60 percent of Americans say Trump tax plan will benefit wealthy (POLL)

[Mycroft]

What is the proper split, in your opinion?

Party Affiliation | Gallup Historical Trends

 

[Mycroft]

Couple problems with your post: “mooching”? Didn’t that go out with Reagan’s baloney about welfare queens and young bucks on public assistance? What’sgeneral assistance in your county? Civilized societies take care of the less fortunate or less capable. If a few lazy louts get handouts who cares? Price of modernity. Think of them as military contractors making useless weapons.

And if SS or Medicare are in trouble, raise taxes/cut benefits, raise retirement age, etc. We can afford it, as we are far less taxed than the rest of the developed world. Or (don’t faint, conservatives) support unions, raise the minimum wage and/or do other things that eliminate mooching.

So...you "eliminate mooching" by taxing the non-moochers and giving the moochers more stuff.

 

[Fenton]

Screwed up? How is digging us out of the largest recession in history and avoiding a nation wide possibly world wide depression screwing up.

I have always been Independent but it is historically very, very clear that democrats are.by far better at managing the economy.

:lamo

No, Democrats are not better at managing the economy. Thats just absurd.

 

[Risky Thicket]

60% of American's can't make change in their head.

And damn near all of them voted for Trump.

I hope they enjoy their tax cuts. If they're lucky it'll be just enough to pay for the increase in their health insurance premiums.

 

[Nickyjo]

So...you "eliminate mooching" by taxing the non-moochers and giving the moochers more stuff.

Of course. My moocher friend was shot and paralyzed by an unknown assailant and mooches in subsidized housing with disability payments. My moocher father lost his job in the depression with a newborn at home and mooched off relief til he got a moocher government funded job building warships. Later on, I got assistance from a limited government medical insurance program for the uninsurable, due to an incurable disease. I now mooch off SS and Medicare, without doubt using more than I put into those programs.

Just who and how numerous are these phantom moochers and where can I find them so I can scold them? Is it the mentally ill? The disabled? Do you really believe the very wealthy don't mooch in some way? At least you haven't descended into Ayn Rand's makers-takers quasi fascist dichotomy.

What you see to be objecting to is the way western societies have organized themselves since the 1930s-40s. Seems to have worked out ok so far.

But I am open. How would you organize society differently to deal with your dichotomy between mooch and non-mooch?

 

[Mycroft]

Of course. My moocher friend was shot and paralyzed by an unknown assailant and mooches in subsidized housing with disability payments. My moocher father lost his job in the depression with a newborn at home and mooched off relief til he got a moocher government funded job building warships. Later on, I got assistance from a limited government medical insurance program for the uninsurable, due to an incurable disease. I now mooch off SS and Medicare, without doubt using more than I put into those programs.

Just who and how numerous are these phantom moochers and where can I find them so I can scold them? Is it the mentally ill? The disabled? Do you really believe the very wealthy don't mooch in some way? At least you haven't descended into Ayn Rand's makers-takers quasi fascist dichotomy.

What you see to be objecting to is the way western societies have organized themselves since the 1930s-40s. Seems to have worked out ok so far.

But I am open. How would you organize society differently to deal with your dichotomy between mooch and non-mooch?

Let charity take care of the moochers.

 

[poweRob]

And damn near all of them voted for Trump.

I hope they enjoy their tax cuts. If they're lucky it'll be just enough to pay for the increase in their health insurance premiums.

Middle class and lower class tax cuts in this plan expire in 5 years. The rich tax cuts would be permanent.

 

[Nickyjo]

Let charity take care of the moochers.

I see, return to the 19th century. Sorry, we've passed you by... But you still haven't told me who the moochers are a show they mooch.

 

[upsideguy]

The vast majority - something like 85% - get a tax cut.

....you say this based upon what? Please post analysis.

The plan will take more people off the income tax roles by raising the standard deduction. However, for people that itemize, it will shift things around with some winners and some losers. Overall, its likely a push for more affluent middle class as a whole.... with many seeing a tax increase. But, the middle class is getting played here. They are throwing scraps and saying "see, look what we are doing for you".....

If this tax cut for (and really a wealth shift to) the highest income earners. If this were actually about the middle class, it would not include a repeal of the estate tax (only benefits the 1/2 of 1%), it would eliminate the carried interest benefit, it would index rather than eliminate the AMT, and would not have the pass through rules. The Corporate income tax reduction would be offset with tightening rules around transfer pricing schemes. The person that gains the most from this proposal: Donald Trump. It plays very well to the real estate industry. His signing this should be considered an emoluments violation.

That all said, the idea of cutting taxes while in a deficit, during a strong economy AND with an unresolved conflict (NK) is gross negligence on the part of the Republican party. Then again, as a group, they are self-serving idiots with a substantially uneducated base that doesn't see the wool being pulled over their eyes.

 

[upsideguy]

Let charity take care of the moochers.

"... are there no prisons, are there no workhouses?..."

But for the grace of God, you are not moocher yourself.

 

[upsideguy]

Taking what money from the poor?

yes. In preparation for this tax cut, Congress passed a budget that removed $1.8T from healthcare, including $500B from Medicare, our universal coverage for seniors (who may not be "poor", but are living on fixed income); $240B from welfare (programs for the poor); $653B in income security spending, including the SNAP program; $100B in student loans; $6B in affordable housing programs and $2B from job corp.... all to give tax cuts (during a time of deficit) that weigh heavily to those of the highest incomes AND eliminates the estate tax, which benefits only 2/10 of 1% of the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526458/2018-senate-budget-explained
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_federal_budget

Please note that Medicaid currently pays the freight of nearly 64% of all nursing home residents .... most seniors out live their money and need medicaid at the end.... how is your 401(k). If you don't have $2M saved by 65, your probably going to need Medicaid at some point.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/science/medicaid-cutbacks-elderly-nursing-homes.html

Moreover, the tax structure eliminates medical expense deductions (first they kick the legs out from medical care from those that can least afford it AND then they twist the knife by not even letting you deduct the expense).

Poor people are going to have to pay more taxes?

No silly, see above.

So? Any tax cut is a tax cut for the rich, the poor don't (effectively) pay taxes.

Does not mean that the poor are not hurt. When you cut taxes by cutting programs for the poor, you are creating wealth transfer (the wrong way)...

Allowing people and businesses to keep more of what they earn, to the benefit of all in the economy and tax revenue.

“In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now.” - JFK

Who is taking money from the poor? Ceasing to take from the rich to redistribute to the poor is not taking anything. You've got the kart before the horse sir.

This tax cut involves cutting programs, which the poor and middle class are the primary beneficiaries and giving it to the rich. Yes, it does involve a reversal wealth transfer, and as such is reprehenisble.

The discussion of it enhancing revenue is a completely separate discussion for which I am happy wax you at, but its separate. This is a deficit increasing tax cut, it will not produce greater receipts (the Bush tax cut of 2001/2003 resulted in a 20% reduction in receipts and took $1T from the coffers)..... the JFK quote is not in context of this, but appropriate to the circumstance of the time.

Lol, this is such a ridiculous statement. A tax cut isn't giving the "rich" money it is merely letting people keep the money they earn.

You talk about what is morally right but can you tell me why it is morally wrong for a group of people to steal money from a rich person, but it is somehow justified for that group to vote for the government to take it from them.

I will show you more class and not ridicule your statement as ridiculous....

You are operating under this notion that the top line of your gross is yours. Let help you, not all of it is. Let's start with the fact that if you are Jewish or Christian, you know that at least 10% of your income belongs to God. If you are an Evangelical Christian, you know that NONE of your income is yours, its all God's, who has entrusted it your stewardship and will want an accounting.

That aside, to live in a society and benefit from its laws, its security, its infrastructure means, as a citizen, you have an obligation to pay your fair share. Our society needs about 18% of GDP to maintain itself (at the federal level). We, as citizens get to decide what goods and services a government should provide and how best to allocate that cost amongst the citizens. To the extent the society asks YOU to contribute, those dollars are NOT yours.



Sorry, this is a gross wealth transfer from those in need to those not in need. May the Lord have mercy on the souls of those that vote for it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/gop-tax-plan-favors-the-richest-tax-analysis-shows.html

 

[Mycroft]

I see, return to the 19th century. Sorry, we've passed you by... But you still haven't told me who the moochers are a show they mooch.

Yeah...you passed me by and exploded the number of moochers. Thanks...for nothing.

You are the one who defined moochers.

 

[Borkazork]

Look at it this way, many so-called rich people are business owners who provide jobs to the poor and middle class. When their tax burdens are reduced, it puts more of their money back into their own hands to improve their business, hire more people, give pay increases to their workers, or whatever else they want to do with it. Tax cuts benefit nearly everyone in the big picture.

Lol he still thinks trickle down economics is real.

High school was such a magical time.

 

[SMTA]

60% of American's can't make change in their head.

Trump voters.

 

[Rexedgar]

Trump voters.

No, I think this is really a bi-partisan problem.......if the cash register/computer craps out during that part of the transaction your lunch will be delayed!

 

[jmotivator]

60 percent of Americans say Trump tax plan will benefit wealthy (POLL)

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Typical Americans are realizing that the Trump/GOP Tax Reform package actually does them no great favors and is not deficit-neutral (it substantially increases the national deficit).

Related: Trumps Tax Plan | ABC Poll PDF

Why do we care about the national opinion on something that is quantitative? It either does or it doesn't.

 

[jwzg]

Why do we care about the national opinion on something that is quantitative? It either does or it doesn't.

Thank you for the coup d'état to this article and any further discussion. Half the nation voted for Hillary and half for Trump. Does anyone here honestly think the people of the US have the first damned clue about the economic impact of tax cuts?

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