Missouri Lawmaker Wants To Revoke Scholarships If Athletes Protest

[sangha]

The government isn't dictating the terms of a scholarship.

Yes they are. It's what the thread is about

They are dictating the terms that the college may accept/refuse/revoke a scholarship.

Colleges don't recieve scholarships so there's nothing for them to accept/refuse/revoke

Besides, so what if they were dictating to organizations that give out scholarships or even private individuals that give out scholarships. They are just as subject to rules and regulations and laws as any other organization.

In reality, people are allowed to give their own money to students to pay for their tuition without the govt telling them what they have to do

And if the government can legally require private individuals to buy products from private organizations I see no reason that they can't legally require this of organizations or private individuals that give out scholarships.

And now you're using an argument you don't actually believe even though it really has nothing to do with this topic. The govt is not trying to force the school or the students or the scholarship funders to buy any product.

In fact there is more precedence for this type of law than that of requiring private individuals to buy products from private organizations. There are tons of laws and regulations requiring businesses and even charities to be fair in their respective practices often requiring them to make sure that they aren't selling or giving out "snake oil" and that they instead sell or give out reliable products. And (in this particular case) a student that doesn't perform on the football field for reasons other than health even though they got a scholarship for it is a bad product.

The govt has the right to regulate commerce. A scholarship is not a product and is not commerce.

You're grasping at straws here and it shows

 

[sangha]

For gawdsake - call the financial office of any university and ask how their donor funds are allotted to sports' scholarships.

This isn't some big secret. :roll:

If this thread continues on this path - it should be moved to the "Conspiracy Theory" forum.

If you want to post some evidence that what you say is true, go right ahead

Until then, you're posting bull crap

 

[sangha]

If you are getting paid to do something and you refuse to go to work because you want to protest your employer he is not going to pay you for the time that you are refusing to do what you are contracted to do. Life sucks sometimes but those are the facts.

There is no work contract here.

Your analogy sucks

 

[NonoBadDog]

There is no work contract here.

Your analogy sucks

Do you know for a fact that no agreement was made as to performance conditions for the award of the athletic scholarship?

 

[sangha]

Do you know for a fact that no agreement was made as to performance conditions for the award of the athletic scholarship?

If there was such an agreement, then their scholarships would have been revoked.

They werent revoked. Ergo, no such agreement.

 

[NonoBadDog]

If there was such an agreement, then their scholarships would have been revoked.

They werent revoked. Ergo, no such agreement.

I guess you missed the part in the OP where they were threatening to "revoke" the scholarships. Ergo, an there was an agreement. That is a pretty big part of the OP to miss. It is the central issue of this thread, the suggested revocation. So that puts us right back where we were a post ago.

Do you know for a fact that no agreement was made as to performance conditions for the award of the athletic scholarship?

 

[HowardBThiname]

If you want to post some evidence that what you say is true, go right ahead

Until then, you're posting bull crap

I donate annually to my alma mater, and I know my options as to where my money goes. My donations are tax deductible, and I am allowed to include "restrictions" as to a specific "project" or "scholarship fund," but were I to try to pick and choose who the tennis coach benches or allows to play - my money would sit, unused.

I could give money directly to a student, I supposed, but it would not be deductible and the student would have to pay income taxes on any amount over $14K.

It's apparent that you do not know how this works, and that's okay, but do as I asked and call the financial office at your local university and find out for yourself. A quick call and you'll never be guessing about this again.

Donors do NOT get to decide who plays and who is punished on any college sports' team , and they do NOT directly fund scholarships. It just doesn't happen and I'd like to challenge you to show me any school that will override the college's/coach's decisions for the wishes of a donor.

 

[sangha]

I guess you missed the part in the OP where they were threatening to "revoke" the scholarships. Ergo, an there was an agreement. That is a pretty big part of the OP to miss. It is the central issue of this thread, the suggested revocation. So that puts us right back where we were a post ago.

Do you know for a fact that no agreement was made as to performance conditions for the award of the athletic scholarship?

So you have no proof that there was such an agreement.

In addition, if there was I would have no problem with it. After all, if that's how the donors want their money to be spent, it's OK with me but, then again, I'm not a rightwing statist who wants the govt to dictate agreements between individuals

 

[sangha]

I donate annually to my alma mater, and I know my options as to where my money goes. My donations are tax deductible, and I am allowed to include "restrictions" as to a specific "project" or "scholarship fund," but were I to try to pick and choose who the tennis coach benches or allows to play - my money would sit, unused.

I could give money directly to a student, I supposed, but it would not be deductible and the student would have to pay income taxes on any amount over $14K.

It's apparent that you do not know how this works, and that's okay, but do as I asked and call the financial office at your local university and find out for yourself. A quick call and you'll never be guessing about this again.

Donors do NOT get to decide who plays and who is punished on any college sports' team , and they do NOT directly fund scholarships. It just doesn't happen and I'd like to challenge you to show me any school that will override the college's/coach's decisions for the wishes of a donor.

So you still have no evidence about the restrictions for this scholarship

 

[HowardBThiname]

So you still have no evidence about the restrictions for this scholarship

I've told you everything you need to know. That you refuse to verify what I said is totally on you.

You cease to interest me. I typically debate only with those who are intellectually honest.

Have a nice day.

 

[NonoBadDog]

So you have no proof that there was such an agreement.

In addition, if there was I would have no problem with it. After all, if that's how the donors want their money to be spent, it's OK with me but, then again, I'm not a rightwing statist who wants the govt to dictate agreements between individuals

I guess it is your contention that an athletic scholarship isn't awarded for playing. Some guy says, "Hey, I am athletic. I should apply for a scholarship." They apply for it and then someone walks up and says, "Yep, you look athletic. Here is a wad of cash. We don't expect anything other than you continue to look athletic." There are always requirements to athletic scholarships. GPA and athletic performance are two big requirements.

Here are some of the requirements from the Missouri web site:

Aldo A. Sebben Athletics Scholarship
Established Date: May 27, 2000
Scholarships will be awarded annually to students enrolled at Missouri State University who are members of the Bears Football team. Scholarships will be awarded to football student-athletes who have completed two years of eligibility and have a 2.5 grade point average. Recipients must be enrolled in at least 12 hours each semester.
Renewable: May be renewed automatically as long as the student-athletes maintain satisfactory academic progress and are members of the Bears Football team.

[h=3]Arthur W. Briggs Award[/h] This fund provides for one award annually and is based on character, athletic ability, academics, and performance.

[h=3]Harold "Speedo" Harmon Football Scholarship[/h] Income from this scholarship fund will be used to provide scholarships for members of the Missouri State University football team.

[h=3]John Reed Memorial Athletics Scholarship[/h] Established Date: February 21, 1997
Established By: Mr. John Reed
Scholarship(s) will be awarded annually to a student(s) enrolled at Missouri State University who is a member of the intercollegiate Football Team.
Renewable: May be renewed automatically as long as the student maintains satisfactory academic progress and is a member of the intercollegiate football team.

[h=3]Mark Christensen Endowed Scholarship[/h] Established By: Mark Christensen
This endowed fund will provide scholarships for members of the Missouri State University football team.

Football - Missouri State University Official Athletic Site

 

[sangha]

you refuse to verify what I said

You've got it completely bass ackwards. It's *your* job to prove what you say is true.

Demanding I do your job is intellectually dishonest

 

[sangha]

I guess it is your contention that an athletic scholarship isn't awarded for playing.

When a rightwinger is stumped, and can't back up their claims, making up "guesses" (aka "lies") about what someone else said is often SOP

And the examples you posted only require the recipient be a member of the team. It says nothing about them being required to play

 

[NonoBadDog]

When a rightwinger is stumped, and can't back up their claims, making up "guesses" (aka "lies") about what someone else said is often SOP

And the examples you posted only require the recipient be a member of the team. It says nothing about them being required to play

You know it isn't a lie. You got your ass in a crack and can't get out because your argument is ludicrous and you know it. They call it an "Athletic Scholarship" because there are requirements and expectations that are expected for that scholarship, thus the label "Athletic Scholarship" and not "Deadbeat Scholarship". So many other people have told you as much. I guess it was expecting too much to hope for an honest discussion with you. Your ludicrous argument is that they don't have ANY expectations for the money, healthcare and all the benefits that come ONLY with an athletic scholarship.

 

[sangha]

You know it isn't a lie. You got your ass in a crack and can't get out because your argument is ludicrous and you know it. They call it an "Athletic Scholarship" because there are requirements and expectations that are expected for that scholarship, thus the label "Athletic Scholarship" and not "Deadbeat Scholarship". So many other people have told you as much. I guess it was expecting too much to hope for an honest discussion with you. Your ludicrous argument is that they don't have ANY expectations for the money, healthcare and all the benefits that come ONLY with an athletic scholarship.

So your argument is the state has to pass a law saying that athletic scholarships must require the recipients to play because athletic scholarships already do require the recipients to play

Yeah, that makes sense! :roll:

 

[NonoBadDog]

So your argument is the state has to pass a law saying that athletic scholarships must require the recipients to play because athletic scholarships already do require the recipients to play

Yeah, that makes sense! :roll:

I'm done with you. If you can't post even remotely honestly then forget it.

 

[sangha]

I'm done with you. If you can't post even remotely honestly then forget it.

I accept your surrender!!

 

[HowardBThiname]

I accept your surrender!!

LOL

That has got to be one of the most childish things I've heard in a long time. Keep claiming victory -- the adults in the room know better.

 

[sangha]

LOL

That has got to be one of the most childish things I've heard in a long time.

That's only because you haven't known me for very long.

 

[HowardBThiname]

That's only because you haven't known me for very long.

I don't care who you are -- that was funny.

And there is nothing I like so well as humor.

Well played.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

I think the motive here is to get players to play, which is what they signed up for. Athletic scholarship would imply that they got a scholarship if they played. If they want a scholarship for playing then that is what they said they would do, play. Hell, I don't get compensation for playing. I get my ass chewed by the wife for not working. I wish I could get paid for playing.

This is such disingenuous bull****. Those "kids playing" are making millions of dollars for their schools to the point that the schools prioritize athletics departments over academic departments.

If they want to go on strike to protest the behavior of the schools, they should have the same job protection as other striking workers.

 

[NonoBadDog]

This is such disingenuous bull****. Those "kids playing" are making millions of dollars for their schools to the point that the schools prioritize athletics departments over academic departments.

If they want to go on strike to protest the behavior of the schools, they should have the same job protection as other striking workers.

On their own time, yeah. Refusing to practice or play, nope. They aren't union employees. The same laws don't apply. You might think they should but opinion doesn't mean squat in court.

 

[reinoe]

I guess it is your contention that an athletic scholarship isn't awarded for playing. Some guy says, "Hey, I am athletic. I should apply for a scholarship." They apply for it and then someone walks up and says, "Yep, you look athletic. Here is a wad of cash. We don't expect anything other than you continue to look athletic." There are always requirements to athletic scholarships. GPA and athletic performance are two big requirements.

Here are some of the requirements from the Missouri web site:



Football - Missouri State University Official Athletic Site

All of those scholarships require being on a team. Have any of the players renounced their positions on the team? No, they're just not playing. It could be that if this kept up the team would be disbanded but that hasn't happened.Another fail on your part.

 

[NonoBadDog]

All of those scholarships require being on a team. Have any of the players renounced their positions on the team? No, they're just not playing. It could be that if this kept up the team would be disbanded but that hasn't happened.Another fail on your part.

You haven't proven that making practice and playing isn't a condition of their scholarship. Fail is on you.

 

[reinoe]

You haven't proven that making practice and playing isn't a condition of their scholarship. Fail is on you.

They're your links. You're trying to create a Russell's Teapot scenario. Your links discredit your claim. What you're demanding is that I provide information that doesn't even exist. The reason? The details of the scholarship are public unless you're now assuming there are private details to the scholarships that are not available. Your litmus test is getting progressively more ridiculous. Just concede defeat here. Unless it comes out that these students are losing their scholarships for NOT PLAYING then you've got nothing.