• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wisconsin legislation: Teacher wanted-no degree needed

Phys251 said:
Wow. But this doesn't surprise me. When communities choose to treat teachers like crap, they flee in droves. As a related example, Wisconsin's state government recently cut a quarter of a billion dollars from its higher education fund and sent it to a new basketball arena in downtown Milwaukee.
Click to expand...

And where do these "teachers " rank ? :roll:
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Why? K-12 children are not generally being educated at a masters degree level. one does not need to know calculus to teach arithmetic.
Click to expand...

High school teachers do teach calculus and other advanced math like honors trigonometry on a college level. They need to know their stuff. Also, any teacher teaching young children (especially those who struggle) how to read need to know methodology beyond what you get in undergrad school. Yes, it is like teaching rocket science.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
High school teachers do teach calculus and other advanced math like honors trigonometry on a college level. They need to know their stuff. Also, any teacher teaching young children (especially those who struggle) how to read need to know methodology beyond what you get in undergrad school. Yes, it is like teaching rocket science.
Click to expand...

and those types of topics will not be taught by non college graduates.
 
cpwill said:
Ah. it's my personal philosophy that we should attempt to hire for the job of teaching that person who would be best at the job. We've become obsessed with credentials to the point of losing sight of what they were supposed to indicate.



Full Disclosure: I have two Masters Degrees, and am currently back in school for an Education degree.
Click to expand...

People who are best suited for the job have a keen knowledge of childhood development, and how the brain develops. They also have a keen knowledge in how to diversify curricula for a wide range of learners. They need to know the subject matter they are teaching including reading and phonological development if teaching young children. They need to be trained how to work with children who struggle due to a host of problems including learning disabilities. I can go on and on but I think you get my drift. Some person who has a high school diploma is very limited in their scope of how complex teaching a room full of children is including how to assess and plan for a host of interventions. That is if one is a good teacher.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
depends upon what they're teaching.

in many cases a college degree is not nessecary to educate. for most of our history as a country educators were not college educated,
Click to expand...

Also, educators taught homogeneous children for the most part. That no longer applies.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
People who are best suited for the job have a keen knowledge of childhood development, and how the brain develops. They also have a keen knowledge in how to diversify curricula for a wide range of learners. They need to know the subject matter they are teaching including reading and phonological development if teaching young children. They need to be trained how to work with children who struggle due to a host of problems including learning disabilities. I can go on and on but I think you get my drift. Some person who has a high school diploma is very limited in their scope of how complex teaching a room full of children is including how to assess and plan for a host of interventions. That is if one is a good teacher.
Click to expand...

To be fair, most of that isn't being expected of teachers and isn't being taught to them before (and depending on the subject, long after) they get out of the gates.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Did I say they would not? You asked
Click to expand...

But what I said is generally true. you're picking the most extreme scenario.

You do not need masters level education to teach someone to read, or to do arithmetic, or to teach basic concepts of science or to teach history.

When you start teaching honors level work maybe. but for the standard classes, it is not needed that the educator have a masters degree.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Prior to federal law and many years after it went through, children with severe learning disabilities were not included in many general education classes.
Click to expand...

They really should not be now.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
It should be mandatory.
Click to expand...

Glad you feel that way, because when I say it, educational leaders think I'm a radical and scores of ground-level instructors look at you like a kook for saying a great deal more needs to be expected of them, not less.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
They really should not be now.
Click to expand...

Heh. Bro, if diagnosis was strictly destiny, I wouldn't have graduated with my class, wouldn't have gone to university, wouldn't have taught high school students, wouldn't have gone to graduate school, and wouldn't be advising educational leaders today.
 
cpwill said:
Full Disclosure: I have two Masters Degrees, and am currently back in school for an Education degree.
Click to expand...

...and that does not indicate if you will be a good teacher or not...
 
Fiddytree said:
Heh. Bro, if diagnosis was strictly destiny, I wouldn't have graduated with my class, wouldn't have gone to university, wouldn't have taught high school students, wouldn't have gone to graduate school, and wouldn't be advising educational leaders today.
Click to expand...

But when we're talking people with severe learning disabilities to where they cannot be taught in a standard class, they need help and specialized education, not to be set up for failure.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
But what I said is generally true. you're picking the most extreme scenario.

You do not need masters level education to teach someone to read, or to do arithmetic, or to teach basic concepts of science or to teach history.

When you start teaching honors level work maybe. but for the standard classes, it is not needed that the educator have a masters degree.
Click to expand...

No, but you certainly won't be very good at it when faced with a child who suffers from a severe reading disability or dyscalculia. You rarely get in depth learning about either of those topics unless you have an advanced degree or at the very least learning above a bachelor's degree.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
But when we're talking people with severe learning disabilities to where they cannot be taught in a standard class, they need help and specialized education, not to be set up for failure.
Click to expand...

Classroom teachers are expected to be able to have knowledge in how to help them.
 
Fiddytree said:
Glad you feel that way, because when I say it, educational leaders think I'm a radical and scores of ground-level instructors look at you like a kook for saying a great deal more needs to be expected of them, not less.
Click to expand...

Keep fighting the good fight!
 
EMNofSeattle said:
But when we're talking people with severe learning disabilities to where they cannot be taught in a standard class, they need help and specialized education, not to be set up for failure.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I was once among that grouping and my disabilities long impacted my education: especially when an instructor did not know how to deliver the information in a manner I understood. LRE is a fluid placement regime that places de facto expectation on a student being in the general education classroom to the extent possible (including all necessary supports and services) for meaningful educational opportunities to be delivered to said student. If that cannot be done in vanilla gen Ed classroom and with other supports in place, then they produce varying levels of options.
 
Socrates1 said:
And where do these "teachers " rank ? :roll:
Click to expand...

Maybe you should ask them instead of flippantly putting them in quotation marks like that.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Keep fighting the good fight!
Click to expand...

But when I say more should be expected of them, I don't mean just that they should be more resolute on self-improvement (and as a former special education student with IEPs and improvement plans his whole life, I don't have limitless amounts of sympathy for staff not wanting to spend X number of hours in hopes of self-improvement, because it's "unfair" or "exhausting"). I also mean that government and administration be much more supportive toward that end.

Given that, for instance, special education has always had a drought of job applicants, we ought to recognize that while we can't likely get the numbers up to demand, there's much else that can be done.

Despite paperwork being paramount of importance and despite that being a prime reason for sped burnout and resignations, only 40-some percent of sped instructors have assistants to help them with paperwork. These assistants cost far less to train and retain than an educator, they can probably be trained successfully to faithfully execute our needs in the information bureaucracy, but our financiers ball at the suggestion of spending more money.
 
cpwill said:
Hey! Welcome to the OP!

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Welcome to teaching... I will listen to your opinion more seriously after you teach for a few years.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Welcome to teaching... I will listen to your opinion more seriously after you teach for a few years.
Click to expand...
:shrug: three years. I will stop laughing at your ridiculous assertion when it becomes plausible :)

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom