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Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum[w47

Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Redress said:
I am sure you can document this wild assed claim.
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Its been pretty much on every news network...........Hussein Obama will say or do anything to get reelected and if that includes compromising his principles that is fine.......
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

digsbe said:
I had deleted that post, but whatever. I just find it funny that you always call him "Hussein" as if it's a bad thing. It's also classless and rude to make fun of another person's physical features that they cannot control like "elephant ears"
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Why did you delete it and as long as people like you insinuate that in some manner I am attracted to Hussein Obama you better get use to it my left wing friend....a couple of your lefty friends have already given up but not you....I ts kind of odd but I thought you kind of leaned right on your political beliefs...........My bad........sorry
 
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Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
The only reason Hussein Obama went to being for gay marriage is that Gays were threatening to withhold funding for his election campaign...
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Personally I always thought that Obama didn't care about SSM. It was obvious to me anyways when he said that he would no longer defend DOMA.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

clownboy said:
Nah, it's like Oregon. The cities are mainly liberal, but once you get out to the countryside, mostly conservative. And the liberals here are a funny bunch. They'll goto protests and the like, then vote 180 degrees when they mail in their vote.
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I've lived in Washington and go back there once a year. Not all the countryside is as conservative as you may believe. I've talked to many working in the SY who don't have any problem with same sex marriage being legal. Pretty conservative bunch otherwise and wouldn't have too much of an issue giving crap to gays but still don't find same sex marriage a problem or a threat, for the most part.

Plus, domestic partnerships for same sex couples passed with little problem in the state a few years back. And while that's great that they get some rights (even if it exactly like marriage, it still wouldn't be recognized by the federal government), it isn't enough and making sure that this is the major message that the anti-ban people are putting out would go a long way to keeping this ban from passing. The domestic partnership thing is a little bit of a curse for them though and one reason I don't support "marriage by another name for same sex couples" because it will prove to be a problem when it comes to getting legal same sex marriage passed because many might not understand that those other things are not legal marriages and will not be entitled to all the same protections and legal rights and benefits of true marriage.

clownboy said:
I don't think so. I think they're going to issue a decision that makes it a state and congressional issue. Even with fully democrat congresses gay marriage doesn't pass, doesn't even come close.
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Eventually they will have to decide that limiting marriage to only opposite sex couples is unconstitutional. Because it is.

And same sex marriage support has been growing steadily over the last decade and just reached majority support a year ago. The only chance they had to push it through was '09-'11. And for whatever reason they didn't. Politicians are not good people, for the most part. If they were, the Dems would have pushed a bill to repeal DOMA during that time. I don't know why they didn't, probably to keep it as a wedge issue and shame on them if that was the case. Or maybe they couldn't get it past a Rep filibuster?

I'm not a Democrat or Republican. Both parties suck and use political issues to divide us, especially ones that could easily be taken care of, like this one, to never be an issue again.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Kal'Stang said:
Personally I always thought that Obama didn't care about SSM. It was obvious to me anyways when he said that he would no longer defend DOMA.
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In 1996 he was for SSM..........He will be anything you want him to be to get elected.....
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

roguenuke said:
I've lived in Washington and go back there once a year. Not all the countryside is as conservative as you may believe. I've talked to many working in the SY who don't have any problem with same sex marriage being legal. Pretty conservative bunch otherwise and wouldn't have too much of an issue giving crap to gays but still don't find same sex marriage a problem or a threat, for the most part.

Plus, domestic partnerships for same sex couples passed with little problem in the state a few years back. And while that's great that they get some rights (even if it exactly like marriage, it still wouldn't be recognized by the federal government), it isn't enough and making sure that this is the major message that the anti-ban people are putting out would go a long way to keeping this ban from passing. The domestic partnership thing is a little bit of a curse for them though and one reason I don't support "marriage by another name for same sex couples" because it will prove to be a problem when it comes to getting legal same sex marriage passed because many might not understand that those other things are not legal marriages and will not be entitled to all the same protections and legal rights and benefits of true marriage.



Eventually they will have to decide that limiting marriage to only opposite sex couples is unconstitutional. Because it is.

And same sex marriage support has been growing steadily over the last decade and just reached majority support a year ago. The only chance they had to push it through was '09-'11. And for whatever reason they didn't. Politicians are not good people, for the most part. If they were, the Dems would have pushed a bill to repeal DOMA during that time. I don't know why they didn't, probably to keep it as a wedge issue and shame on them if that was the case. Or maybe they couldn't get it past a Rep filibuster?

I'm not a Democrat or Republican. Both parties suck and use political issues to divide us, especially ones that could easily be taken care of, like this one, to never be an issue again.
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You are wrong..........when ever they start counting votes in and election they start in Eastern Washington and by the time they get over to the Seattle Tacoma corrider the Republican always has a big lead but that goes away here because they count dead and felons as democrats...........Oh by the way I have lived here almost 36 years so I know a little about it.....

I might add and it probably will never happen but there are calls from the East side to become their own state its so bad.............

why do you think incompetents like Maria Cantrell and Patty Murray keep getting elected......
 
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Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
In 1996 he was for SSM..........He will be anything you want him to be to get elected.....
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Can you name any current politician that isn't like that?
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
You are wrong..........when ever they start counting votes in and election they start in Eastern Washington and by the time they get over to the Seattle Tacoma corrider the Republican always has a big lead but that goes away here because they count dead and felons as democrats...........Oh by the way I have lived here almost 36 years so I know a little about it.....

I might add and it probably will never happen but there are calls from the East side to become their own state its so bad.............

why do you think incompetents like Maria Cantrell and Patty Murray keep getting elected......
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Times are changing NP, particularly when it comes to this issue. It isn't necessary to be a Democrat or even a very liberal person to support same sex marriage being legal. That becomes more and more true every day.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Kal'Stang said:
Can you name any current politician that isn't like that?
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Well lets just say I don't see Republicans changing their stance on SSM.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

roguenuke said:
Times are changing NP, particularly when it comes to this issue. It isn't necessary to be a Democrat or even a very liberal person to support same sex marriage being legal. That becomes more and more true every day.
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I know many Conservatives and know none that are for SSM........That is your side of the aisle..............You will see 3 or more states in November ratifying marriage as a union between a man and a woman..........You keep say you winning and you just deny reality.........We needed 125,000 sigs here in Washington to get it on the ballot and we got 200,000 over a month early.........
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
I know many Conservatives and know none that are for SSM........That is your side of the aisle..............You will see 3 or more states in November ratifying marriage as a union between a man and a woman..........You keep say you winning and you just deny reality.........We needed 125,000 sigs here in Washington to get it on the ballot and we got 200,000 over a month early.........
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Mainly older people have majority numbers against same sex marriage being legal. And, unfortunately old people vote in higher percentages than young people. After all, many old people don't have an actual full time job and/or a family that needs them to take care of them like younger people, so they have a better opportunity to be able to vote.

Reality is that voters, due to being more made up of older people, support the bans. The majority of the population supports same sex marriage being legal. And it won't be long til that is reflected in the votes if the SCOTUS does not overturn the state marriage bans first.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

roguenuke said:
Mainly older people have majority numbers against same sex marriage being legal. And, unfortunately old people vote in higher percentages than young people. After all, many old people don't have an actual full time job and/or a family that needs them to take care of them like younger people, so they have a better opportunity to be able to vote.

Reality is that voters, due to being more made up of older people, support the bans. The majority of the population supports same sex marriage being legal. And it won't be long til that is reflected in the votes if the SCOTUS does not overturn the state marriage bans first.
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Nice try but the problem with your scenario is most young people don't vote here in Washington...........Then they grow older and wiser get married and have a family theirselves and become much more Conservative...........You might be surprised to hear that actually happened to me.........
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
Nice try but the problem with your scenario is most young people don't vote here in Washington...........Then they grow older and wiser get married and have a family theirselves and become much more Conservative...........You might be surprised to hear that actually happened to me.........
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Navy Pride, do you not understand that this issue is brand new to most people? The people didn't grow old and decide to become against same sex marriage. Those who are against it have always been against it. People don't just get a family and decide that same sex couples don't deserve the right to marry after believing at one time they did. They never believed they deserved that right.

The younger generations now are not going to be against same sex marriage later in life in nearly the same numbers as those older generations now are. It doesn't work that way. Look at those against interracial marriages (and if you say one word about it not being the same thing, I will know that you aren't even willing to pay attention to the argument being presented). The number of those against it were huge 50 years ago. Now, the number is very small. There are still some, even younger people, that are against interracial marriage, in both races. But a very big percentage comes from those who are older because they are more likely to be taught that bias against something and hold onto their beliefs than the younger generations.

It is very, very rare for someone to be for something like marriage equality, whether dealing with race or sex and change their mind on it. It just doesn't happen in nearly the amounts you are suggesting.

And if you believe it does, then tell me, when were you for same sex marriage being legal? Who do you know who was ever for same sex marriage being completely legal and who is now against it? If anyone, why did they change their minds? What was their reasoning for it being legal first?
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

roguenuke said:
Navy Pride, do you not understand that this issue is brand new to most people? The people didn't grow old and decide to become against same sex marriage. Those who are against it have always been against it. People don't just get a family and decide that same sex couples don't deserve the right to marry after believing at one time they did. They never believed they deserved that right.

The younger generations now are not going to be against same sex marriage later in life in nearly the same numbers as those older generations now are. It doesn't work that way. Look at those against interracial marriages (and if you say one word about it not being the same thing, I will know that you aren't even willing to pay attention to the argument being presented). The number of those against it were huge 50 years ago. Now, the number is very small. There are still some, even younger people, that are against interracial marriage, in both races. But a very big percentage comes from those who are older because they are more likely to be taught that bias against something and hold onto their beliefs than the younger generations.

It is very, very rare for someone to be for something like marriage equality, whether dealing with race or sex and change their mind on it. It just doesn't happen in nearly the amounts you are suggesting.

And if you believe it does, then tell me, when were you for same sex marriage being legal? Who do you know who was ever for same sex marriage being completely legal and who is now against it? If anyone, why did they change their minds? What was their reasoning for it being legal first?
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Your just wrong, we have exit polls here in Washington and they show young people for the most part do not bother to vote and if they Go to a major univerversity the vote absentee in their home state........I will guess that the referendum will pass about 54% to 46% a comfortable margin......I am telling you th only chance you have and its a very slim one at that is the SCOTUS shoots down the California referendum and that ain't going to happen........Like I say 5-4 to uphold traditional marriage....
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
Your just wrong, we have exit polls here in Washington and they show young people for the most part do not bother to vote and if they Go to a major univerversity the vote absentee in their home state........I will guess that the referendum will pass about 54% to 46% a comfortable margin......I am telling you th only chance you have and its a very slim one at that is the SCOTUS shoots down the California referendum and that ain't going to happen........Like I say 5-4 to uphold traditional marriage....
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Did you not read what I posted? Older people vote more than younger people. If this had been up for a vote 10 or 20 years ago, there would have been absolutely zero chance of it failing. Now, you have a pretty good chance that this ban could fail. Whether you want to recognize it or not and it because older people vote more than younger people. But if it is 10 years from now, it is highly likely that there would be little chance that it could pass because one older generation would have died off and a younger, more accepting generation would have moved up to having higher voter turnout. They wouldn't have lost that acceptance of legal same sex marriage just because they got older. It just isn't reasonable to believe they would.

BTW, you failed to seriously address anything I asked you or that pertained to the actual thing you tried to claim, which was as people got older they lost their belief that same sex marriage was a right.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
Your just wrong, we have exit polls here in Washington and they show young people for the most part do not bother to vote and if they Go to a major univerversity the vote absentee in their home state........I will guess that the referendum will pass about 54% to 46% a comfortable margin......I am telling you th only chance you have and its a very slim one at that is the SCOTUS shoots down the California referendum and that ain't going to happen........Like I say 5-4 to uphold traditional marriage....
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Lets just say for the sake of arguement that you are correct. Washington will succeed in banning SSM via a state constitutional amendment. And lets say for just a moment that SCOTUS does uphold your definition of marriage.

How long do you think it will last? What was put into the Constitution...be it state or federal...can be taken out. There will come a time when SSM will be allowed. There is nothing that neither you, nor I (if I even wanted to...which I don't), could do to stop it.

As far as SCOTUS goes, I would suggest not banking on them to rule in your favor. Prop 8 was shot down by two different courts and the 9th circuit court of appeals has declined to hear it. Also DOMA has been struck down by the 1st circuit court. Combine Loving v Virginia and Zablocki v Redhail to the mix and its not looking good for your side. Both DOMA and Prop 8 are expected to be heard by SCOTUS sometime this year.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
Well lets just say I don't see Republicans changing their stance on SSM.
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Seven Republicans who stood up for gay marriage in Washington

"In the past two weeks, four state lawmakers and three Metropolitan King County Council members, all Republicans, have done something that would have seemed impossible in Washington a few years ago.

The politicians — state Sens. Steve Litzow and Cheryl Pflug and Reps. Glenn Anderson and Maureen Walsh — agreed to take a historic vote to legalize same-sex marriage, a bold move by any gauge.

And three County Council members — Reagan Dunn, Pete von Reichbauer and Jane Hague — backed a resolution telling the Legislature: Go ahead, the county wants lawmakers to approve gay marriage"

Opinion | Seven Republicans who stood up for gay marriage in Washington | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
why do you think incompetents like Maria Cantrell and Patty Murray keep getting elected......
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It's Maria CantWELL. And Patty Murray has done wonderful things for vets. Dont be so quick to throw her under the bus.

"Mar 27 2012
Nine state housing authorities will receive 325 vouchers under joint HUD-VA program that Senator Murray funded
(Washington, D.C.) – Today, U.S. Senator Patty Murray, Chairman of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee and the Senate Housing Appropriations Subcommittee, announced that 325 housing vouchers will be allocated to nine different state Housing Authorities in order to help get Washington state homeless veterans into housing. The vouchers are part of the HUD’s Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing Program (HUD-VASH program). Senator Murray provided $75 million nationwide to fund new vouchers in the Senate spending bill last year. She also worked to secure $201 million for the VA to provide case management and services for veterans in the program."

News Releases - Newsroom - HOMELESS VETERANS: Senator Murray Announces Funding to Help House Veterans Across Washington State - United States Senator Patty Murray
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

roguenuke said:
You could not be more wrong on this issue NP.

In GOP, support for same-sex marriage is growing - CNN.com
The GOP's gay trajectory | StarTribune.com
Maryland Republican Wade Kach Switches Vote for Gay Marriage

You are on the wrong side of history NP. It's just a matter of time.
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But I am not and by the way I was just watchin channel 5 and the ballots for the referendum were turned in and it wasn't 120,000 sigs it was almost a quarter of a million sigs.........If no one lese votes on it they have enough votes already........You lose my left wing friend.......sorry......
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Flippinfunky said:
Seven Republicans who stood up for gay marriage in Washington

"In the past two weeks, four state lawmakers and three Metropolitan King County Council members, all Republicans, have done something that would have seemed impossible in Washington a few years ago.

The politicians — state Sens. Steve Litzow and Cheryl Pflug and Reps. Glenn Anderson and Maureen Walsh — agreed to take a historic vote to legalize same-sex marriage, a bold move by any gauge.

And three County Council members — Reagan Dunn, Pete von Reichbauer and Jane Hague — backed a resolution telling the Legislature: Go ahead, the county wants lawmakers to approve gay marriage"

Opinion | Seven Republicans who stood up for gay marriage in Washington | Seattle Times Newspaper
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I live here my left wing friend......you ever hear of the term RINO?
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Flippinfunky said:
It's Maria CantWELL. And Patty Murray has done wonderful things for vets. Dont be so quick to throw her under the bus.

"Mar 27 2012
Nine state housing authorities will receive 325 vouchers under joint HUD-VA program that Senator Murray funded
(Washington, D.C.) – Today, U.S. Senator Patty Murray, Chairman of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee and the Senate Housing Appropriations Subcommittee, announced that 325 housing vouchers will be allocated to nine different state Housing Authorities in order to help get Washington state homeless veterans into housing. The vouchers are part of the HUD’s Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing Program (HUD-VASH program). Senator Murray provided $75 million nationwide to fund new vouchers in the Senate spending bill last year. She also worked to secure $201 million for the VA to provide case management and services for veterans in the program."

News Releases - Newsroom - HOMELESS VETERANS: Senator Murray Announces Funding to Help House Veterans Across Washington State - United States Senator Patty Murray
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Most of those guys are even vets my left wing friend and if your not a democrat Murray or Cantwell won't even respond to a letter............Oh and Murray was voted the dumbest senator in the senate...
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
I live here my left wing friend......you ever hear of the term RINO?
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If standing up for a fellow citizens rights earns someone the title RINO.

Personally I would wear it as a badge of honour.
 
Re: Washington Gay Marriage Law Blocked As Opponents Submit Signatures For Referendum

Navy Pride said:
But I am not and by the way I was just watchin channel 5 and the ballots for the referendum were turned in and it wasn't 120,000 sigs it was almost a quarter of a million sigs.........If no one lese votes on it they have enough votes already........You lose my left wing friend.......sorry......
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There are 3.6M registered voters in WA. All votes can be done by mail. 250,000 signatures is a drop in the bucket, even if those who send in their votes are around half those registered. I don't know where you think you got enough numbers with only a quarter of a million, but it isn't in WA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/opinion/how-to-expand-the-voter-rolls.html

Washingtonians can register online to vote.

You are truly dreaming if you think you have enough sigs for this to pass with just those turned in for the referendum or that this is over, and those against it lose.
 
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