Wisconsin legislation: Teacher wanted-no degree needed

[rabbitcaebannog]

A new proposal hatched in the Wisconsin legislature would provide significantly more flexibility in teacher hiring, allowing districts to on-board potentially even candidates without a college degrees Teaching in Wisconsin Might Not Even Require a College Degree Soon - Teaching Now - Education Week Teacher

MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Wisconsin may be the first state in the country to certify teachers who don’t have bachelor’s degrees under a provision put in the state budget, a move that has drawn widespread criticism and that Gov. Scott Walker refused to say Thursday whether he supports.
Under the change, anyone with relevant experience could be licensed to teach non-core academic subjects in grades six through 12. They would not need a bachelor’s degree and they could even be a high school dropout.
Anyone with a bachelor’s degree could be licensed to teach in core subjects of English, math, social studies or science.
The decision on whether to hire someone with the alternative certification would be up to the school district, including private schools that accept voucher students and independent charter schools. Wisconsin may be first to license teachers without degree - Washington Times

Slippery slope or not? Some states no longer require teachers to receive teacher certification anymore? In places like Utah that is because of teacher shortages. Is this the way to go?

 

[azgreg]

Not a fan of that. I'll guess we'll see how it works. Just for discussion purposes this site shows requirements for each state. I just took a quick look so I'm not sure how up to date it is.

Teaching Certification Requirements

Here in Arizona a bachelors degree is required along with the completion of a teacher preparation program for the subject matter you will teach.

 

[Phys251]

A new proposal hatched in the Wisconsin legislature would provide significantly more flexibility in teacher hiring, allowing districts to on-board potentially even candidates without a college degrees Teaching in Wisconsin Might Not Even Require a College Degree Soon - Teaching Now - Education Week Teacher

MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Wisconsin may be the first state in the country to certify teachers who don’t have bachelor’s degrees under a provision put in the state budget, a move that has drawn widespread criticism and that Gov. Scott Walker refused to say Thursday whether he supports.
Under the change, anyone with relevant experience could be licensed to teach non-core academic subjects in grades six through 12. They would not need a bachelor’s degree and they could even be a high school dropout.
Anyone with a bachelor’s degree could be licensed to teach in core subjects of English, math, social studies or science.
The decision on whether to hire someone with the alternative certification would be up to the school district, including private schools that accept voucher students and independent charter schools. Wisconsin may be first to license teachers without degree - Washington Times

Slippery slope or not? Some states no longer require teachers to receive teacher certification anymore? In places like Utah that is because of teacher shortages. Is this the way to go?

Wow. But this doesn't surprise me. When communities choose to treat teachers like crap, they flee in droves. As a related example, Wisconsin's state government recently cut a quarter of a billion dollars from its higher education fund and sent it to a new basketball arena in downtown Milwaukee.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Wow. But this doesn't surprise me. When communities choose to treat teachers like crap, they flee in droves. As a related example, Wisconsin's state government recently cut a quarter of a billion dollars from its higher education fund and sent it to a new basketball arena in downtown Milwaukee.

Yes, it shows its priorities.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Not a fan of that. I'll guess we'll see how it works. Just for discussion purposes this site shows requirements for each state. I just took a quick look so I'm not sure how up to date it is.

Teaching Certification Requirements

Here in Arizona a bachelors degree is required along with the completion of a teacher preparation program for the subject matter you will teach.

I can tell you teacher certification requirements differ depending on state. My state has very rigorous standards.

 

[longview]

I think there are classes (like shop) that could be taught by someone without a degree.
Many other vocational classes might also be available.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

This is an absolutely horrible idea that will continue to erode our already miserable education standards. We should be investing more into education and increasing teacher salaries and working conditions in order to get higher quality teachers and thus higher quality education. This is a race to the bottom.

To contrast this with Germany, my wife is finishing up her elementary school teaching degree here. It requires about as much schooling as a master's degree and involves very high level studying in two core subjects that she will be teaching, for her English and Sports. After that she has to take numerous certification exams and do 2 years of internship, just to be allowed to teach elementary school. In Germany it's a very difficult degree that not everyone gets accepted into, much less passes. Teaching should be a highly qualified and honorable position like it is in Finland, Germany, and many of the nordic countries.

tl;dr This attracts the bottom of the barrel, laziest, and lowest educated teachers, which will undoubtedly propagate to his or her students. Shame.

 

[dimensionallava]

"starve the beast" cut taxes until funding dries up for even the most popular government programs and they'll be cut.

Public schools are overrated anyway kids can learn so much more on the streets, like learning how to pickpocket

 

[earthworm]

We need to define ''degree'' . From what I have seen, education, generally has failed ..We must learn why ..

 

[earthworm]

And setting us back centuries .. to David Copperfield's time .. and conservatives cannot see this ..

 

[cpwill]

A new proposal hatched in the Wisconsin legislature would provide significantly more flexibility in teacher hiring, allowing districts to on-board potentially even candidates without a college degrees Teaching in Wisconsin Might Not Even Require a College Degree Soon - Teaching Now - Education Week Teacher

MADISON, Wis. (AP) - Wisconsin may be the first state in the country to certify teachers who don’t have bachelor’s degrees under a provision put in the state budget, a move that has drawn widespread criticism and that Gov. Scott Walker refused to say Thursday whether he supports.
Under the change, anyone with relevant experience could be licensed to teach non-core academic subjects in grades six through 12. They would not need a bachelor’s degree and they could even be a high school dropout.
Anyone with a bachelor’s degree could be licensed to teach in core subjects of English, math, social studies or science.
The decision on whether to hire someone with the alternative certification would be up to the school district, including private schools that accept voucher students and independent charter schools. Wisconsin may be first to license teachers without degree - Washington Times

Slippery slope or not? Some states no longer require teachers to receive teacher certification anymore? In places like Utah that is because of teacher shortages. Is this the way to go?

I'm a strong proponent of not requiring a Masters' in Education (a common requirement) to teach, but expertise in your subject. It strikes me that for things like Shop Class, a college degree doesn't really demonstrate how well you will perform.

 

[cpwill]

This is an absolutely horrible idea that will continue to erode our already miserable education standards. We should be investing more into education and increasing teacher salaries and working conditions in order to get higher quality teachers and thus higher quality education. This is a race to the bottom.

To contrast this with Germany, my wife is finishing up her elementary school teaching degree here. It requires about as much schooling as a master's degree and involves very high level studying in two core subjects that she will be teaching, for her English and Sports. After that she has to take numerous certification exams and do 2 years of internship, just to be allowed to teach elementary school. In Germany it's a very difficult degree that not everyone gets accepted into, much less passes. Teaching should be a highly qualified and honorable position like it is in Finland, Germany, and many of the nordic countries.

tl;dr This attracts the bottom of the barrel, laziest, and lowest educated teachers, which will undoubtedly propagate to his or her students. Shame.

Look, for the academic subjects, I think we should dramatically increase pay (and decrease out-year compensation to make up for it) in order to attract the best talent.

But the best talent doesn't necessarily mean the most credentialed. I think y0ou are overlooking:

Under the change, anyone with relevant experience could be licensed to teach non-core academic subjects in grades six through 12

I'm assuming that this doesn't mean things like math, science, history, language arts, and the like, but items like shop class, "health", Home Ec, and whatnot. How in the world does having attended college classes in Feminist Literature make one better at teaching 14 year olds how to weld, v being an experienced welder?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

"starve the beast" cut taxes until funding dries up for even the most popular government programs and they'll be cut.

Public schools are overrated anyway kids can learn so much more on the streets, like learning how to pickpocket

I agree that much of this is a result of starve the beast and let it die politics. It kills public education and leaves the door wide open to privatization.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I'm a strong proponent of not requiring a Masters' in Education (a common requirement) to teach, but expertise in your subject. It strikes me that for things like Shop Class, a college degree doesn't really demonstrate how well you will perform.

Shop class aside. I want teachers to require a Master's degree in their speciality.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I'm assuming that this doesn't mean things like math, science, history, language arts, and the like, but items like shop class, "health", Home Ec, and whatnot. How in the world does having attended college classes in Feminist Literature make one better at teaching 14 year olds how to weld, v being an experienced welder?

It goes for much more like technology, foreign language, the arts and music. Besides, who wants their shop teacher to be a high school drop out???

 

[JC Callender]

I would take insight and passion to teach over a teaching degree any day.

 

[Fiddytree]

I'm a strong proponent of not requiring a Masters' in Education (a common requirement) to teach, but expertise in your subject. It strikes me that for things like Shop Class, a college degree doesn't really demonstrate how well you will perform.

A college degree for non-core courses *may* be unnecessary, but absent much else, it would be a bad move. I'd also prefer to keep the BA/BS degree in the subject courses for core courses being taught by said teacher. While there is some critique of background preparation for science and mathematics instructors, secondary level social studies instructors are bare-bones in qualifications as it is.

 

[cpwill]

Shop class aside. I want teachers to require a Master's degree in their speciality.

:shrug: where appropriate, sure. Generally, I am less concerned with credentials than I am with capability. We should pay a larger salary for the position, and then offer wider latitude in hiring so that administrators and HR can pick from a wider variety of higher-quality candidates to find the best fits.

The Education Masters' takes the students with the lowest GRE scores, who had the lowest SAT/ACT scores, who proceed to get the best GPA's (indicating easy course work). Generally speaking, it's not a terribly impressive credential.

It goes for much more like technology, foreign language, the arts and music. Besides, who wants their shop teacher to be a high school drop out???

I imagine it would depend on the shop teacher.

My wife's uncle, for example, was (barely) a high school graduate....

...who then invented a couple of different techniques to save materials while using CAD technology to shape construction materials, and built a multi-million dollar company based on his ability to outperform and underbid his competitors. The man has a full industrial carving shop in his basement, which he mostly uses for fun.

I imagine he is probably competent to the task of teaching kids how to hammer nails.

 

[PerfectStorm]

Yes, I really wouldn't want my son to learn IT from Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.

 

[Fiddytree]

I agree that much of this is a result of starve the beast and let it die politics. It kills public education and leaves the door wide open to privatization.

Often times I wouldn't credit state legislators and executive branches that much cunning. Frequently, sometimes exacerbated by the design of the state constitution, , it is sheer short-sightedness and lack of priority that creates these situations.

 

[Fiddytree]

:shrug: where appropriate, sure. Generally, I am less concerned with credentials than I am with capability. We should pay a larger salary for the position, and then offer wider latitude in hiring so that administrators and HR can pick from a wider variety of higher-quality candidates to find the best fits.

The Education Masters' takes the students with the lowest GRE scores, who had the lowest SAT/ACT scores, who proceed to get the best GPA's (indicating easy course work). Generally speaking, it's not a terribly impressive credential.



I imagine it would depend on the shop teacher.

My wife's uncle, for example, was (barely) a high school graduate....

...who then invented a couple of different techniques to save materials while using CAD technology to shape construction materials, and built a multi-million dollar company based on his ability to outperform and underbid his competitors. The man has a full industrial carving shop in his basement, which he mostly uses for fun.

I imagine he is probably competent to the task of teaching kids how to hammer nails.

I'm sympathetic, because, in part, I was largely aligned with a former state superintendent of public instruction in my state who was quite the maverick. At the time, he was staffing his administration with businessmen, those who had business degrees, or those who had varying levels of exposure to secondary and postsecondary education. At the time, the teacher Union (who was beyond in bed with the Democratic Party-the Dem candidate rented his campaign office from the union) had been quite the credential fetishists. The newly-elected Republican superintendent said something to the effect of, "if I think I could learn from them, I'd get someone with a 4th grade education." Much of it was political, but much of it stemmed from what he viewed as "elitism." Of course, I somewhat disagreed, noticing that the unionsfelt the same way about those with superior educations or acclaim in society, but he was somewhat right.

I'm also the son of a former college drop-out who continues to demonstrate superior knowledge of the law and the various systems that kids and parents find themselves in, than the BA/BS and MA/MS crowd. They looked (and sometimes continued) to look down on her for being a "mere parent," but once the powers that be end up siding with her or find a new piece of information from her, that talking point tends to be erroneous.

I, too, grew to understand the limits of "preferred" educational paths for the teaching profession (and the administrative qualifications for those ambitions later), though in many respects now I have a higher level of education than many of them do. The sins of credentialism need to be guarded against.

Nevertheless, education and exposure matters a great deal, sometimes in some educational areas more than others. If not for subject matter competency, then you have to really keep in mind needing someone who can faithfully execute legal requirements of the post, thereby avoiding legal problems stemming from the administration of educational and supervisional programming.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

:shrug: where appropriate, sure. Generally, I am less concerned with credentials than I am with capability. We should pay a larger salary for the position, and then offer wider latitude in hiring so that administrators and HR can pick from a wider variety of higher-quality candidates to find the best fits.

The Education Masters' takes the students with the lowest GRE scores, who had the lowest SAT/ACT scores, who proceed to get the best GPA's (indicating easy course work). Generally speaking, it's not a terribly impressive credential.



I imagine it would depend on the shop teacher.

My wife's uncle, for example, was (barely) a high school graduate....

...who then invented a couple of different techniques to save materials while using CAD technology to shape construction materials, and built a multi-million dollar company based on his ability to outperform and underbid his competitors. The man has a full industrial carving shop in his basement, which he mostly uses for fun.

I imagine he is probably competent to the task of teaching kids how to hammer nails.

It is my personal philosophy that teachers should be a master in their trade and while a few operate outside the norm, many more need training. I would expect that same philosophy for my dentist, doctor, lawyer and pharmacist.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Often times I wouldn't credit state legislators and executive branches that much cunning. Frequently, sometimes exacerbated by the design of the state constitution, , it is sheer short-sightedness and lack of priority that creates these situations.

I think it is a money saving issue. Just my opinion.

 

[Fiddytree]

It is my personal philosophy that teachers should be a master in their trade and while a few operate outside the norm, many more need training. I would expect that same philosophy for my dentist, doctor, lawyer and pharmacist.

I'm a bit hesitant to call most teachers "master in their trade." They could certainly be masters in pedagogy, but probably not in the content itself. I'd be inclined to stick with "proficient."

 

[Fiddytree]

I think it is a money saving issue. Just my opinion.

Perhaps I was too subtle. When I meant "priority" I meant in terms of adequately funding X educational program or programs. A lot of state legislators or Governors wouldn't have a grand scheme of trying to starve out the education system so as to proliferate the private sector. Most are simply too short-sighted for that, and demonstrate that when you have to remind them, "that requires training" or whatever else they legislate programs requiring moneys.