Adam Schiff-Ukraine connection comes under scrutiny

[tres borrachos]

Ummm no. Trump is going to easily move on from this impeachment effort. As I called from the beginning, it will serve to expose corruption in the democratic party.. That being said it's time to accept Trump as your president and move on with your life.

Republicans had a small victory today and Schiff had nothing to say to the press... not looking good for dems... sorry that's just the Gods honest Truth.

I already know Trump is the President. So does everyone else on this board.

A comment like "time to move on with your life" coming from a person who is still trying to claim Barack Obama was born in Kenya is comical. Truly comical.

Trump is not going to win re-election because most Americans don't want a corrupt lying fraud in the Oval Office, and Adam Schiff has nothing to do with Trump's corruption. That is owned by Trump.

 

[Marine Electric]

Thoughts? Think there is anything here or are these claims baseless?

Has there been an accusation by the repussicans in the last 30 years that wasn't baseless?

 

[lwf]

I dont know what rumor your talking about the video of Biden telling his audience that he threatened to withhold aid unless they fired the guy. That admission alone is enough to give a person reasonable suspicion.

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He was doing his job. Obama wanted the corrupt prosecutor gone and so did the entire European Union. Not because he was looking into a company that Hunter Biden happened to have a stake in, but because there was ample evidence that the man was a corrupt prosecutor, and in order to do business with Ukraine, the US wanted it to crack down on the rampant corruption. There isn't even any evidence that Biden or his son were aware that the company was under investigation. And a corrupt prosecutor doesn't get to keep his job just because he happens to open an investigation before he's fired. And the top Unkrainian prosecutor who took over has already said there is zero evidence of any wrong doing by Hunter Biden.

This makes what Biden did a normal use of diplomacy and political leverage, and what Trump did extortion and a gross abuse of power against a U.S. citizen for political gain.

 

[trouble13]

He was doing his job. Obama wanted the corrupt prosecutor gone and so did the entire European Union. Not because he was looking into a company that Hunter Biden happened to have a stake in, but because there was ample evidence that the man was a corrupt prosecutor, and in order to do business with Ukraine, the US wanted it to crack down on the rampant corruption. There isn't even any evidence that Biden or his son were aware that the company was under investigation. And a corrupt prosecutor doesn't get to keep his job just because he happens to open an investigation before he's fired. And the top Unkrainian prosecutor who took over has already said there is zero evidence of any wrong doing by Hunter Biden.

This makes what Biden did a normal use of diplomacy and political leverage, and what Trump did extortion and a gross abuse of power against a U.S. citizen for political gain.

Youre espousing a double standard

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[SCrider]

Youre espousing a double standard

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I don't think you know what that means....

 

[JasperL]

Youre espousing a double standard

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No, it's not.

Biden was executing the foreign policy of the U.S. We do this all the time - some version of, "if you want our help, you need to do this." It's a quid pro quo. He did this openly, with the explicit support of the U.S. and our allies in Europe, the IMF, reformers in Ukraine, and more.

Trump did none of that. And if nothing else we KNOW that by how the WH, people on the call, reacted to it at that time - they did all but erase the call from the official record by burying it behind an information vault that almost no one in the WH or the State department can access.

 

[trouble13]

No, it's not.

Biden was executing the foreign policy of the U.S. We do this all the time - some version of, "if you want our help, you need to do this." It's a quid pro quo. He did this openly, with the explicit support of the U.S. and our allies in Europe, the IMF, reformers in Ukraine, and more.

Trump did none of that. And if nothing else we KNOW that by how the WH, people on the call, reacted to it at that time - they did all but erase the call from the official record by burying it behind an information vault that almost no one in the WH or the State department can access.

Trump did not make anything conditional about his request, at least he did not indicate there were any conditions. He asked them for assistsnce in gathering information in a matter that he wanted to know more about. Unless there is more to the story that has not been presented yet, i see nothing wrong with that.

I dont see how anyone can be bothered by what Trump did and not what Biden did. Conversly i also dont see how anyone can defend Trump but not Biden.

My position is that its entirely appropiate for both of them to be investigated and if evidence of a crime is unearthed, those should be dealt with accountability. I apply one standard to both men.

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[JasperL]

Trump did not make anything conditional about his request, at least he did not indicate there were any conditions. He asked them for assistsnce in gathering information in a matter that he wanted to know more about. Unless there is more to the story that has not been presented yet, i see nothing wrong with that.

Everyone knows that the phone call is a very small part of the deal. As we saw from the texts, the conditions necessary just for the call to happen included Zelenskyy agreeing to those investigations. The phone call confirmed the deal made before it happened between Ukraine and Volker and others.

And the "didn't make it conditional" is just IMO gaslighting. Imagine if your business, whatever it is, relies for its survival on ONE client - that's roughly where Ukraine is - they cannot afford to lose U.S. support without threat of DIRE consequences. So this client sends his lawyers to your office and for weeks they tell you that the CEO really, really, really, REALLY wants you to do a couple of "favors" for him. The idea that the CEO has to explicitly condition his business on your willingness to do him that favor his lawyers have been pestering you for weeks about is kind of insulting, actually. There's not a business owner on planet earth who wouldn't understand that failing to do those favors could mean loss of the client, and so the pressure is IMMENSE. The question for Ukraine was - Do those favors or risk Trump's support.

I dont see how anyone can be bothered by what Trump did and not what Biden did. Conversly i also dont see how anyone can defend Trump but not Biden.

They're two entirely different things.

My position is that its entirely appropiate for both of them to be investigated and if evidence of a crime is unearthed, those should be dealt with accountability. I apply one standard to both men.

So your position is that Presidents SHOULD in fact urge (quid pro quo or not) corrupt foreign governments to investigate their political rivals, and do it in secret, and then appoint their personal attorney, give him the authority of the AG, but with no obligation to do what's best for the U.S. or serve the interests of justice but the needs of his client (Trump) as the point man on that?

 

[trouble13]

Everyone knows that the phone call is a very small part of the deal. As we saw from the texts, the conditions necessary just for the call to happen included Zelenskyy agreeing to those investigations. The phone call confirmed the deal made before it happened between Ukraine and Volker and others.

And the "didn't make it conditional" is just IMO gaslighting. Imagine if your business, whatever it is, relies for its survival on ONE client - that's roughly where Ukraine is - they cannot afford to lose U.S. support without threat of DIRE consequences. So this client sends his lawyers to your office and for weeks they tell you that the CEO really, really, really, REALLY wants you to do a couple of "favors" for him. The idea that the CEO has to explicitly condition his business on your willingness to do him that favor his lawyers have been pestering you for weeks about is kind of insulting, actually. There's not a business owner on planet earth who wouldn't understand that failing to do those favors could mean loss of the client, and so the pressure is IMMENSE. The question for Ukraine was - Do those favors or risk Trump's support.



They're two entirely different things.



So your position is that Presidents SHOULD in fact urge (quid pro quo or not) corrupt foreign governments to investigate their political rivals, and do it in secret, and then appoint their personal attorney, give him the authority of the AG, but with no obligation to do what's best for the U.S. or serve the interests of justice but the needs of his client (Trump) as the point man on that?

What makes you think that investigating an acting vice presidents potentially using gov aid for personal interests not in the countrys best interests? Is that exactly what your accusing Trump of?

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[JasperL]

What makes you think that investigating an acting vice presidents potentially using gov aid for personal interests not in the countrys best interests? Is that exactly what your accusing Trump of?

I've made my argument and you're just ignoring it. Read that last part again if you don't understand what I think the PROBLEM is. Rudy does not work for the U.S. He works for Trump and if/when Trump's interests conflict with the country's interests, Rudy is professionally obligated to work in favor of TRUMP'S interests, and AGAINST what is in the best interests of the country.

It's why we (the United States) don't have free lancers like Rudy with conflicts of interest out the wazoo running point on criminal investigations of POLITICAL RIVALS, in the U.S. or anywhere else. If we as a country want to investigate Biden, that's the job of the DoJ or FBI et al., not hired private thugs and influence peddlers getting paid by who knows who for who knows what purpose.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Trump did not make anything conditional about his request, at least he did not indicate there were any conditions. He asked them for assistsnce in gathering information in a matter that he wanted to know more about. Unless there is more to the story that has not been presented yet, i see nothing wrong with that.

I dont see how anyone can be bothered by what Trump did and not what Biden did. Conversly i also dont see how anyone can defend Trump but not Biden.

My position is that its entirely appropiate for both of them to be investigated and if evidence of a crime is unearthed, those should be dealt with accountability. I apply one standard to both men.

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Yes, twump did make it conditional, the WB and white house accounts of this square up exactly, as do the texts of the ambassadors and twump has confessed to having committed this crime on the air.

You don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[iguanaman]

Did anyone read the part where the guy was a US citizen at the time of the fundraiser?

Where's the fun in that?

 

[poweRob]

Adam Schiff-Ukraine connection comes under scrutiny | Fox News

Adam Schiff's ties to Ukraine under the microscope
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, who has played a leading role in investigating the Trump-Ukraine scandal, is facing questions about his own connection to a Soviet-born businessman who has raised money for his campaign and whose company has received lucrative defense contracts from Ukraine's government.
That man is Igor Pasternak, the founder and CEO of Worldwide Aeros Corp., which makes blimps for military and commercial customers. His business has also been involved in weapons manufacturing, working with the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense to produce a modified version of the M4 and M16 rifles, according to reports.

PELOSI DEFENDS SCHIFF AFTER BEING PRESSED ABOUT HIS 'PARODY' OF TRUMP'S UKRAINE CALL
In 2013, Pasternak (arms dealer) hosted a fundraiser in Washington for Schiff, who later came to embrace a strong stance in support of the United States sending military aid to Ukraine during its conflict with Russia.

“Before this time, Schiff rarely, if ever, mentioned Ukraine,” Fox News’ Laura Ingraham said on her show Thursday night, after detailing Schiff’s connection to Pasternak. “But after the fundraiser, he used multiple television appearances to basically demand that we send money and arms to them.”

This is yet more blow back from the failed impeachment attempt. I call it failed because it's just a matter of time until its thrown out.
This is something we should start to look into and know about. Seems more and more we are seeing corruption from the left wing relative to Russia/Ukraine. I recommend you guys take a good hard look into Pasternak and his dealings with Adam Schiff.

Thoughts? Think there is anything here or are these claims baseless?

Next we'll hear from trump that Adam Schiff got a scalp surgery to hide his baldness and like spray tanning too much.

 

[trouble13]

I've made my argument and you're just ignoring it. Read that last part again if you don't understand what I think the PROBLEM is. Rudy does not work for the U.S. He works for Trump and if/when Trump's interests conflict with the country's interests, Rudy is professionally obligated to work in favor of TRUMP'S interests, and AGAINST what is in the best interests of the country.

It's why we (the United States) don't have free lancers like Rudy with conflicts of interest out the wazoo running point on criminal investigations of POLITICAL RIVALS, in the U.S. or anywhere else. If we as a country want to investigate Biden, that's the job of the DoJ or FBI et al., not hired private thugs and influence peddlers getting paid by who knows who for who knows what purpose.

Am i understanding you correctly that your issue isnot with Trump asking the ukranian gov for assistance. Your problem is that Trumps personal lawyer was the point person?

If so i will respond to that but i want to make sure we are both having the same conversation.

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[Integrityrespec]

Having connections in a foreign country is not a problem. Threatening to sever those connections if said foreign country doesn't open an unprompted investigation into your political opponent is a crime.

Connections to a foriegn government are not a problem unless there is corruption. Why would Schiff support those companies in the Ukraine. Recieving a gift for that support would be corrupt and that is a crime.
Of course nobody expects the democrats to cast shade on their own. Nope, they make up the lies on others but don't investigate relevant information about their own.
The house of cards that the democrats have build their foundation on is slowly falling down and I suspect democrats will suffer as the truth continues to emerge.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Yes, twump did make it conditional, the WB and white house accounts of this square up exactly, as do the texts of the ambassadors and twump has confessed to having committed this crime on the air.

You don't have a leg to stand on.

So none of the facts about the way this information and the Biden information have come out seems to worry you when you look at democrats.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

So none of the facts about the way this information and the Biden information have come out seems to worry you when you look at democrats.

None of these 'facts' have demonstrated any corruption or criminality on the part of the Bidens or the Democrats.

They do, however, conclusively demonstrate that twump has committed serious crimes and that he's admitted to them.

You seem unable to accept that.

Bummer.

 

[Integrityrespec]

No, it's not.

Biden was executing the foreign policy of the U.S. We do this all the time - some version of, "if you want our help, you need to do this." It's a quid pro quo. He did this openly, with the explicit support of the U.S. and our allies in Europe, the IMF, reformers in Ukraine, and more.

Trump did none of that. And if nothing else we KNOW that by how the WH, people on the call, reacted to it at that time - they did all but erase the call from the official record by burying it behind an information vault that almost no one in the WH or the State department can access.

President has every right and responsibiltity to look into corruption between our government and another. If the democrats really want truth and transparency they would look into Hunter Bidens sudden wealth coming from the Ukraine and then China. Not doing so just means they know something is not right about the entire transaction.

 

[j brown's body]

????? What crime would that be? There silly theory is that Trump was soliciting a campaign contribution from a foreigner. They are claiming the asking for a favor is the crime.

It's called extortion. He asked for a favor "though". And it is a crime to ask a foreign leader to smear your political opponent in order to get the funding that Congress has allocated to his country.

 

[JasperL]

Am i understanding you correctly that your issue isnot with Trump asking the ukranian gov for assistance. Your problem is that Trumps personal lawyer was the point person?

You insist on misstating what happened. There is no known U.S. investigation into Biden or Burisma, so he didn't ask for "assistance" in an investigation that isn't happening. Barr denies there is one, so we assume, I guess, Barr is telling the truth about that. If there was an official DoJ/FBI investigation and Trump asked for "assistance" that's fine. It's why all those investigations Barr and Durham ARE doing out in the open aren't being mentioned as corrupt. See the difference?

And yes, of course it's a HUGE problem Rudy is anywhere near this stuff, much less given the authority of the AG (Trump: (half dozen times) "I'll have Rudy and AG Barr call you" - as if they're equivalent) when his loyalties are NOT to the United States but the personal interests of Trump. Rudy isn't bound by DoJ rules, or any rules. He can lie his ass off on TV and break no laws or his oath or his duties as a DoJ member. Etc....

 

[JasperL]

President has every right and responsibiltity to look into corruption between our government and another. If the democrats really want truth and transparency they would look into Hunter Bidens sudden wealth coming from the Ukraine and then China. Not doing so just means they know something is not right about the entire transaction.

Fine, and Trump has the DoJ, FBI etc. to do all that for him. Where it goes off the rails is when Trump as President to another president of a corrupt foreign hellhole dependent on U.S. support gives his PERSONAL ATTORNEY the lead investigatory role, with the authority of the AG and the DoJ for whom Rudy owes NO loyalty or duty to serve.

And, again, you don't have to ask Democrats if that was improper. The entire WH knew it was, which is why they proceeded to bury the call in the secret vault that only a half dozen can access. Trump's people in Ukraine were not allowed to read what the President said on the call with Zelenskyy. That's basically unheard of - how can they do their job when they don't know what their boss is saying to the country they're dealing with?

 

[trouble13]

You insist on misstating what happened. There is no known U.S. investigation into Biden or Burisma, so he didn't ask for "assistance" in an investigation that isn't happening. Barr denies there is one, so we assume, I guess, Barr is telling the truth about that. If there was an official DoJ/FBI investigation and Trump asked for "assistance" that's fine. It's why all those investigations Barr and Durham ARE doing out in the open aren't being mentioned as corrupt. See the difference?

And yes, of course it's a HUGE problem Rudy is anywhere near this stuff, much less given the authority of the AG (Trump: (half dozen times) "I'll have Rudy and AG Barr call you" - as if they're equivalent) when his loyalties are NOT to the United States but the personal interests of Trump. Rudy isn't bound by DoJ rules, or any rules. He can lie his ass off on TV and break no laws or his oath or his duties as a DoJ member. Etc....

You're losing me on how me asking you for clarification of your position equates to me missrepresenting something. If anything its me making an effort not to do that.

Im very clear on what my position is and i am upfront about it. Im willing to discuss it but at this point it feels like a game of wackamol

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[Vern]

This whole debacle should serve as a cautionary tale, not only for the left, but for the right, too.

Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption. It always has been and it always will be. You can't crawl into bed with pigs without getting dirty...

Yes Jack, Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption. But seeing how only trump and rudy are "crawling into bed with pigs" why is it a "cautionary tale for the left"? You're not falling for yet another lying conservative narrative to distract from trump are you? Remember, these are the people who told you President Obama was born in Kenya, his BC a forgery, (put all Obamacare lies here), the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies and "republicans really really really want to balance the budget".

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Yes Jack, Ukraine is a cesspool of corruption. But seeing how only trump and rudy are "crawling into bed with pigs" why is it a "cautionary tale for the left"? You're not falling for yet another lying conservative narrative to distract from trump are you? Remember, these are the people who told you President Obama was born in Kenya, his BC a forgery, (put all Obamacare lies here), the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies and "republicans really really really want to balance the budget".

"Only Trump and Rudy.":lol:

Shameless...

 

[EnigmaO01]

Pasternak has been donating since as far back as Bob Dole that I was able to see. He donated $5400 to Lindsey Graham in 2016.

I can't believe how ignorant Trump fans are becoming.

Becoming?