukraine's war with Russia? If Trump were really concerned about unequal burden, he would take that up with the leaders of Britain, France, and Germany.

Duh! Yet this is what his lawyers tried to tell the Senators. I doubt that went over well.

Then, in the afternoon, Trump's expensive lawyers spent nearly all their time on trivia. Ignoring all the devastating evidence provided by the House's prosecutors, they talked about Burisma, events that happened five years ago, Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, the Mueller Report, Barack Obama and events that occurred seven years ago.

Word is, Trump is pleased with his lawyers' presentations. Wow! I don't know what to say to that.

When his lawyers did talk about the evidence, they mischaracterized the evidence, failed to substantiate their mischaracterizations, omitted key related evidence, and lied about what the prosecutors said, lies that were very apparent to Senators who knew better.

One wonders how Republican Senators are reacting to the dubious defense provided by Trump's lawyers.
 
Sand Castle said:
If not investigated then how are they guilty? Quite an illogical premise you purpose
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You bring up a good point. Lawyers today asked, "When had the Bidens had been investigated and found innocent? Who did the investigation and where is their report?" There was no investigation, the lawyers said. There was no report, and the Bidens are clearly not innocent.
 
dairyair said:
No. He is not guilty of withholding. He's charged with withholding to extort. It's the extortion that he is being tried for.
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He was charged with obstruction and abuse of power. Now its extortion? lol
 
I think Trump likes a shoddy defense. Given his chronic insecurity of his masculinity, the more craven the appearance of the senators who vote to acquit him, the happier he will be.
 
dairyair said:
No. He is not guilty of withholding. He's charged with withholding to extort. It's the extortion that he is being tried for.
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No it’s not. It’s for supposedly abusing his power by withhold the aid to force an investigation into a political opponent.
 
Aberration said:
No it’s not. It’s for supposedly abusing his power by withhold the aid to force an investigation into a political opponent.
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Yes.

ARTICLE I: ABUSE OF POWER

This is the first article of impeachment. There will be votes on each.

The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives “shall have the sole Power of Impeachment” and that the President “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, a Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors
The articles of impeachment against President Trump, annotated

Bribery, not extortion, of a foreign gov't for personal political gain. Abuse of power.
 
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