School disrupted Because a boy "feels like a girl".

[Henrin]

Opposite day.

Yes, every time this discussion of transgenders comes up the right answer according to you is the exact opposite of what common sense tells us.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Yes, every time this discussion of transgenders comes up the right answer according to you is the exact opposite of what common sense tells us.

Who defines "common sense"?

 

[Henrin]

Who defines "common sense"?

Not you.

 

[Captain Adverse]

They're kids, not adults, how they feel is how they feel.

How they feel is not inherent...it's how they've been taught to feel. The children raised in those countries where nudity isn't considered automatically offensive don't typically have much problem with it either.

Funny thing that. Do you know why showering is no longer mandated in schools? It's pretty fun to ignore how kids feel, isn't it? I suppose when one kid thinks he is a girl then everyone else's feelings are moot and there is something wrong with them. You know, ignoring that the kid thinks he is in the wrong body.

Well growing up in the era where showering was required, and then stopped being required, I'd say there were many reasons for it beyond the fact some FEW kids had been raised to be ashamed of their sinful bodies.

Of course, another factor back then was bullying, which this transgender kid of today was probably trying to avoid when he opted to change in some faculty room.

Perhaps he was seeking acceptance from his future peers by attempting to do it in the ladies dressing room?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Not you.

Apparently not you either. :shrug:

 

[Henrin]

How they feel is not inherent...it's how they've been taught to feel. The children raised in those countries where nudity isn't considered automatically offensive don't typically have much problem with it either.

Sigh. You didn't answer my question. Why did schools end mandatory showering policies? Why are showers all over the country dry? This isn't some other country, we don't have their culture, and it's not right to force things on children for one kids sake. Oh and btw, no one teaches this. It is actually natural to feel uneasy with nudity when you don't grow up around it.

Well growing up in the era where showering was required, and then stopped being required, I'd say there were many reasons for it beyond the fact some FEW kids had been raised to be ashamed of their sinful bodies.

Sigh. And that reason was? Oh and btw, many kids in your era felt uneasy about it.

Of course, another factor back then was bullying, which this transgender kid of today was probably trying to avoid when he opted to change it in some faculty room.

Yes, bullying exists and that was indeed a factor, but it wasn't the reason the policy was ended. Btw, the transgendered boy probably doesn't shower.

Perhaps he was seeking acceptance form his future peers by attempting to do it in the ladies dressing room?

Perhaps he was barking up a tree.

 

[Henrin]

Apparently not you either. :shrug:

Except my answer is backed up facts and yours isn't. The boys locker room is for males and the girls locker room is for females. He is a male that feels like a female. The best course of action was to have him in a separate area, not to force him on girls that we know aren't comfortable with it.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Sigh. You didn't answer my question. Why did schools end mandatory showering policies? Why are showers all over the country dry? This isn't some other country, we don't have their culture, and it's not right to force things on children for one kids sake.

I believe I did answer your question, or did you miss this part?

Well growing up in the era where showering was required, and then stopped being required, I'd say there were many reasons for it beyond the fact some FEW kids had been raised to be ashamed of their sinful bodies.

What is the ONE reason you wish to emphasize?

And that reason was? Oh and btw, even kids in your era felt uneasy about it.

Nope, don't see your answer there...

Yes, bullying exists and that was indeed a factor, but it wasn't the reason the policy was ended.

Nope, no definitive answer there either....


Well maybe your next response will be clearer...I'm waiting with baited breath.

 

[Henrin]

I believe I did answer your question, or did you miss this part?



What is the ONE reason you wish to emphasize?





Nope, don't see your answer there...





Nope, no definitive answer there either....


Well maybe your next response will be clearer...I'm waiting with baited breath.

You didn't answer it. I also don't need to answer the question since I asked you the question.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You didn't answer it. I also don't need to answer the question since I asked you the question.

I provided the correct answer since there is no "ONE" reason.

In a striking measure of changed sensibilities in school and society, showering after physical education class, once an almost military ritual, has become virtually extinct. And the reasons seem as varied as insecurities about body image, heightened sexual awareness and a lack of time in a busy school schedule.

Students Still Sweat, They Just Don't Shower - NYTimes.com

That's just from a youth perspective.

There were also issues of the spread of parasitic and disease vectors (i.e. head lice, measles, etc.), school costs (water bills, towel cleaning, etc.), among others beyond bullying and shyness.

Sooo, I ask again, what is the ONE reason that YOU wish to emphasize? :waiting:

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Except my answer is backed up facts and yours isn't. The boys locker room is for males and the girls locker room is for females. He is a male that feels like a female. The best course of action was to have him in a separate area, not to force him on girls that we know aren't comfortable with it.

Opposite day again.

 

[Henrin]

I provided the correct answer since there is no "ONE" reason.

Students Still Sweat, They Just Don't Shower - NYTimes.com

That's just from a youth perspective.

And that is why I brought it up. Your entire view point here doesn't care what the kids feel, and In fact, you criticize the kids and demand they get over it. You do this all so that a very small percentage of kids can feel better about themselves, and by doing so ignore the majority of the kids. This is the view you actually think is superior to mine. Back in the day the supporters of mandatory showering would in fact argue that the kids just needed to get over it and deal with being forced to be naked around others. Notice anything similar about your views and theirs?

Oh and btw, the argument that other countries do it doesn't mean anything. You are still forcing your views on the kids and ignoring their feelings.

 

[Henrin]

Opposite day again.

Nope. The individual in question is in fact a male and he was in fact in the girls locker room.

 

[Captain Adverse]

And that is why I brought it up. Your entire view point here doesn't care what the kids feel, and In fact, you criticize the kids and demand they get over it. You do this all so that a very small percentage of kids can feel better about themselves, and by doing so ignore the majority of the kids. This is the view you actually think is superior to mine. Back in the day the supporters of mandatory showering would in fact argue that the kids just needed to get over it and deal with being forced to be naked around others. Notice anything similar about your views and theirs?

Oh and btw, the argument that other countries do it doesn't mean anything. You are still forcing your views on the kids and ignoring their feelings.

My views come from being a kid who showered in school up until they stopped it. Most of my peers didn't care. In grade school no big deal. In high school the biggest deal as a male was not having pubic hair as a freshman back then, and I went through that phase too. Then you grow out of it and shower. Big deal.

What were our concerns about being forced to shower? The same as the article; worry about getting a boner for no damn reason except puberty, not enough time to shower and dress to get to class, etc.

IMO we should adopt an ideology common to many foreign cultures, mandatory military service at 18. I can tell you from personal experience it not only develops character, discipline, and fitness; you also get over body shyness most ricky-tic.

 

[Josie]

I'm a teacher, but I identify as an administrator. Therefore, I should be paid a 6-figure salary, right?

 

[Henrin]

My views come from being a kid who showered in school up until they stopped it. Most of my peers didn't care. In grade school no big deal. In high school the biggest deal as a male was not having pubic hair as a freshman back then, and I went through that phase too. Then you grow out of it and shower. Big deal.

What were our concerns about being forced to shower? The same as the article; worry about getting a boner for no damn reason except puberty, not enough time to shower and dress to get to class, etc.

IMO we should adopt an ideology common to many foreign cultures, mandatory military service at 18. I can tell you from personal experience it not only develops character, discipline, and fitness; you also get over body shyness most ricky-tic.

You just flat out lied, you know. The article you provided said people sent letters about their times showering under such policy that reflected they clearly had a problem with it. It also provided an expert view on showering that literally said the exact opposite of what you did about body image.

Oh and btw, I know plenty of people that are in their fifties that also disagree with you. Ask my mother about it and she will tell you how much you're wrong. She was runner up in the Miss America Pageant, so she was and still is very attractive, so don't try that route. To say that kids just got used to it and were fine with it is a flat out stupid lie.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You just flat out lied, you know. The article you provided said people sent letters about their times showering under such policy that reflected they clearly had a problem with it. It also provided an expert view on showering that literally said the exact opposite of what you did about body image.

Oh and btw, I know plenty of people that are in their fifties that also disagree with you. Ask my mother about it and she will tell you how much you're wrong. She was runner up in the Miss America Pageant, so she was and still is very attractive, so don't try that route.

If you expect to ever get any further responses from me you need to tone down your extreme rhetoric.

I made no absolute statements of FACT, which would constitute a lie. I offered my opinion on MY experiences during the "shower age." What is YOUR evidence that MY experiences were a "lie?"

 

[Henrin]

If you expect to ever get any further responses from me you need to tone down your extreme rhetoric.

I made no absolute statements of FACT, which would constitute a lie. I offered my opinion on MY experiences during the "shower age." What is YOUR evidence that MY experiences were a "lie?"

You might have gotten over it, but most did not and if you ever bother to look over testimonies you will see just how strongly they felt about it. The reason the policy disappeared is because people demanded it. The reason it stays gone is because of lawsuits and it's not lawsuits over health concerns.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You might have gotten over it, but most did not and if you ever bother to look over testimonies you will see just how wrong you are.

Excuse me...and what is YOUR EVIDENCE that MOST people did not get over it? Seriously dude, your the one making wild claims of fact here. Testimonies?

Whatever.

 

[Henrin]

Excuse me...and what is YOUR EVIDENCE that MOST people did not get over it? Seriously dude, your the one making wild claims of fact here. Testimonies?

Whatever.

Look at your own source. Do you see any sign of support in there?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Look at your own source. Besides the one dude who else mentioned agreed with the policy? No one. The dude was actually just like you and surprised by all the people that opposed it due to past experiences. Funny that.

That article is from 1996. It's talking about relatively current viewpoints about showering in school, in an era where it is no longer typical. If you look at the comments from the teachers in my age group, when it WAS typical...what do they say that differs from my experience?

Even the person you quote from the ACLU who claims he was "deluged" with calls and letters...why not write and ask him what he considers "deluged" to mean...hundreds? Thousands? I never said no one was humiliated, if you recall I mentioned my own lack of pubic hair period and the puberty thing, which like most men I got over. (I can't speak for women. )

In any case my original opinion still stands. People need to stop fearing nudity, it is the human condition and does not automatically signal the threat of sex.

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't like how all of the students walked out because of this issue. I looks like it's all of the students against one.

Why should all ofthe students have to deal with this?

 

[SheWolf]

Why should all ofthe students have to deal with this?

All of the students were not dealing with it. It was just the girls using the locker room the same time the transsexual is using it.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

I don't like how all of the students walked out because of this issue. I looks like it's all of the students against one.

The one violating the girls sense of comfort for his own ego is the one who made it him vs everyone hes trying to shock or "convert". If parents got caught sanctioning a male and female teenager showering in the same showers their kids would probably be taken away. Its different when kids go and hide and break the rules. But the rules shouldnt inherently include "allow bisexual males to creep into the showers legally".

 

[dirtpoorchris]

How they feel is not inherent...it's how they've been taught to feel. The children raised in those countries where nudity isn't considered automatically offensive don't typically have much problem with it either.



Well growing up in the era where showering was required, and then stopped being required, I'd say there were many reasons for it beyond the fact some FEW kids had been raised to be ashamed of their sinful bodies.

Of course, another factor back then was bullying, which this transgender kid of today was probably trying to avoid when he opted to change in some faculty room.

Perhaps he was seeking acceptance from his future peers by attempting to do it in the ladies dressing room?

Taking away the choice is inherently evil and should generally be reserved for last stitch situations.