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Trial starts for Arizona border rancher charged with killing migrant on his property

Integrityrespec said:
Were they in the country illegally? Were they tresspassing? Are there not plenty of accounts of illegals breaking into homes, and accounts of violence?
www.heritage.org

Increased Illegal Immigration Brings Increased Crime: Almost 2/3 of Federal Arrests Involve Noncitizens

Customs and Border Protection encountered over 275,000 illegal aliens crossing our borders nationwide in April alone, setting a distressing precedent for increased illegal entries under the Biden administration.
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org
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Whether they were in the country illegally or trespassing doesn't mitigate shooting at someone from 100 yards away.

Self defense requires an imminent threat of death or grievous injury as perceived by a reasonable person. This doesn't look like any kind of self defense.
 
Uriah said:
Biden invited Illegals to surge the border, not me. Why aren't you upset with Biden? He's the guy who initiated this crap.
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Whether Biden invited illegals to surge the border might make an interesting separate thread.

It has just about nothing to do with this incident, according to the reports I've seen. Even assuming it's true that Biden made such an invitation, it doesn't justify picking off people at 100 yards.
 
vanceen said:
Whether Biden invited illegals to surge the border might make an interesting separate thread.

It has just about nothing to do with this incident, according to the reports I've seen. Even assuming it's true that Biden made such an invitation, it doesn't justify picking off people at 100 yards.
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The guy is obviously fed up with his government not doing their job and even encouraging lawbreakers like Biden did. Understandable. I'm not condoning it, but it's understandable, and I hope a jury lets him off.
 
Uriah said:
The guy is obviously fed up with his government not doing their job and even encouraging lawbreakers like Biden did. Understandable. I'm not condoning it, but it's understandable, and I hope a jury lets him off.
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I can't read the guy's mind. I don't think you can either.

More to the point, even assuming you are right and he is "fed up", that isn't an adequate excuse for killing people who are offering no imminent threat.
 
vanceen said:
I can't read the guy's mind. I don't think you can either.

More to the point, even assuming you are right and he is "fed up", that isn't an adequate excuse for killing people who are offering no imminent threat.
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Do you allow people to go through your property?
 
Uriah said:
Do you allow people to go through your property?
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Are you kidding?

Generally, no. I have fences and people know that my property isn't for wandering through. If someone persisted in trespassing I would ask the police for help.

If I were to shoot them from 100 yards away, I would not be able to claim self defense. That would be murder.
 
vanceen said:
Are you kidding?

Generally, no. I have fences and people know that my property isn't for wandering through. If someone persisted in trespassing I would ask the police for help.

If I were to shoot them from 100 yards away, I would not be able to claim self defense. That would be murder.
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Well, there ya go. The guy couldn't get the service he was entitled to as an American citizen. In my opinion Biden is responsible.
 
Uriah said:
Do you allow people to go through your property?
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Wow, just wow, you really don't see what you are supporting, do you? To answer YOUR question, if someone went through my property I WOULD NOT KILL THEM.
There is a difference between being an killer and being a human being.
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
Wow, just wow, you really don't see what you are supporting, do you? To answer YOUR question, if someone went through my property I WOULD NOT KILL THEM.
There is a difference between being an killer and being a human being.
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What do you do if it happens every day, they are destroying your property, and your government is encouraging it?
 
Uriah said:
What do you do if it happens every day, they are destroying your property, and your government is encouraging it?
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Was any of that evident in the story above? Or are you just fishing for an excuse?
 
Uriah said:
What do you do if it happens every day, they are destroying your property, and your government is encouraging it?
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You still don't get to kill them.
 
vanceen said:
You still don't get to kill them.
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I said I don't support what he did. However, I can understand why he did it, and I hope a jury lets him go.
 
Uriah said:
Perhaps he read news reports about Illegals murdering innocent American women.
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You trying to justify his actions? Or just show cause an effect.

Either way guess what - you’re not allowed to shoot random migrants just because you’re angry at other migrants.
 
Uriah said:
Well, there ya go. The guy couldn't get the service he was entitled to as an American citizen. In my opinion Biden is responsible.
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What responsibility does the Federal Government have for protecting private land?
What responsibility does members of Congress have regarding immigration (illegal or legal)?
 
mike2810 said:
What responsibility does the Federal Government have for protecting private land?
What responsibility does members of Congress have regarding immigration (illegal or legal)?
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The President invited illegals to surge the border. Biden is responsible.
 
Uriah said:
The President invited illegals to surge the border. Biden is responsible.
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Please provide a direct quote where Biden "invited" them.

Interesting how you avoided the questions I asked.
Try again.
 
Uriah said:
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Thanks for a vid of Biden as a Candidate. You really should look at the context of his statement rather than some short sound bite.
Now do you have anything that has him saying it as President?
 
mike2810 said:
Thanks for a vid of Biden as a Candidate. You really should look at the context of his statement rather than some short sound bite.
Now do you have anything that has him saying it as President?
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He said it. Try again.
 
For what it's worth, I'll repeat that anything Biden may (or may not) have said does not justify this action.

He might have stood on the White House lawn and said, "Come on, all you immigrants, we really want you to cross the border illegally". That would be irrelevant. It would still be wrong to shoot people in the way it's described in the link.

I'm a big defender of self-defense. Anyone who is plausibly threatened with death or grievous harm has a right to act to prevent that death or harm. This situation doesn't fall into that category at all, according to the facts at hand. (If there's more to the story, I could change my mind.)

Another fairly straightforward issue hijacked by the "Your side bad!" style of debate. It seems to be becoming the norm on here. If the facts and logic of a case can't be answered, don't change your mind. Just accuse the presenter of the facts and logic of bad faith or "hypocrisy", or bring up Trump or Biden, or bring up any number of other irrelevancies that don't answer the argument presented. Rather discouraging.
 
Uriah said:
He said it. Try again.
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Yes, he did as a Candidate.

Like I said, context is important.

Biden administration as done a poor job on the southern border. Congress has been little help. They after all control the money.
 
vanceen said:
For what it's worth, I'll repeat that anything Biden may (or may not) have said does not justify this action.

He might have stood on the White House lawn and said, "Come on, all you immigrants, we really want you to cross the border illegally". That would be irrelevant. It would still be wrong to shoot people in the way it's described in the link.

I'm a big defender of self-defense. Anyone who is plausibly threatened with death or grievous harm has a right to act to prevent that death or harm. This situation doesn't fall into that category at all, according to the facts at hand. (If there's more to the story, I could change my mind.)

Another fairly straightforward issue hijacked by the "Your side bad!" style of debate. It seems to be becoming the norm on here. If the facts and logic of a case can't be answered, don't change your mind. Just accuse the presenter of the facts and logic of bad faith or "hypocrisy", or bring up Trump or Biden, or bring up any number of other irrelevancies that don't answer the argument presented. Rather discouraging.
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It's very discouraging. This tragedy is what happens when government fails to do their job. It's a very real tragedy.
 
mike2810 said:
Yes, he did as a Candidate.

Like I said, context is important.
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Agree. Biden invited illegals to surge the border. The context is as plain as Biden's dementia.
 
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