Should transwomen be legally treated as women?[W:165,1392]

[phattonez]

In mice, they found that the development of a "male" brain required the hormone testosterone over a critical period of development.

If they restrained the release of testosterone, they created male mice who were essentially able to ovulate (at least as close as you can get without having ovaries). They found that restraining the release of estrogen did not have the same effect for female mice.

In effect, the brain defaults to female. If any stimuli interrupts the hormonal balance during the development period, permanent changes to the structure of the brain can occur, changes that may imply a female brain in a male body.

Hey, look at that! It only works in development! In other words, you are stuck with the sex that you were born as.

 

[Absentglare]

Now you're just not making any sense. When have I talked about a small subset of transgenders?

You've been complaining about trans* who are in favor of exposing high school students to a sex shop.

Not all trans* support shipping kids to sex shops.

 

[Absentglare]

Hey, look at that! It only works in development! In other words, you are stuck with the sex that you were born as.

No, in other words, the opposite of what you said.

 

[Logicman]

They are men. But here's another person's opinion:

 

[BmanMcfly]

Okay.

Maybe some trans* you've interacted with have behaved poorly. They are only human. Their position is unusual and can be very difficult to deal with.

Please do not presume that all trans* views are respected by this vocal minority that you've interacted with. I understand that we naturally categorize (we are cognitive misers, lazy thinkers), and it can be difficult to separate those categories from the individuals.

From my experience, trans* are not necessarily so militant. In fact, the trans* i know best is both timid and respectful.

First, no, I have no issues with lgbtqia individually. I truly don't care. Also, the average person, gay or not just wants to live their lives.., it's those militant and vocal ones that are going to influence these issues regardless.

 

[Bodi]

I suppose asking a fat lady if she's pregnant can be innocent, but it can also be rude. I think it's fair to say that for the others as well.

I have considered your accusation, and i believe it to be reasonable. I should not have been nearly so abrasive. I sincerely regret having attacked and insulted you. I'm sorry.

Hey man, it is all good. It is easy to get abrasive over the internet and I am usually the first to do so...

 

[The Mark]

This is what this sexual liberation/progressive movement is leading to. The arguments against certain acts become less and less convincing once you've accepted the premises of the sexual liberation movement.

Adults having sex with children is unacceptable.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Adults having sex with children is unacceptable.

Right, but by making all this other sexual behaviour as, not just accepted, but promoted, and that we tolerate people for their orientation.

It may not be remembered, but when DSM-5 first came out, they had put in pedophilia as a sexual orientation, that was until groups protested so strongly that it was changed.

 

[The Mark]

Right, but by making all this other sexual behaviour as, not just accepted, but promoted, and that we tolerate people for their orientation.

It may not be remembered, but when DSM-5 first came out, they had put in pedophilia as a sexual orientation, that was until groups protested so strongly that it was changed.

Technically they were right - pedophilia IS a sexual orientation.

Only the pedophiles who ACT on that orientation are bad/committing a crime.. If a person knows it's wrong and avoids acting on their desires, all to the good.


The problem with that, of course, is that the word "pedophile" has become, in common use, a term that indicates a person who actively tries to carry out sexual acts with children.

So it probably seemed to many that they were trying to legitimize pedophilia in some way.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Technically they were right - pedophilia IS a sexual orientation.

Only the pedophiles who ACT on that orientation are bad/committing a crime.. If a person knows it's wrong and avoids acting on their desires, all to the good.


The problem with that, of course, is that the word "pedophile" has become, in common use, a term that indicates a person who actively tries to carry out sexual acts with children.

So it probably seemed to many that they were trying to legitimize pedophilia in some way.

Yes, and we already have LGBTQIA.... How long before NAMBLA gets the P recognized as one of those protected groups?

 

[instagramsci]

how long before NAMBLA gets the P recognized as one of those protected groups?

heat death of the universe

 

[The Mark]

Yes, and we already have LGBTQIA.... How long before NAMBLA gets the P recognized as one of those protected groups?

No. That is completely unacceptable. Children are unable to consent, unlike the partners of the rest of that letter list.

 

[phattonez]

You've been complaining about trans* who are in favor of exposing high school students to a sex shop.

Not all trans* support shipping kids to sex shops.

What are you even talking about now?

 

[phattonez]

No, in other words, the opposite of what you said.

How is that the opposite of what I've said?

 

[phattonez]

Adults having sex with children is unacceptable.

Born This Way: Sympathy and Science for Those Who Want to Have Sex with Children

 

[BmanMcfly]

No. That is completely unacceptable. Children are unable to consent, unlike the partners of the rest of that letter list.

So, who are you to apply your morality onto other people's desires... don't be a bigot.

(I don't believe that, but it's the same argument that has been used and will be used in the future)

 

[Absentglare]

What are you even talking about now?

Maybe i'm getting you confused with someone else.

How is that the opposite of what I've said?

The birth happened before the development of the male brain from a female default brain due to hormone levels

In other words, the gender that formed the genitalia prior to birth did not agree withe gender that formed in the brain well after birth due to hormonal stimuli

 

[Absentglare]

So, who are you to apply your morality onto other people's desires... don't be a bigot.

(I don't believe that, but it's the same argument that has been used and will be used in the future)

Having a desire does not a law break.

Acting on a desire? Sure that certainly can be illegal.

 

[The Mark]

So, who are you to apply your morality onto other people's desires... don't be a bigot.

(I don't believe that, but it's the same argument that has been used and will be used in the future)

It's a different situation entirely. Children cannot consent. Therefor they cannot have sexual relationships with adults, unless the adults force the situation. Is why such things are unacceptable both legally and morally.


Of course, there are probably a few children who ARE capable of consent, but as we don't have any way to test such things, we have to err on the side of caution, both legally and morally.

 

[phattonez]

Maybe i'm getting you confused with someone else.



The birth happened before the development of the male brain from a female default brain due to hormone levels

In other words, the gender that formed the genitalia prior to birth did not agree withe gender that formed in the brain well after birth due to hormonal stimuli

No there's already a world of difference between boys and girls even at birth. Puberty forms merely the secondary sexual characteristics. There primary sexual characteristics are there from birth. You can try to change the gender by injecting hormones after birth, but it's not going to work. You'll never see a boy given hormones then go through puberty and become a reproductive capable girl. It's impossible. You can do it before birth, sure, but that's not what we're talking about with transgenders, are we?

 

[Bodi]

Yes, and we already have LGBTQIA.... How long before NAMBLA gets the P recognized as one of those protected groups?

Never EVER happen... the almost universal front of parents understand how kids are and would never let this happen and this is on a global scale.

NOBODY will EVER agree with NAMBLA or any of their sick and perverse crap regardless of how they attempt to present it... so the point is this:

Stop with this idiotic line of reasoning...

 

[Bodi]

In my opinion, if a man is interested in raping a woman he is unlikely to care much about the symbol found on a restroom door. There may be a slightly increased probability of opportunity and temptation involved here...but the level of incident would be so low as to be irrelevant. More likely this is simply used as another excuse to hate the people who have this condition, and make their lives more difficult than they already are.

Why can't people just fess up and admit they do not like these folks because they are Icky...I find them Icky too, but do not feel my opinion should be reason for trying to hurt someone in the outside world.

There are other issues that women do not want to deal with like guys checking them out, making comments, etc. which MANY men are guilty of doing overtly on the street in front of anybody so how do you think that they will act in a private setting?

 

[Absentglare]

No there's already a world of difference between boys and girls even at birth. Puberty forms merely the secondary sexual characteristics. There primary sexual characteristics are there from birth. You can try to change the gender by injecting hormones after birth, but it's not going to work. You'll never see a boy given hormones then go through puberty and become a reproductive capable girl. It's impossible. You can do it before birth, sure, but that's not what we're talking about with transgenders, are we?

Male mice and female mice have different brains. Scientists found that, after birth, male mice can have testosterone restricted and subsequently develop a female brain.

You're right that the hormones don't change the genitalia. They can change the brain. When the brain and the genitalia mismatch, it is extremely difficult to grow up in our culture.

 

[phattonez]

Male mice and female mice have different brains. Scientists found that, after birth, male mice can have testosterone restricted and subsequently develop a female brain.

You're right that the hormones don't change the genitalia. They can change the brain. When the brain and the genitalia mismatch, it is extremely difficult to grow up in our culture.

That's not how I read your description of the study, nor do I think you have provided a link. Either way, the rest of the body does not conform, thus this ought to call into question whether we should be giving out hormones to the gender dysphoric.

 

[tecoyah]

There are other issues that women do not want to deal with like guys checking them out, making comments, etc. which MANY men are guilty of doing overtly on the street in front of anybody so how do you think that they will act in a private setting?

I would hope they would act like "MEN" rather than the animals you seem to indicate they are. However...those who want to be women probably have less inclination to hit on women in the first place...I would be more worried about a trans woman wanting to play with mine.