White Supremacist Groups see Trump Bump

[MrT]

US Muslims vote Democratic not out of any sympathy to its social values agenda, but only because that party is a coalition of special interest groups, including ethnic special interest groups, which make that party more amenable to pandering to ethnic lobbies, including Muslims. Thus the fundamental contradictions of the Democratic Party, which pretends to be all things to all people. Pretends to love gays, but wants to pump in as many new homophobes into the country as possible (What could go wrong?) The Democrats have never met a special interest they didn't like - they're more than happy to shake hands with a fireman in the morning and then pal around with an arsonist at night - running with the hares and hunting with the hounds.
That pretense at being all things to all people is what makes Democrats the worst opportunists, so that their moral pretensions are nothing but a veneer.

Muslims have a religious word that justifies this: taqqiya

The basic fact is that you're discussing an attribute that is true of all political groups which depend upon plurality support - including conservatives. You may have a specific definition of the attributes you wish to see in your conservative political leader, but your "conservative" political leader still requires a plurality of voters to support him/her in order to win and thus, he or she will do everything in their power to make you believe that he or she agrees with you, but also your "conservative" neighbor.

Your assertion is that Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists are 2 sides of the same coin. I'm an atheist, but even I recognize that Western-based fundamentalists are simply nowhere near being in the same category as 3rd world fundamentalists. If you like 3rd-world fundamentalists so much, then why not move to the 3rd world, where you can be upto your eyeballs in them? There is no shortage of Muslim countries to choose from.

Seriously? You're playing the, "well you can just leave," card? That's really pathetic.

 

[starcitizen]

So now that we've reached an agreement on that point, can we move on?

Perhaps we could move to a discussion on how fear of Islam and its followers and, in particular a policy driven by fear of Islam, would ultimately yield more suffering for many of the same individuals that Daesh recruits - specifically because they have suffered and have little alternative.

I'm not afraid of Islam I am fundamentally opposed to the tenants of the Islamic ideology.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

By your logic being anti-Nazi is also bigotry.

Wow... If this is what you think then you are in no way using my "logic".

Islam is an ideology and as such open to criticism,

I never said it was not open to criticism...

and I am adamantly opposed to any ideology which promotes theocracy, violence, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and misogyny, and if that makes me a bigot then so be it.

So go with Trumps "plan" and not allow Muslims into the USA? Also not even close to all Muslims believe in the values you just laid out.

 

[ocean515]

Very well then. Tell me, who among society does the BLM movement seek to oppress or intimidate?

The answer is obvious. If you chose to avoid the numerous videos of their actions, then you are willfully choosing to remain uninformed on the subject.

 

[ocean515]

No, it doesn't. The Black Panthers, I would say, do (or did). You couldn't be more wrong.

Of course it does. Videos of their protests and actions are quite available. Prove to me BLM doesn't exist to intimidate and threaten.

 

[MrT]

Prove to me BLM doesn't exist to intimidate and threaten.

An impossible request given your biases and the vague, amorphous nature of the request and movement.

 

[JasperL]

The majority of Muslims vote Democrat because 63% of them are first generation immigrants and they know where their bread is buttered.

Well, you're just making crap up, but the point is they find a home with gay friendly, non-theocratic, Jewish politicians and fellow party members here in America. So to say they are incompatible with western values is contradicted by that simple fact.

One problem with your promotion of a fascist ideology while asserting that others are bigots is that upwards of 90% of the worlds Muslim population are anti-Semitic, theocratic and homophobic, why do you support theocracy, homophobia, and anti-Semitism?

I'm not asserting you're a bigot - you are one. You repeatedly say you don't want "Muslims" - any of them - here and why - it meets the dictionary definition of the term. If you want to justify it, that's fine, but you're not doing a very good job of it. We're all bigoted against some groups of people for good and bad reasons.

BTW, no big deal since I don't really care, but I'm wondering how you're characterizing my comments as promoting a "fascist" ideology? Because I don't condemn all 1.5 billion Muslims, I'm promoting the fascist ideology of some Muslims? If I don't condemn all billion or so Christians, does it also mean I'm promoting the fascist ideology of some Christians?

 

[ocean515]

"Creating" a racial divide? The racial divide never went away, nor did it vanish into the ether once we elected a black guy president.

BLM is the result of decades upon decades of police mistreating minorities that finally came to a head.

BLM was invented. It is a funded creation of Socialist Progressive benefactors. This is an absolute documented fact to which I have already provided direct links.

The racial divided is a convenience to Socialist Progressives, so creating groups like BLM works to their advantage. What better way to keep discussion about the economic harm illegal aliens are causing in Black communities to a minimum?

 

[ocean515]

Just one time I'd like to see you guys show some numbers of "Illegal Alien" that have come here under Obama versus the last republican to hold that office. I'll give you a hint, if the black community has been devastated by "Illegal Aliens" it's from the 12 million admitted before Obama and not the roughly net zero in the past few years. Look at deportation data and it's the same damn story. More under Obama than any POTUS in recent history.

It's like you guys hear these talking points, and it's irrelevant that they're completely contradicted by ALL the known facts and evidence. It's amazing to watch really.

Just once I'd like to see some facts posted rather than confirmation of BDS.

 

[ocean515]

Give it a ****ing break. At worst BLM has some annoying actors in it. Not goddamn murders who've implanted themselves in police and political positions that are then used to oppress others and thwart justice for their murderous klan members' actions. Your comparison is beyond desperation. There is no comparison.

No, I don't think I will give it a break. I think when millions are injected by Socialist Progressives into the creation of a group designed to bring about racial discord and disharmony, and is designed to intimidate and threaten, the truth must be presented.

Too bad if you can't handle the truth.

 

[JasperL]

US Muslims vote Democratic not out of any sympathy to its social values agenda, but only because that party is a coalition of special interest groups, including ethnic special interest groups, which make that party more amenable to pandering to ethnic lobbies, including Muslims. Thus the fundamental contradictions of the Democratic Party, which pretends to be all things to all people. Pretends to love gays, but wants to pump in as many new homophobes into the country as possible (What could go wrong?) The Democrats have never met a special interest they didn't like - they're more than happy to shake hands with a fireman in the morning and then pal around with an arsonist at night - running with the hares and hunting with the hounds.

More fact free nonsense pulled out of someone's back side. It's very hard to make the argument that "Muslims" as a homogeneous group are incompatible with western values when the vast, vast majority of them come here and peacefully adapt to a culture that in fact openly rejects many of their "values" including their religion, and many of them reside in a party of Jews, homosexuals and opponents of a theocracy. That they might not share those views is more, not less, evidence that they are compatible with western values of peacefully coexisting with those who don't share some of their values.

Your assertion is that Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists are 2 sides of the same coin. I'm an atheist, but even I recognize that Western-based fundamentalists are simply nowhere near being in the same category as 3rd world fundamentalists.

If your point is fundamentalism is the problem and it's not specific to religions, I agree. By that standard, apparently, we should shut our borders to all but the prosperous first world nations. If that's the point, make it. If not, then I'm missing something.

If you like 3rd-world fundamentalists so much, then why not move to the 3rd world, where you can be upto your eyeballs in them? There is no shortage of Muslim countries to choose from

Usually this lame talking point works the other way - "If you don't like it here in America, LEAVE!!" It's just as weak the other way. The bottom line is I love my country, the U.S. So, no, I think I'll stay here, thanks for the suggestion though....

 

[JasperL]

Just once I'd like to see some facts posted rather than confirmation of BDS.

Okee dokee. I'd think someone repeating the talking point might have looked up some facts to confirm it, but I guess not. At any rate, here you go:

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center



President Obama Is Still the Deporter-In-Chief | Cato @ Liberty

 

[starcitizen]

Wow... If this is what you think then you are in no way using my "logic".

Islam is an ideology which promotes anti-Semitism, theocracy, misogyny homophobia, violence, and totalitarianism, so if being opposed to Islam and its adherents/promoters makes one a bigot then by your logic being opposed to the ideology of national socialism and it's adherents/promoters likewise makes one a bigot that is if your arguments were consistent which of course they are not.

I never said it was not open to criticism...

But of course criticism of Islam makes one a bigot.

So go with Trumps "plan" and not allow Muslims into the USA?

Yes they should not be allowed to immigrate here as their ideology is incompatible with the Constitution.

Also not even close to all Muslims believe in the values you just laid out.

Actually polling data shows that upwards of 90% of Muslims are anti-Semitic, homophobic, and theocratic.

 

[ocean515]

An impossible request given your biases and the vague, amorphous nature of the request and movement.

If it's an impossible request, how can it be claimed BLM doesn't exist to intimidate and threaten?

They stormed through a college library, they have attempted to violate peoples Constitutional Rights, they have disrupted peaceful assemblies, and they have rioted and committed acts of vandalism. This has all been documented, as has the financial nexus of their creation.

I think it is despicable there are Police Officers who would murder innocent people, Black, White, Green, or Yellow. They should be ferreted out, and their protectors brought to justice as well.

However, none of that changes anything about BLM. It is what it is showing itself to be.

 

[starcitizen]

Well, you're just making crap up,

I'm not actually:

America and Muslims: By the Numbers | FRONTLINE

but the point is they find a home with gay friendly, non-theocratic, Jewish politicians and fellow party members here in America. So to say they are incompatible with western values is contradicted by that simple fact.

They vote democrat because they want more government services not because they support liberal values.

I'm not asserting you're a bigot - you are one. You repeatedly say you don't want "Muslims" - any of them - here and why - it meets the dictionary definition of the term.

No not wanting people whose ideology is incompatible with the Constitution to immigrate here does not meet the dictionary definition of a bigot.

If you want to justify it, that's fine, but you're not doing a very good job of it. We're all bigoted against some groups of people for good and bad reasons.

BTW, no big deal since I don't really care, but I'm wondering how you're characterizing my comments as promoting a "fascist" ideology?

Islam is an ideology which holds many fascist tenants, and you promote their immigration to the US.

Because I don't condemn all 1.5 billion Muslims, I'm promoting the fascist ideology of some Muslims? If I don't condemn all billion or so Christians, does it also mean I'm promoting the fascist ideology of some Christians?

Yes because you won't condemn an ideology whose tenants includes anti-Semitism, theocracy, misogyny, homophobia, and totalitarianism makes you a promoter a fascist ideology.

 

[starcitizen]

More fact free nonsense pulled out of someone's back side. It's very hard to make the argument that "Muslims" as a homogeneous group are incompatible with western values when the vast, vast majority of them come here and peacefully adapt to a culture that in fact openly rejects many of their "values" including their religion, and many of them reside in a party of Jews, homosexuals and opponents of a theocracy. That they might not share those views is more, not less, evidence that they are compatible with western values of peacefully coexisting with those who don't share some of their values.

Ah yes because voting for the increase of the Jizya means they are compatible with western values.

 

[ocean515]

Okee dokee. I'd think someone repeating the talking point might have looked up some facts to confirm it, but I guess not. At any rate, here you go:

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

View attachment 67194103

President Obama Is Still the Deporter-In-Chief | Cato @ Liberty

View attachment 67194104

:lamo

You need to step up your game. It's already well known Pew's numbers are way off, and Obama's deportation BS has been explained a thousand times over on these pages.

A more accurate estimate of the number of illegal aliens living in the US is @16-20 million. The link to the methodology used to determine this number is shown below

If you disagree with any of the methodology presented, please explain why.

How many illegal aliens reside in the United States? A methodology using Border Patrol "got away" statistics | CAIRCO - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform | immigration reference news projects

 

[celticwar17]

White Supremacist Groups see Trump Bump



When it comes to discriminatory laws, there is a difference between discriminatory intent and discriminatory effect. I see a similar trend going with Trump. I do not necessarily believe that Trump or his policies are racist in their intent; however, it is quite clear that they are racist in the effect. Furthermore, it is quite clear that, irregardless of Trump's alleged stance with regards to racism, there are racist groups which explicitly benefiting and using Trump to further their political aims.

Continued support for trump will only further encourage these types of movements.

This is the same things as saying," the Communist overwhelmingly are supporting Bernie Sanders... therefore he is stirring up the communist base...COMMUNISM!!!!!!"

 

[JasperL]

I'm not actually:

America and Muslims: By the Numbers | FRONTLINE

I skimmed it - the article seems to confirm exactly my point. The vast majority of Muslims here in America adjust fine to our values. But I'm not going to try to guess your point - if you want to make one, quote the part of the article you think is relevant.

They vote democrat because they want more government services not because they support liberal values.

And we know this because you say so I guess.... :roll:

No not wanting people whose ideology is incompatible with the Constitution to immigrate here does not meet the dictionary definition of a bigot.

Right, you're not intolerant of "Muslims" as a group comprising 1.5 billion diverse individuals of nearly all walks of life, residing in nearly every country on the planet, you just don't want ANY Muslims here in America, and that it not bigoted, you just don't want any of them coming HERE! Got it.

Islam is an ideology which holds many fascist tenants, and you promote their immigration to the US.

All religions, or at least most, including evangelical Christianity, hold many fascist "tenants." And I'm not actually "promoting" their immigration to the U.S. What I object to is a blanket ban on "Muslims" and only Muslims from immigrating and under Trump's proposal even being allowed to TRAVEL to the U.S.

Yes because you won't condemn an ideology whose tenants includes anti-Semitism, theocracy, misogyny, homophobia, and totalitarianism makes you a promoter a fascist ideology.

This is a waste of time. You're lumping in 1.5 billion people with negative stereotypes and I have better things to do than argue with that kind of childish nonsense. It's possible to have a rational debate about Islam, and part of that would require that we recognize that there is a radical strain of Islam that is indeed dangerous and incompatible with our values. But pretending that his 1.5 billion population is some homogeneous group who all share these values is just childish ignorance.

 

[MrT]

This is the same things as saying," the Communist overwhelmingly are supporting Bernie Sanders... therefore he is stirring up the communist base...COMMUNISM!!!!!!"

Only if the communists or a communist group came out and said that Bernie was the reason that the communist groups are seeing more support/enrollment.

And your analogy appears to assume that communists are comparable to white supremacists.

 

[poweRob]

No, I don't think I will give it a break.

No, of course you won't. Actual thinking would upset your race-baiting narrative too much.

Sorry you can't handle the truth.

 

[poweRob]

Okee dokee. I'd think someone repeating the talking point might have looked up some facts to confirm it, but I guess not. At any rate, here you go:

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

View attachment 67194103

President Obama Is Still the Deporter-In-Chief | Cato @ Liberty

View attachment 67194104

And boom goes the dynamite. This has to smart a bit.

 

[JasperL]

:lamo

You need to step up your game. It's already well known Pew's numbers are way off, and Obama's deportation BS has been explained a thousand times over on these pages.

A more accurate estimate of the number of illegal aliens living in the US is @16-20 million. The link to the methodology used to determine this number is shown below

If you disagree with any of the methodology presented, please explain why.

How many illegal aliens reside in the United States? A methodology using Border Patrol "got away" statistics | CAIRCO - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform | immigration reference news projects

First of all, it might be true that Pew's method doesn't count all the 'illegals' but as long as they've been using consistent methods to estimate the illegal population, it doesn't really matter for this purpose. What their method shows is the illegal immigration numbers have fallen WAY off since roughly 2007 and the start of the Great Recession.

Second, that study is pretty pathetic all the way around. This is a telling quote:

Under the Obama administration, the Border Patrol has been essentially incapicated, Obama's DACA amnesty has been issued, the child illegal alien invasion has occurred, and deportation numbers have been fudged. It would be reasonable to project that if 20 million illegal aliens were present in 2005, 38 to 40 million illegal aliens could certainly reside in the United States in 2014.

Indeed, 38 million to 40 million illegal aliens were estimated to reside in the United States in 2007 - see Illegal Aliens: Counting the Uncountable by James H. Walsh, The Social Contract, Summer, 2007.

First of all the language is pretty telling. I particularly liked "child illegal alien invasion." It's obviously the language used by objective researchers..... :shock: :lamo

Second, which is it? Were 40 million illegals in the U.S. in 2007 or by 2014. Both can't be true, but I guess the idea is readers pick a number, any number, and go with it.

Third, the whole thing and your conclusions are predicated on the fact that immigration trends once established do not change. Well, anyone who contends the Great Recession didn't affect immigration numbers is either stupid or a hack. Take your pick.

Finally, I looked and saw no estimates at all, anywhere, of the population of illegals now versus in 2008. It said it did a comprehensive study in 2004 and updated it in 2007, but nothing since. If you see the figures for 2014 or 2015 in that study let me know, but the point is every single estimate I've seen and there are several indicate that the net growth since the Great Recession in illegal immigrants has fallen off dramatically versus the previous 20 years or so, and has been roughly zero by most estimates.

But as I said, I'm willing to listen. Please, look at your link and tell me what the population was at the end of 2008 and what it is today, so we can have some estimate about how much worse it's gotten under Obama.

I've also read the critiques of the Obama deportation numbers. Here's one: https://newrepublic.com/article/117412/deportations-under-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

Among other things the article notes that the number of deportations currently backlogged is nearly 400,000, so we're deporting illegals as fast as we can process them through the system, with a 400,000 person backlog. How that means Obama is being lenient is a mystery to me.

 

[celticwar17]

Only if the communists or a communist group came out and said that Bernie was the reason that the communist groups are seeing more support/enrollment.

And your analogy appears to assume that communists are comparable to white supremacists.

Lol... yes they have, they do every year, even about the democrats... but no one cares, because it's not race baiting...

And yes, communists are worse than white supremacists.... they are much more destructive and are the reason and responsible for the most human death than any other ideology by far...

 

[ocean515]

No, of course you won't. Actual thinking would upset your race-baiting narrative too much.

Sorry you can't handle the truth.

Calling me names, or labeling facts as race-baiting doesn't change anything. BLM is an invention, which is documented from the source of funds that created it. There actions have been videoed and are available to anyone who choses to view the truth.