Woman on Woman Body Shaming

KevinKohler said:

I'll add, that while I'm AM going back and forth on this, for me, it's not really a major concern. I just don't care about this one facet of women's lib that much.



Because most girls don't hit hard.:2razz:

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It's more of an issue for the extremes than anything. There is a reporter that is 4'11 about 90 pounds and probably in his late sixties. He can't defend himself against most people and it's not really fair to him to hold him to the standards of the average man when those standards are essentially for the man to stand there and take it.

KevinKohler said:

He was a scumbag, he got slapped for it.

Now, flip the role. She is a scum bag, she gets slapped for it?

What I'm saying, and what He run is saying,

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no that is NOT what he is saying, it is one layer he has placed upon his countless attacks on women here in this forum

is that it's wrong for anyone to hit anyone, regardless of sex,

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you need to read this thread again, my comprehension is perfectly clear

but it being wrong isn't what prevents it from happening, sometimes. What prevents it from happening, sometimes, is fear of reprisal.

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you are sorely misinformed if you believe that the majority of "functional" individuals do not engage in physical violence because of fear of reprisal

I do not know how to make it any more clear to you than to state once again...that is dysfunctional behaviour

If it was socially acceptable to hit a girl, and had been for all her life, do you think she would have thought a little longer and harder before hitting him?

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omg

I mean, that's why the bullies left ME alone. Because they knew that to mess with me meant getting into a fight, hands down. They didn't want to get into a fight, so they left alone, and moved on to the next victim.

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read that 50 more times and contemplate it

It's wrong for a boy to hit a girl, but the problem is, society doesn't see it as equally wrong for a girl to hit a boy. It's somehow less wrong, as long as he deserved it. THATS the problem, and no matter how much anyone on this thread squirms, there is simply no denying this FACT.

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only by a certain group and many are right here in this thread apparently
eace out

have an awesome Sunday

_Sal said:

no that is NOT what he is saying, it is one layer he has placed upon his countless attacks on women here in this forum


you need to read this thread again, my comprehension is perfectly clear


you are sorely misinformed if you believe that the majority of "functional" individuals do not engage in physical violence because of fear of reprisal

I do not know how to make it any more clear to you than to state once again...that is dysfunctional behaviour

omg



read that 50 more times and contemplate it

only by a certain group and many are right here in this thread apparently
eace out

have an awesome Sunday

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You too, Sal.

Dragonfly said:

And women don't know this?

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I think many woman do know this. Not all do.

Henrin said:

Yup, it's socially acceptable for women to slap men, so police many times won't do anything about it.

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What would be a really good idea would be to make all physical assaults socially unacceptable on the basis that it is just the wrong thing to do.

Comparing and contrasting what IS currently considered as 'manly high jinx' is just diversion from the problem. I suspect that if you spoke to many women that they would actually be more concerned about the apparently socially acceptable levels of all violence and not just that directed at men.

_Sal said:

FastPace to clarify...are you agreeing with Henrin that men should be physically aggressive with women?

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In bed?

No, just joking.




My mind was focusing on--keyed in on--his comment about "equality" in relation to treating women like men. I wasn't even thinking about men and women fighting each other with fists or open hands, or WWE body slamming each other. (I would prefer no one was violent or mean towards anyone on earth. In a perfect world. So, that includes men fighting men.)

I was thinking more a long the lines of pressures placed on men. Take for example the term "loser." It's really only applied to males (of any age). Or taking being "a man." That's accomplished and can be lost, whereas for females they simply age into being "women" and it can never be lost.

Women physically don't look so different than they did in the 1950s. Men? Yes and no. I guess the average dude looks no different than the average cat from the 1950s.

Male bodybuilders in the 1940s and 1950s:





Steve Reeves the Mr. Universe of 1950:





To a police officer (breaking the law at that)




To a regular dude--though he's in his 40s or 50s but dresses like he is in his 20s--that does well and admits steroid use (I actually appreciate that dude is honest about it).



But from the NFL to professional baseball men have gotten way "jacked" from what even the top male athletes were in the 1940s and '50s.

You know... you heard Americans yapping about to ban Russians from the these past Olympics because they were on steroids and "cheat" etc., with the idea few Americans do. It's all BS. And it's not only Americans. Nearly all top athletes today are doing something to give them and edge. And as much as Lance Armstrong lied... others in his sport from all over the world were (are) likely doing the same or similar (his was blood doping though I think).

I mean look... our supplements and knowledge has improved enough that you can get bigger than dudes in the 1950s without steroids (or the other crazy stuff they take). That's true. So, I don't want to make it sound like all muscularly big dudes got so by steroids along with pumping iron. No. But you can only get so big "naturally", while being "chiseled."

A lot of male movie actors have taken them too. Sorry, it is true. How do I know? It is incredibly hard for most people to gain muscle mass. Particular while maintaining low body fat. You can do it but it will take years. When you are skinny and they want you to pack on muscle in 5 months for a movie, and you emerge 5 months latter looking pretty bulky and cut, the odds are extremely high you "juiced."



So, what I'm saying here is that the world of men is far more competitive and unforgiving. The most women have to worry about is complaining about how their butt looks in a pair of jeans, or that they have to apply make up. That's why the lady in the video with Rich looks like any woman from the 1950s in fitness but Rich looks like a tank compared to the top and most elite men of the 1950s.

Here... former famous bodybuilder Dorian Yates says men that pack on lots of muscle tend to have insecurities.





Okay... he won't say it but I will. This cyclist, odds are extremely high, he's on steroids. Sorry. Particularly given he is chiseled (I think it's Winstrol V. that will also give you a "cut" look when you stack that steroid with others like Deca or D-Ball, but it has been decades since my "juice" knowledge has been up-to-date.). But women all over the world will be impressed and think he did a few light workout, merely has the "genes," and is less concerned with his physical looks than women are.




And for women... especially relevant to this thread... don't feel too bad women you see sexy women on the internet (or in life) always. They are not always "100% natural" or "100% honest" either. This world is full of deceptions and secrets. She probably has fake butt implants too. Some men get fake implants in their arms and chest now too. But only a tiny percent. More common is some new substance some people are taken which fills dudes arms and chests up with oil. Yuck. I'm talking injected oil into muscles.

americanwoman said:

It also goes the other way with younger women shaming older women too.

'Playboy' Model Sentenced Over Body-Shaming Woman At Gym : The Two-Way : NPR

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What a c u next tuesday, but wow, kinda a harsh punishment, no?

FastPace said:

What do you mean used to? They still do.

And girls and women have joined in on the fist fighting. I mean... with modern technology you can record this stuff and post it on Facebook or youtube etc.

Men remain some violent SOBs. We still remain less violent than Chimpanzees but we still remain more violent than Bonobos.

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I think you're being a bit unfair to the Chimps here tbh.

FastPace said:

In bed?

No, just joking.

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:mrgreen:

My mind was focusing on--keyed in on--his comment about "equality" in relation to treating women like men. I wasn't even thinking about men and women fighting each other with fists or open hands, or WWE body slamming each other. (I would prefer no one was violent or mean towards anyone on earth. In a perfect world. So, that includes men fighting men.)

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fair enough, just checking on your agreement to the post

I was thinking more a long the lines of pressures placed on men. Take for example the term "loser." It's really only applied to males (of any age). Or taking being "a man." That's accomplished and can be lost, whereas for females they simply age into being "women" and it can never be lost.

Women physically don't look so different than they did in the 1950s.

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then you aren't looking

women look much, much different than they did in the 50's

your example below is prime...look at her butt, look at her chest...that is not "normal" She has been enhanced.

botoxed lips, chest implants, butt implants...false nails, lots of women do "work" on their bodies

how many males or females went to the gym 3 to 5 times a week in the 50's?

now it is standard

Men? Yes and no. I guess the average dude looks no different than the average cat from the 1950s

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. yes they do, fat wise for the general population the western world is obese...that was not present at the same number that it is now

But from the NFL to professional baseball men have gotten way "jacked" from what even the top male athletes were in the 1940s and '50s.

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and look at the women they partner...it is not your average girl

I mean look... our supplements and knowledge has improved enough that you can get bigger than dudes in the 1950s without steroids (or the other crazy stuff they take). That's true. So, I don't want to make it sound like all muscularly big dudes got so by steroids along with pumping iron. No. But you can only get so big "naturally", while being "chiseled."

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same as a woman's breasts, butt, flat belly, lips that look like a ducks...hair that is bleached, etc.

A lot of male movie actors have taken them too. Sorry, it is true. How do I know? It is incredibly hard for most people to gain muscle mass. Particular while maintaining low body fat. You can do it but it will take years. When you are skinny and they want you to pack on muscle in 5 months for a movie, and you emerge 5 months latter looking pretty bulky and cut, the odds are extremely high you "juiced."

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males and females...it's the industry they are in, youth and perfection

So, what I'm saying here is that the world of men is far more competitive and unforgiving.

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no, it is not

The most women have to worry about is complaining about how their butt looks in a pair of jeans, or that they have to apply make up. That's why the lady in the video with Rich looks like any woman from the 1950s in fitness but Rich looks like a tank compared to the top and most elite men of the 1950s.

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You are completely wrong here.

Western societal expectation have changed from the 50's period...of course it would...that is over 6 decades ago, more than half of a century.

_Sal said:

:mrgreen:

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Glad you can appreciate that attempt at humor.

then you aren't looking

women look much, much different than they did in the 50's

your example below is prime...look at her butt, look at her chest...that is not "normal" She has been enhanced.

botoxed lips, chest implants, butt implants...false nails, lots of women do "work" on their bodies

how many males or females went to the gym 3 to 5 times a week in the 50's?

now it is standard

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Are you talking about the woman with Rich Piana? Her butt looks fine. I think she has breast implants though.

But you do have a fair point about the rise of cosmetic surgery and cosmetic enhancement (like botox in the lips and face) among women since the 1950s.

I think you are probably right about the increased rise in the fitness industry and I suspect increased hours spent in gyms by more of the population. But in this latter case I think the rise has been among both sexes.

Rich Piana by the way... since we are talking "botox lips" etc., has injected that oil I was talking earlier cabout into his muscles too. I couldn't remember the name until googling it up. It's Synthol. I thought his triceps looked "fat" and shot up with oil. I'm happy this stuff was not around or popular at least, back in the 1980s and early 1990s when I used to lift with some dedication. Now I listen to youtube and hear people are shooting insulin into themselves too. Some think it explains the rise of the "bubble gut" among bodybuilders. But non-body building men (and teens) are shooting insulin into themselves. Actually, the number of things a single individual is taking at times is crazy. And I would say steroids are the least of their problems.








I really don't know who Bostin Loyd is per se. But I see some older bodybuilders are irked with him. Rich Piana seems to have had a falling out with him. And like Rich he is open on the internet about all he drug use. Apparently, he takes an insane amount of different things. But important in the bottom video too is how the guy says he would have fought you in his teens if you told him Arnold used steroids before. Of course, he found out much later that Arnold did. All those "true Americans" and "idols" did.

Why am I bringing this up? Well... most men and women think very few big men take steroids or other substances in conjunction with hard work. And they think only women "risk their health" to achieve "greatness."

Now, be sure a man with good genetics can get huge muscles all naturally. But here is the thing. #1 It will take years of hard work, and by years I mean over a decade. It will take proper diet of stuffing your face (which is a workout itself). #2 It's is extremely unlikely you can pack on *massive* amount of muscle while at the same time getting "cut," that is to say losing body fat. I gained weight and reduced my body fat over 3 months like I said but consider I only added on 10 pounds of body weight in 3 months. Not all of that could have been *dry* muscle weight either. Admittedly, I don't have the genetics for rapidly packing on muscle. Nonetheless, if a guy gets both ripped and his muscles are swollen dramatically in size from what they where 6 or 8 months ago odds are he did not achieve that "naturally." But will still claim to be 100% "natural." So, the lie and deception makes Americans think only women are going 200% at radically changing their bodies.

FastPace said:

Glad you can appreciate that attempt at humor.

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always :thumbs:

Are you talking about the woman with Rich Piana? Her butt looks fine. I think she has breast implants though.

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yes there is no doubt about the boob job

But you do have a fair point about the rise of cosmetic surgery and cosmetic enhancement (like botox in the lips and face) among women since the 1950s.

I think you are probably right about the increased rise in the fitness industry and I suspect increased hours spent in gyms by more of the population. But in this latter case I think the rise has been among both sexes.

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it is definetely both sexes and "most" have a healthy mind set and good balanced approach

Rich Piana by the way... since we are talking "botox lips" etc., has injected that oil I was talking earlier cabout into his muscles too. I couldn't remember the name until googling it up. It's Synthol. I thought his triceps looked "fat" and shot up with oil. I'm happy this stuff was not around or popular at least, back in the 1980s and early 1990s when I used to lift with some dedication.

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yes there's all kinds of wrong about his approach...to me he looks freakish but body building is a different world especially serious body building.

I know someone who got into it for her 60th birthday...she did a fine job and looks amazing. She eats well with lots of protein etc. But she has a balanced approach

Now I listen to youtube and hear people are shooting insulin into themselves too. Some think it explains the rise of the "bubble gut" among bodybuilders. But non-body building men (and teens) are shooting insulin into themselves. Actually, the number of things a single individual is taking at times is crazy. And I would say steroids are the least of their problems.

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anything which requires an extreme approach attracts people with extreme views...always interesting

I really don't know who Bostin Loyd is per se. But I see some older bodybuilders are irked with him. Rich Piana seems to have had a falling out with him. And like Rich he is open on the internet about all he drug use. Apparently, he takes an insane amount of different things. But important in the bottom video too is how the guy says he would have fought you in his teens if you told him Arnold used steroids before. Of course, he found out much later that Arnold did. All those "true Americans" and "idols" did.

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I defended Lance Armstrong until there was no defense left...we like to believe in heroes who are honest

reality is the competitive sport has such profound pressure to succeed due to sponsorship and $$ that is only logical

Why am I bringing this up? Well... most men and women think very few big men take steroids or other substances in conjunction with hard work. And they think only women "risk their health" to achieve "greatness."

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I think in this day and age we all know what they do and have for decades only so much can be done with one's genetics.

Now, be sure a man with good genetics can get huge muscles all naturally. But here is the thing. #1 It will take years of hard work, and by years I mean over a decade. It will take proper diet of stuffing your face (which is a workout itself). #2 It's is extremely unlikely you can pack on *massive* amount of muscle while at the same time getting "cut," that is to say losing body fat. I gained weight and reduced my body fat over 3 months like I said but consider I only added on 10 pounds of body weight in 3 months. Not all of that could have been *dry* muscle weight either. Admittedly, I don't have the genetics for rapidly packing on muscle. Nonetheless, if a guy gets both ripped and his muscles are swollen dramatically in size from what they where 6 or 8 months ago odds are he did not achieve that "naturally." But will still claim to be 100% "natural." So, the lie and deception makes Americans think only women are going 200% at radically changing their bodies.

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it's all a lie when money is involved. :mrgreen:

It is hardly standard for either men or women to get enhancements or go to the gym. lol If it was there wouldn't be an ass ton of fat people.

_Sal said:

. yes they do, fat wise for the general population the western world is obese...that was not present at the same number that it is now

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:lol: Yeah, I have to admit dudes are fatter now, particularly once they hit their 30s.

Dudes are in general muscularly *much* larger in the USA today than what the men of the 1950s and earlier were. That is even true of the military. The men of the US military back then looked thin with little muscle compared to the walking beefcakes of today's military. The Navy SEALs in particular seem to have a strong culture of muscularity. The US Marines to a lesser extent (but far more than most European military branches) but nonetheless US Marines still have quite a lot of muscularly large men walking around.

Chesty Puller perhaps the most famous US Marine. Named so because of his broad chest, had less muscle on his chest than I did in my prime (or now I think as well) in the Marines and I was a short and slender Marine. Two curses on me.

and look at the women they partner...it is not your average girl

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The women are in above average looks. But the women did zero to look like that other than expending a tiny amount of energy buying, putting on clothing, and putting on make up.

Those NFL players had to squat weights, dead lift, do bear crawls, hit and push sleds, run sprints to get where they are physically.

Squats alone are a seriously hard workout. Just that alone. I hate squats but I did them to gain weight during that period of 3 months.

Biologically, "work" is an issue of use of calories in your body. Squatting weights, even light weights, uses up far more calories than sitting in a chair letting some woman do your hair and make up, or trying on jeans and looking at your butt in the mirror. Women only think they have it "harder" because they have zero clue what real hard labor is. You can save money and lose 100 pounds of fat in 12 months working *no more* harder than I did to gain 10 pounds of weight (which was not all dry muscle weight) in 3 months. And it cost me more money to do that because I had to spend money to increased my protein and calorie intake. Eating became another workout for me.

But in the popular male and female feminist mind I had it sooooooo easy and some woman doing no more than trying on jeans and complaining about her butt in the mirror have it soooooo hard.

same as a woman's breasts, butt, flat belly, lips that look like a ducks...hair that is bleached, etc.

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:lol: @ "lips that look like a ducks."

Very few women get breast implants. Actually, more biological men like Bruce Jenner are probably getting female breast implants more often than biological females now. You know... how feminist claim one is "healthy" and needs to be applauded and the other is unhealthy and said women need to be ridiculed and shamed for getting breast implants which is a product of "patriarchy" oppression.

A lot of women get their hair done though. And it costs a lot of money too.

I don't know... you have some men and women getting addicted to cosmetic surgery--like Michael Jackson was--but they have to have the $$$ to afford that. Like this dude and the girl in the video.

males and females...it's the industry they are in, youth and perfection

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No, I'm talking specifically about taking steroids, male actors doing so for roles that require they pack on muscle. Female actresses don't do that. This is not an issue of "youthful" looking.

_Sal said:

no, it is not

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Eh, yeah it is. A girl has her period she is a woman. No rape no nothing can ever take her womanhood from her.

Both men and women frequently deride other males as "not being *real men*" because to be a man is a constant protection of your manhood and/or accomplishing things. And you can lose being "a man."

Both men and women unite to worry about how all girls and women are emotionally. Their emotional and psychological health is of the utmost importance.

Few to no one gives a damn about the emotional and psychological well being of boys or men. You either win or you lose. And the suicide rates and homicide rates evidence this greater competitive pressure among boys and men.

You are completely wrong here.

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Naturally acquired combination of muscle mass and low body fat/high definition. Notice how the dude radically shrunk down in size (first video).



Does that look like these dudes when they were both massive and "ripped" (and by competition time those body builders are down to a *dangerous* level of 3% body fat, almost no water in their body, and their kidney's probably on the verge of shutting down)?




That's a problem I have with steroid use, particularly as a crutch to lean on for years, once you get off it you loose at least 50% of your gains if not more. Because you had been pumping more testosterone into your body than your body naturally produces. So, once you get off that stuff your body can not produce enough testosterone to support the maintenance of those massive muscles.

Aside from female bodybuilders, no regular women look out of the human norm. But men that don't compete in bodybuilding do at times because they are on steroids, too, fort the looks.

Western societal expectation have changed from the 50's period...of course it would...that is over 6 decades ago, more than half of a century.

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Western societal expectations have decreased for females. Back in the 1950s at minimum girls and women were pressured to have personal responsibility. Male and female feminist fight and demand now that all females be absolved of any and all personal responsibility.

By nature of being born, a female is celebrated in the West as "strong," "beautiful," "smart" and so on. No such privilege exists for boys or men. So, things have gotten easier for females.

Henrin said:

It is hardly standard for either men or women to get enhancements or go to the gym. lol If it was there wouldn't be an ass ton of fat people.

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Yeah, all 3 of us agree on that.

But I will say, teenage boys engage in a lot of pumping iron. Or that was the case when I was a teen in the 1980s.

Henrin said:

It is hardly standard for either men or women to get enhancements or go to the gym. lol If it was there wouldn't be an ass ton of fat people.

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it's standard (average) in my world to keep one's self fit physically and mentally, choose food wisely and in moderation, stay well groomed etc...even the 80 yea olds in my building are in the pool daily, and attend exercise class (organized by the building) twice a week and they aren't exceptional, just average people

perhaps not for the general population but many

FastPace said:

:lol: Yeah, I have to admit dudes are fatter now, particularly once they hit their 30s.

Dudes are in general muscularly *much* larger in the USA today than what the men of the 1950s and earlier were. That is even true of the military. The men of the US military back then looked thin with little muscle compared to the walking beefcakes of today's military. The Navy SEALs in particular seem to have a strong culture of muscularity. The US Marines to a lesser extent (but far more than most European military branches) but nonetheless US Marines still have quite a lot of muscularly large men walking around.

Chesty Puller perhaps the most famous US Marine. Named so because of his broad chest, had less muscle on his chest than I did in my prime (or now I think as well) in the Marines and I was a short and slender Marine. Two curses on me.






The women are in above average looks. But the women did zero to look like that other than expending a tiny amount of energy buying, putting on clothing, and putting on make up.

Those NFL players had to squat weights, dead lift, do bear crawls, hit and push sleds, run sprints to get where they are physically.

Squats alone are a seriously hard workout. Just that alone. I hate squats but I did them to gain weight during that period of 3 months.

Biologically, "work" is an issue of use of calories in your body. Squatting weights, even light weights, uses up far more calories than sitting in a chair letting some woman do your hair and make up, or trying on jeans and looking at your butt in the mirror. Women only think they have it "harder" because they have zero clue what real hard labor is. You can save money and lose 100 pounds of fat in 12 months working *no more* harder than I did to gain 10 pounds of weight (which was not all dry muscle weight) in 3 months. And it cost me more money to do that because I had to spend money to increased my protein and calorie intake. Eating became another workout for me.

But in the popular male and female feminist mind I had it sooooooo easy and some woman doing no more than trying on jeans and complaining about her butt in the mirror have it soooooo hard.





:lol: @ "lips that look like a ducks."

Very few women get breast implants. Actually, more biological men like Bruce Jenner are probably getting female breast implants more often than biological females now. You know... how feminist claim one is "healthy" and needs to be applauded and the other is unhealthy and said women need to be ridiculed and shamed for getting breast implants which is a product of "patriarchy" oppression.

A lot of women get their hair done though. And it costs a lot of money too.

I don't know... you have some men and women getting addicted to cosmetic surgery--like Michael Jackson was--but they have to have the $$$ to afford that. Like this dude and the girl in the video.







No, I'm talking specifically about taking steroids, male actors doing so for roles that require they pack on muscle. Female actresses don't do that. This is not an issue of "youthful" looking.

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um that woman he married is a body builder she did more than buy a few clothes...my friend took a year to get her old body in shape...but she did it

female actresses most certainly body build

with all due respect, I don't think you have your finger on the pulse of the average middle class woman

FastPace said:

Yeah, all 3 of us agree on that.

But I will say, teenage boys engage in a lot of pumping iron. Or that was the case when I was a teen in the 1980s.

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Most teen boys do not. Now I did start working out when I was teenager, but then I was also in football at the time. Of course, the reason I joined the team was so I could get access to the gym.

Dragonfly said:

The old biddy at the pool was being mean.

She said, "the men at the pool would feel more comfortable if I was in a one-piece swim suit because a bikini isn't appropriate for a mother, especially one who's "still recovering,"

That's all bull crap.

Why would the woman lie about how the men felt? How would she even know?

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I see a lot of people I wish were wearing more clothing. I don't think most of us find large expanses of saggy blubber a very attractive sight. Decorum and shame no longer seem to mean much to tens of millions of people in this country, and it doesn't take a Miss Manners to lament the fact we are fast becoming a nation of slobs.

Henrin said:

Most teen boys do not. Now I did start working out when I was teenager, but then I was also in football at the time. Of course, the reason I joined the team was so I could get access to the gym.

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Maybe not nowadays. With the rise in the popularity of portable video games (e.g., cellphones). Even the ones you can play on your TV make the Pac-Man video game I came up with look ancient. What was that other one I liked? Space Invaders I think? Can't remember, so long ago.

We used to be outside and active when I was a grade school kid and high schooler. As for lifting weights I started when I was in grade school. I was probably in the 5th or 6th grade when I started. And had no idea what I was doing. :lol: Got me stronger though over years.





This young man started when he was still very young too. I believe he said he started at age 13 and started his photographic progress then. If I had to guess I would say more teenage boys in athletics not only lift but more of them are on steroids, at least, if this online controversy with this Bostin Loyd is true.

I'm going to tell you from a libertarian stand point--particularly with sports--competition has not gotten easier it has gotten harder. Increasingly they are started young like Tiger Woods, Floyd Mayweather, Oscar Dela Hoya. Starting at age 16 today is starting late in competitive sports.



I like this young man's way of thinking. Apparently, he is around a lot of young men not only pumping iron but on steroids.

William Rea said:

Bullcrap, if we were acting on evolution we would be attracted to women with wide hips and a good excess of fat.

I will throw the thought out there that the obsession with wide eyed, skinny and androgynous women is a form of covert paedophilia and homosexuality.

The fact that overweight women are attractive in some cultures shows how absurd any kind of evolutionary explanation for this is.

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Personally, I like for women to have curves, but for the vast, vast majority of human existence, obesity or even carrying a moderate amount of body fat was completely unheard of. Food for hunter gathers is far too scarce, and activity levels are too high, to maintain even modest amounts of fat. From a evolutionary / biological perspective for most of human history men would have been attracted to women that had actually had enough body fat to be fertile as extremely low fat levels are a limit to fertility. Body types for better than 97% of human existence ranged from completely emaciated to very skinny.

_Sal said:

um that woman he married is a body builder she did more than buy a few clothes...my friend took a year to get her old body in shape...but she did it

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What woman married to whom are you talking about?

As for your female friend I don't doubt she did. My point was never that the Williams sisters are not in shape or that there are no women playing soccer competitively, basketball, doing bodybuilding or ballet.

My point was that women don't have to do jack and are given the privilege to complain. And that it is assumed (which it is) that losing body fat is faaaaaaaar more difficult than building muscle mass. Such women then are assumed de facto to be using more calories to change their appearance then the amount of calories I had to burn to gain weight while simultaneously cutting my body fat (it was probably at 21% or more, I did not originally measure it) to 19% of my body weight.

female actresses most certainly body build

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Some of them do for certain roles. They cut body fat though and become "ripped." My point was about male actors likely using steroids when they have to both gain *muscle mass* and *reduce body fat* in a short span of time for a role in a movie.

There is a point why I bring this up. It is to see *reality* rather than to have "glasses on" which distorts things to the point of being deceptive. It's like the red pill vs blue pill thing in the movie The Matrix.



So, why is any of that important? For the same reason I would say a Democrat would view Republicans having a distorted view of things, believing deceptions, and not seeing reality is harmful. Like education and health care and what the *reasonably* expect the poor to achieve in goals. Likewise, I like many young boys in the 1980s believed all those professional body builders like Arnold and Lee Haney were natural throughout their careers. So, we tried buying the supplements they advertised and we did the stupid triceps kickbacks they swore by in muscle mags that gave them their huge triceps.

Some get discouraged and give up.

When you can see closer to reality you can better adjust your *expectations* and *goals* reasonably. Likewise, society can adjust its *expectations.*

with all due respect, I don't think you have your finger on the pulse of the average middle class woman

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The average guy my age (not all, just the "average") in America has a lot more fat on him than me. This is in large part due to the fact I have always been cursed with a very high metabolism. So, that curse kind of has worked as a blessing these later years in life.

And the average American woman, middle-class or not (again, not all but the "average") has done jack physically compared to me. And I was never the most competitive or active guy. But genetically I would be the most skinny guy around with zero visible muscles at all. So, everything I got (as little as it may be) I worked extremely hard to get.

I've had some liberal men that have made "liberal feminist" statements to me, assuming I de facto had to agree, about how "hard" women have it because their wife or daughter spent 30 minutes worrying about how she looked in some clothes she put on. But that dude was never with me farmer carrying 45 pound plates in each hand. Doing "Breathing Squats" for 20 reps. Or running in 10 degrees below 0 weather with a windchill far lower than that as the wind blows cutting across my face. So damn cold my CD player (this was years ago) froze and wouldn't work :lol: so long as I remained out doors. But my body and will outlasted advanced technology and can slowly jogging through the freezing Wisconsin tundra.

So, that dude like other feminist dudes like him simply assume I was born with the little defined muscles on my chest and arms I have. They don't know I actually had to build them. Why, "because their daughter or wife looked in a mirror and complained about how her butt looked, and how boys or men never worry about their looks or have to do anything for it."




If I ever want to improve my physique that will be up to me to take action and commitment to do.

I have no desire to be mammoth (couldn't be anyways) and more or less I'd rather acquire a physique more along the lines of his (it can't be exactly like his):

FastPace said:

What woman married to whom are you talking about?

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piana and they aren't together now anyway

My point was that women don't have to do jack and are given the privilege to complain.

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I know, and you are wrong...you are limiting yourself strictly to the world of body building, so you are wrong.

you don't get it at all which is why you agreed with Henrin....you are limiting your understanding and projecting it onto every aspect of western society

see below...your own words

And the average American woman, middle-class or not (again, not all but the "average") has done jack physically compared to me.

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I've had some liberal men that have made "liberal feminist" statements to me, assuming I de facto had to agree, about how "hard" women have it because their wife or daughter spent 30 minutes worrying about how she looked in some clothes she put on. But that dude was never with me farmer carrying 45 pound plates in each hand. Doing "Breathing Squats" for 20 reps. Or running in 10 degrees below 0 weather with a windchill far lower than that as the wind blows cutting across my face. So damn cold my CD player (this was years ago) froze and wouldn't work :lol: so long as I remained out doors. But my body and will outlasted advanced technology and can slowly jogging through the freezing Wisconsin tundra.

So, that dude like other feminist dudes like him simply assume I was born with the little defined muscles on my chest and arms I have. They don't know I actually had to build them. Why, "because their daughter or wife looked in a mirror and complained about how her butt looked, and how boys or men never worry about their looks or have to do anything for it."

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yeah it must be all about you

If I ever want to improve my physique that will be up to me to take action and commitment to do.

I have no desire to be mammoth (couldn't be anyways) and more or less I'd rather acquire a physique more along the lines of his (it can't be exactly like his):

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yup...women have it easy...it's just about you...I get it...I really "get it" finally...took me a bit but oh yeah I got it now

matchlight said:

I see a lot of people I wish were wearing more clothing. I don't think most of us find large expanses of saggy blubber a very attractive sight. Decorum and shame no longer seem to mean much to tens of millions of people in this country, and it doesn't take a Miss Manners to lament the fact we are fast becoming a nation of slobs.

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Tough. Other people aren't here to be attractive to you. You don't like it, don't go to places where people wear bathing suits. That makes much more sense than you expecting other people to stay covered up to protect your delicate sensibilities.