Most Dishonest person running for President?

[ChezC3]

HRC -- there is no doubt, dishonesty personified.

Sanders -- Not that I know of

Carson -- I'm a killer! No, really, I am!

Jeb -- Dada, they won't bring up S&L, will they?

Marco -- Gang (of 8) Banger

Cruz -- Too smart for his own good. ¿Entienda?

Trump -- I say what I mean and I mean what I say but I really didn't mean that...but I am selling the purest, uncut Patriotism on the market, so everyone is buying...

 

[ChezC3]

SO your dislike of Cruz is not based on anything factual.

Yeah, this whole liar liar pants on fire thing is a bit confusing.

 

[jamesrage]

The question is pointless.

It is impossible to know how honest someone is unless they admit they are lying.

And since I assume none of the candidates will EVER admit they are lying, it is impossible (by definition) to know who monster them is the 'most dishonest'

You might as well debate about which one hates liver the most...it's virtually impossible to know.

No its not. If they are saying one thing one minute and the next minute saying the opposite then it is apparent they are lying. For example Trump saying "I like so so and so, he is a good person,and a competent person" and then shortly after saying the complete opposite. Or Clinton saying she opposed this and that and later claiming that her opposition was a ploy.

 

[DA60]

No its not. If they are saying one thing one minute and the next minute saying the opposite then it is apparent they are lying. For example Trump saying "I like so so and so, he is a good person,and a competent person" and then shortly after saying the complete opposite.

No...by definition, lying only exists when there is 'intent to deceive'. And unless you know the person's intent, you cannot know they are lying...they can always claim they just changed their mind and you cannot realistically know they are lying.

You can believe, hope or assume they ar lying, but you CANNOT know unless they admit it...by definition.

Lie | Define Lie at Dictionary.com

If you disagree, please take it up with the people who write dictionaries.

 

[jet57]

Ted Cruz is up to no good, you can tell that by watching him.

 

[Quag]

Treid to vote but it only lets you pick 1

 

[jamesrage]

No...by definition, lying only exists when there is 'intent to deceive'. And unless you know the person's intent, you cannot know they are lying...they can always claim they just changed their mind and you cannot realistically know they are lying.

You can believe, hope or assume they ar lying, but you CANNOT know unless they admit it...by definition.

Lie | Define Lie at Dictionary.com

If you disagree, please take it up with the people who write dictionaries.

That is not the only definition of lie.The definition of lying does not rely solely on what someone's intention were.Lying does not only exist when there is intent to deceive.

Lie | Define Lie at Dictionary.com

an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

to express what is false; convey a false impression.

 

[DA60]

That is not the only definition of lie.The definition of lying does not rely solely on what someone's intention were.Lying does not only exist when there is intent to deceive.

Lie | Define Lie at Dictionary.com

an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

to express what is false; convey a false impression.

One...the first two definitions include intent.

Two...one cannot be lying by stating an inaccurate statement if they truly believe the statement is accurate.

Yes or no please...if I say it is sunny outside (because I last looked outside 10 minutes ago and it was sunny) even though it is now cloudy...am I lying if I sincerely believe it is sunny?

 

[Bucky]

Ted Cruz is up to no good, you can tell that by watching him.

Like he's going to steal a car?

 

[jamesrage]

One...the first two definitions include intent.

And some of the others do not include intent.

Two...one cannot be lying by stating an inaccurate statement if they truly believe the statement is accurate.

Wrong.

an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Yes or no please...if I say it is sunny outside (because I last looked outside 10 minutes ago and it was sunny) even though it is now cloudy...am I lying if I sincerely believe it is sunny?

No. Its not the same thing as saying you totally believe this or that and then sometime later try to back track to say that you really didn't believe that, it was ploy to stop something else. For example this.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-marriage-amendment-to-the-u-s-constitution/

 

[jet57]

Like he's going to steal a car?

(chuckle)

good one

Nahh, he's got an agenda that he ain't tellin people. He's used deception in his campaign fundraising, he;s avoid his Canadian birth - which certainly IS an issue and he keeps yackin about Trump. Trump is not an issue, he's an attention whore out promoting his brand.

Cruz is hidin stuff.

 

[jamesrage]

Like he's going to steal a car?

Maybe he doesn't like Texans of Cuban decent.

 

[jamesrage]

(chuckle)

good one

Nahh, he's got an agenda that he ain't tellin people. He's used deception in his campaign fundraising, he;s avoid his Canadian birth - which certainly IS an issue and he keeps yackin about Trump. Trump is not an issue, he's an attention whore out promoting his brand.

Cruz is hidin stuff.

So you have no evidence of wrong doing on Cruz's part.

 

[jet57]

So you have no evidence of wrong doing on Cruz's part.

When did I mention wrong doing?

 

[Crusdr57]

Democrats: Hillary Clinton hands down.

Republicans: Probably Ben Carson with Ted Cruz a close second

Overall: Hillary. In all honesty I do not know how she can sleep at night. She has betrayed so many in her base. She lies about lying. One of the most dishonest politicians ever!

"She lies about lying." :lol: :lol: I voted HRC, but it's a tough choice w/ this group. I'm sure she sleeps well at nite, since she "tries not to lie..."

Does simply evading the question altogether count as lying?

ALL politicians are liars, and ALL were once Lawyers. I voted HRC as her list of lies is endless...see Bengazi, (and links) and the US' gun-running program from Libya to 'Turkey' (read as Syria).

US Was Smuggling Guns to Syria Through Benghazi Consulate | The Federalist Papers

CNN confirms WND reporting on gun-running in Benghazi

Actually I think Donald is too honest. He may backtrack but IMO Ted and Hillary are much worse. They were lawyers so they have professional experience in lying.

Rubio probably lies but IMO he has not mastered that ability to the degree Ted and Hillary have.

Donald is too honest compared to who??? ...the rest of this group?!? He's been flip-flopping and denying his earlier lies.

 

[DA60]

And some of the others do not include intent.

Wrong.

an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

to express what is false; convey a false impression.


No. Its not the same thing as saying you totally believe this or that and then sometime later try to back track to say that you really didn't believe that, it was ploy to stop something else. For example this.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-marriage-amendment-to-the-u-s-constitution/

Oh come on now.

The last two definitions are clearly just add ons. The first one or two definitions of a word are always the primary definitions...that should go without saying.
You admit yourself that you are not lying just by making an innacurate statement.

Can you prove with 100% certainty that a candidate has lied about something (if they do not a admit it). Yes or no?

 

[jamesrage]

Oh come on now.

The last two definitions are clearly just add ons. The first one or two definitions of a word are always the primary definitions...that should go without saying.

The last two definitions are not just add ons.

You admit yourself that you are not lying just by making an innacurate statement.

Your example is false because the sun was shining at the time you claimed it was sunny.However if you stepped outside and saw that it was sunny and claimed it was raining you would be lying regardless if you intended to deceive or not.

Can you prove with 100% certainty that a candidate has lied about something (if they do not a admit it). Yes or no?

You prove they lied by what they said.Those examples have already been proven to you.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Landing under sniper fire, is the all time best Hillary lie.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I guess Hillary, followed closely by Donald.

 

[DA60]

The last two definitions are not just add ons.

Sorry, they clearly were. But whatever.

Your example is false because the sun was shining at the time you claimed it was sunny.However if you stepped outside and saw that it was sunny and claimed it was raining you would be lying regardless if you intended to deceive or not.

Are you serious? My example was NOT that.

For the last time...

If I am in a room with no windows and I came inside 20 minutes earlier when it was sunny. And someone asks me while I am still inside the windowless room if it is sunny outside. If I say it was sunny (because I believe it is as the last time I looked outside it was) - even though it became cloudy since I went inside - am I lying....Yes or no?

You prove they lied by what they said.Those examples have already been proven to you.

You did not answer my question.

Can you prove with 100% certainty that they were lying and did not just change their mind on an issue?

Yes or no, please?

Not do you believe they did...vpcan you prove it with 100% certainty?

 

[jamesrage]

Sorry, they clearly were. But whatever.

Definitions have more than one meaning. A lie is false statement

Are you serious? My example was NOT that.

For the last time...

If I am in a room with no windows and I came inside 20 minutes earlier when it was sunny. And someone asks me while I am still inside the windowless room if it is sunny outside. If I say it was sunny (because I believe it is as the last time I looked outside it was) - even though it became cloudy since I went inside - am I lying....Yes or no?

Your example is not even comparable because its based on what you saw at the time.

You did not answer my question.

Can you prove with 100% certainty that they were lying and did not just change their mind on an issue?

Yes or no, please?

Not do you believe they did...vpcan you prove it with 100% certainty?

Yes you can prove someone lied by what they said. I provided you with examples. You can not honestly sit there and say that Trump isn't lying when he says he likes someone, thinks that person is competent, and then practically immediately later say the complete opposite.You can not sit there and honestly say Hillary was telling the truth when she said she was under sniper fire when clearly she wasn't.

 

[DA60]

Definitions have more than one meaning. A lie is false statement





Your example is not even comparable because its based on what you saw at the time.

If they say it is sunny (in this example) is it a lie...yes or no?


If you cannot even answer this simple question...then please stop wasting my time with this.

If the answer is no, then it proves that including simple innacurate statements as lies is erroneous. He stated it was sunny, because he thought it was. But it was not, so it was an 'innacurate' statement (as it is now cloudy). So if that is not a lie, then the add on definition you included is not accurate as they said a lie can be a simple innacurate statement...which is wrong.

That would mean everytime someone is asked a question in school and gives an answer that is wrong (even though they thought it was right), that they are lying. That is ridiculous.

Yes you can prove someone lied by what they said. I provided you with examples. You can not honestly sit there and say that Trump isn't lying when he says he likes someone, thinks that person is competent, and then practically immediately later say the complete opposite.You can not sit there and honestly say Hillary was telling the truth when she said she was under sniper fire when clearly she wasn't.

I cannot say he lied. I can say I believe he lied (if I thought that). But I cannot honestly say he lied since I do not know that he intended to deceive.
People are allowed to change their minds you know.

You don't believe me? Then take out an add in your local paper and state that some famous person lied about something that they did not admit they lied about. And do it over and over again. Eventually, they will probably sue you as you cannot go around saying someone lied without factual proof...that is usually actionable.

Now, you can say you think they lied or you believe they lied. But you cannot just go around publicly calling people liars without factual proof and not have a reasonabl chance of eventually being sued.

 

[jamesrage]

If they say it is sunny (in this example) is it a lie...yes or no?


If you cannot even answer this simple question...then please stop wasting my time with this.

The question isn't even comparable. Hillary Clinton said she was under sniper fire. It was proven that never happened.How was she not lying?

I cannot say he lied. I can say I believe he lied (if I thought that). But I cannot honestly say he lied since I do not know that he intended to deceive.
People are allowed to change their minds you know.

How is saying you had your lawyers looked into a issue and said it was good and that person is a good person only a short time later claim the opposite because that person you first said nice things about is now climbing up in the polls? How do you change your mind on saying you were under sniper fire?

 

[99percenter]

Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz. They can't stop lying about trump.

 

[DA60]

The question isn't even comparable. Hillary Clinton said she was under sniper fire. It was proven that never happened.How was she not lying?




How is saying you had your lawyers looked into a issue and said it was good and that person is a good person only a short time later claim the opposite because that person you first said nice things about is now climbing up in the polls? How do you change your mind on saying you were under sniper fire?

If you are not going to even answer simple questions, I am not wasting any more energy on you over this.

No hard feelings...we just disagree on this.


Good day.