• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same god.

Elvira said:
"For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." Matthew 12:32

"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition." Hebrews 10:26,27

"For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks for that.

I didn't realize there were 'fine print' exceptions. It would be more accurate for Christians to claim that accepting Jesus as their lord and savior will wipe away most of their sins. Results may vary.
 
Lisa said:
The Muslim Jesus provides common ground for Christianity, Islam | National Catholic Reporter
Click to expand...

Also from the link:

The Quran specifically protects Jews and Christians as Peoples of the Book, the "Book" meaning revelations from God to Jews and Christians which gives them a spiritual connection to Islam.
Click to expand...

Aaaaand here we go. This is a bare-faced lie. "The People of the Book" are frequently mentioned, yes, but almost entirely in derogatory terms, and they sure as hell are NOT protected (unless they surrender and pay the jizyah).

Getting back to context, the last word from the Qur'an on fighting came in the last couple of years of Mohamed's life - verse 9:29 to be exact. It says:

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

I would really like to see well intentioned people such as you get angry when they're lied to so blatantly. This white-washing of Islamic scripture has to be exposed if we have any hope of understanding why Islamic jihad exists.
 
stevecanuck said:
All you have to do to prove me wrong is to provide a quote from scripture in which limits to God's forgiveness are given. Easy peasy.
Click to expand...

God is willing to forgive all who are sincere and repent for everything EXCEPT denying Him.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Christians claim to be monotheistic, however there is a monkey wrench in there.

We have God, Jesus,

We have the saints,( lesser Gods), yes people pray to them because of their magical powers.
St Jude for health, St Christopher for travel, etc. etc.

A rose by any other name, is still a rose.
Click to expand...

Saints are not gods. They are venerated for their holiness and living a "Christlike" life.
 
Magdalene said:
God is willing to forgive all who are sincere and repent for everything EXCEPT denying Him.
Click to expand...

So, a mass murderer who "finds Jesus" at the end of his life goes to heaven while an atheist who spends his life helping the poor goes to hell. Wow.
 
Lisa said:
The Muslim Jesus provides common ground for Christianity, Islam | National Catholic Reporter
Click to expand...

from the link:

It would surprise many to know that the Prophet Muhammad is only mentioned a total of four times in the Quran while Jesus, the son of Mary, is mentioned 25 times and Moses 136 times. The Quran dedicates a whole chapter to Mary, who is the only woman mentioned by name in the sacred text.
Click to expand...

Not an outright lie; just the epitome of sophistry. Mohamed is only named four times, but he is referred to hundreds of times. Every verse that includes the word "say", is telling Mohamed what to preach. Most verses that contain the word "you" are referring to Mohamed. He is also frequently called "messenger", "prophet", "warner", and "guide". Just look at 9:29 again and you'll see, "His messenger".

I urge you to not believe anything you hear about Islam that you can't verify. You WILL be lied to on a regular basis. That's why I try my best to provide an explanation for everything I post.
 
Magdalene said:
God is willing to forgive all who are sincere and repent for everything EXCEPT denying Him.
Click to expand...

That's sounds like an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful god to you? Someone who is so totally butthurt that if you don't kiss his feet he's going to torture you for eternity? You do realize that makes him infinitely more evil than Hitler right? That's the nature of infinite.

Yeah, definitely the same evil god, bent on killing anyone and everyone who doesn't agree to be part of the cult.
 
Last edited:
Lisa said:
The Muslim Jesus provides common ground for Christianity, Islam | National Catholic Reporter
Click to expand...

And finally:

Naturally there are theological differences between Muslims and Christians regarding Jesus but there are far more similarities and these similarities are what should be emphasized in order to show the common ground between these two faiths, which together represent 4.1 billion followers worldwide and 55.3 percent of the world's population.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example of the false hope that can be concocted by employing half truths. The problem is that saying God had a son is "telling a lie concerning God", which is described thus, "And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?" (29:68). There are many other verses that say the same thing. This is the deal-breaker that renders all the similarities moot.
 
WCH said:
Limits to Forgiveness
Click to expand...
The only one being you better worship me ir else eternity in hell. Not a forgiving or loving god at all. Clearly an egotistical tyrant who is looking for praise. I'll pass. Hell would likely be better.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
stevecanuck said:
And finally:



This is a perfect example of the false hope that can be concocted by employing half truths. The problem is that saying God had a son is "telling a lie concerning God", which is described thus, "And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?" (29:68). There are many other verses that say the same thing. This is the deal-breaker that renders all the similarities moot.
Click to expand...

We also have Allah having 3 daughters, but that was when he was the moon God, married to the sun god. Al Lat, Al, Usnia, and Manat, ( probably bad spelling)
some traces of it followed into the Qur'an, but most was obliterated.
These were main Gods in lesser Kab'ba's. Hubal was the main God.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
We also have Allah having 3 daughters, but that was when he was the moon God, married to the sun god. Al Lat, Al, Usnia, and Manat, ( probably bad spelling)
some traces of it followed into the Qur'an, but most was obliterated.
These were main Gods in lesser Kab'ba's. Hubal was the main God.
Click to expand...

OF course, the word 'Allah' is a generic word meaning "God". Arab Christians use that term to describe the Christian God. The sites that push that arguments are not very scholarly, and tend to be highly prejudicial.
 
RAMOSS said:
OF course, the word 'Allah' is a generic word meaning "God". Arab Christians use that term to describe the Christian God. The sites that push that arguments are not very scholarly, and tend to be highly prejudicial.
Click to expand...

Actually Allah, in many variations of spelling and pronunciations was in fact used for God by many different religions of the time, including some Christian sects.

However in Islam, "Ilih" means God, and Allah is God's name.

Nobody knows exactly when it shows up in Islam and is written into the religion.
Except for the 4 line prayer, added to precede each chapter, It shows up over halfway through the Qur'an.
 
Yasureoktoo said:
Actually Allah, in many variations of spelling and pronunciations was in fact used for God by many different religions of the time, including some Christian sects.

However in Islam, "Ilih" means God, and Allah is God's name.

Nobody knows exactly when it shows up in Islam and is written into the religion.
Except for the 4 line prayer, added to precede each chapter, It shows up over halfway through the Qur'an.
Click to expand...

Despite your otherwise impressive knowledge of Islam, I believe you have this wrong. You're right that اله is pronounced Ilih, and that it means god in the generic sense. For example, a person speaking Arabic would use it if he asked if Jains had a god. However, when you put 'the' (ال) in front of it make الله, you have simply said, "The god". It's not a name, but a description.

Also, 'allah' appears in the first surah chronologically, which is surah 96.
 
RAMOSS said:
OF course, the word 'Allah' is a generic word meaning "God". Arab Christians use that term to describe the Christian God. The sites that push that arguments are not very scholarly, and tend to be highly prejudicial.
Click to expand...

You may be interested in the response I just made to Yasur in the above post.
 
stevecanuck said:
Despite your otherwise impressive knowledge of Islam, I believe you have this wrong. You're right that اله is pronounced Ilih, and that it means god in the generic sense. For example, a person speaking Arabic would use it if he asked if Jains had a god. However, when you put 'the' (ال) in front of it make الله, you have simply said, "The god". It's not a name, but a description.

Also, 'allah' appears in the first surah chronologically, which is surah 96.
Click to expand...

That was a good call, you were on your toes, but lets take a look.

Actually sura 1 is added to the Qur'an as an opening prayer.
also the first line is not part of the sura, an add-on
I think I pointed that out.
The Qur'an starts with Sura 2
It is arranged from longest to shortest.
As you will see through the Qur'an the first god, Muhammeds God, is Ar Ramon.

The dead calf's belly said, 'There is no ilah but Allah.'" Tabari VI:75


First sura
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most MercifulR
1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-R
2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
3 Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
5 Taught man that which he knew not.
6 Nay, but man doth transgress all bounds,R
7 In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.
8 Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).
9 Seest thou one who forbids-
10 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
11 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
12 Or enjoins Righteousness?
13 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
14 Knoweth he not that God doth see?
15 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
16 A lying, sinful forelock!C
17 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):
18 We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!
19 Nay, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to God)!R
 
Last edited:
Yasureoktoo said:
That was a good call, you were on your toes, but lets take a look.

Actually sura 1 is added to the Qur'an as an opening prayer.
also the first line is not part of the sura, an add-on
I think I pointed that out.
The Qur'an starts with Sura 2
It is arranged from longest to shortest.
As you will see through the Qur'an the first god, Muhammeds God, is Ar Ramon.

The dead calf's belly said, 'There is no ilah but Allah.'" Tabari VI:75


First sura
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most MercifulR
1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-R
2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
3 Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
5 Taught man that which he knew not.
6 Nay, but man doth transgress all bounds,R
7 In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.
8 Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).
9 Seest thou one who forbids-
10 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
11 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
12 Or enjoins Righteousness?
13 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
14 Knoweth he not that God doth see?
15 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
16 A lying, sinful forelock!C
17 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):
18 We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!
19 Nay, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to God)!R
Click to expand...

Verse 14 uses the Arabic word 'Allah'.
 
stevecanuck said:
Verse 14 uses the Arabic word 'Allah'.
Click to expand...

What translation are you using.


At this point I am not going to say who is right and who is wrong, but lets look at this.

14 above does not have it in it.
Please post your sura.
 
Last edited:
Yasureoktoo said:
This comes up a lot, in a hand wave type of logic.
The God of Abraham

The Jews invented the God as we know it, granted much info came from previous religions, Summarian, etc.
They have the patient on it.

The Christians stole the God from the Jews,
added more Gods to it, changed the rules, and turned on the Jews.

The Muslims then stole the God,
eliminated the Christian Gods, instilled their own prophet,
changed the rules again, and turned on the Jews and the Christians.


Now God is either a wishy/washy schizophrenic, who simply cannot make up his mind.

Or they are different Gods.
Click to expand...

Christians worship Jesus
 
Yasureoktoo said:
What translation are you using.


At this point I am not going to say who is right and who is wrong, but lets look at this.

14 above does not have it in it.
Please post your sura.
Click to expand...



I'm not using a translation. I'm looking at the Arabic word الله

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation (click on word by word on the left and scroll down to verse 14).
 
stevecanuck said:
I'm not using a translation. I'm looking at the Arabic word الله

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation (click on word by word on the left and scroll down to verse 14).
Click to expand...


I don't speak Arabic and at this point I am not going to stick my foot in my mouth.
What I am going to do is send off a few E-mails to Robert Spencer and a couple others, for an explanation.
They always come through in matters like this.

The Sura I posted was Yusaf Ali.

I am getting different words when I look this up, so at this point I will stand corrected, and thank you.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom